What else should I do while I have my TJ apart?

[AustinJeepTJ]

Hi. First time post on the TJ forum, so, thanks for having me and sorry for the long post. I bought my 03 sport back in May and have been lurking here ever since. It is great to have this community as a resource. So, much thanks and much love, as always, to the Jeep community. Previously, I spent most of my time on the KJ forums but rarely posted there as most of the questions I have had, have been asked once or many times before.

I am soliciting some opinions here so any input would be much appreciated. I am having a bit of "well, while you're there…" syndrome in regards to some of the decisions I want to make.

My goal for my TJ is 'highly capable trail' more than rock crawler, I think. I already feel like my TJ is pretty capable. Extremely capable. (I even feel that way with the KJ). I love the TJ.

The TJ seems pretty stock. It has, what looks like, a cheaper, spacer based lift and is running 33's. The only things I have done to it are fluid changes all around and I replaced the LED headlights with some KC H4's. I also added a CB so I could talk to the group out on the trails.

My high level, short term (year or so), priority list is as follows:

1. Safety and recovery (this phase is done for now, minus the winch)
2. Rock sliders
3. Front locker
4. Winch

Suspension later. And long term, I have been dreaming of a TDI or 2BT diesel swap. The 4.0l has 195k on it and has been very well taken care of from what I can see. There was one other owner and it looks like this TJ was towed most of it's life. I have an optimistic perception based on what I see that I can probably get another 100k out of this engine. The NV3550 was replaced at 150k, according to the previous owner and it does indeed look newer than the engine and NP231.

I have been hung up on sliders for a while. I have been wishy washy on drilling the body and realized that, because I am not really attacking boulder fields as much as narrow, tree lined trails, I can get away with the Quadratec QRC Rocker Guards, if for nothing else, to push and pivot around those trees.

The decision on the rocker guard/slider has allowed me to start planning the locker upgrade. Originally, I had put Dana 44 on my priority list to replace the Dana 30. I am not sure that is a priority anymore based on what I have read here and what I really want to do. Maybe one day, the TJ will see a Dana 60 front and back upgrade sometime after the diesel, but who knows. Anyway, after some very challenging but convincing trail rides here in the Washington and British Columbia cascades, combined with the aforementioned reading on this forum, I think the Dana 30 is a well enough platform for me to build up to support all future adventures.

So, my current drivetrain plan is:

1. Front Locker
   1. Ox locker, manual, 30 spline
   2. 5.13 regear, ring and pinion. Looking at the Revolution regear Kit
2. Front Chromoly 30 spline axle upgrade
   1. Ox sells the shafts also
   2. I am not convinced the CV axles are that much of a better option given, again my perception, the ability to trail fix a u-joint.
3. Front unit bearing hub replacement
4. Front and rear drive shaft u-joint replacement
5. Front steering (Crown HD)
6. Front knuckle ball joints
7. Rear 5.13 regear
   1. I am planning on keeping the Tru-Trac for a while before putting an Ox locker in but will probably get to it before the end of 2020. At which time I will upgrade the rear shafts.
8. Brake pad, rotor and caliper replacement

For all this, plus some fluff, I have budgeted $5k. This includes the rocker guard mentioned above, all the fluids and a few new tools for the garage.

The list is this way so I can address a lot of "piece of mind," I suppose and was driven by, "well, since you've got that apart, you might as well replace…" thinking.

Which then puts me back, teetering on the idea of buying a crate axle to replace the Dana 30. Which I might be inclined to do if the major producers had Ox as an option. Out of all of the selectable lockers, I like the mechanical Ox locker the best. My perception is, with an e-locker, there could be gremlins. With the air locker, there could be an o-ring failure, air leak, compressor failure. With the Ox, it's a cable and I can get a drive-a-way lock. Don't get me wrong, I have read up on the locker failures here and think that the overall reliability is probably good enough but if all the apples and oranges are the same, my dime is on the cable. That's a lot of the reason I bought the TJ in the first place. (I will comment on the irony of these statements in the context of the 2BT later )

My question to the group:

1. What other, "since you've got that thing apart" maintenance, replacement, upgrades should I consider?
2. Should I save up for a Dana 44 crate axle to put in the front? From what I have read, the answer is probably no.
3. Should I invest in a truss for the front axle?

 

[AndyG]

You have a good mindset , stay with spicer on joints and do a savvy transfer case cable if you haven’t. Welcome to forum.

 

[Chris]

My question to the group:

1. What other, "since you've got that thing apart" maintenance, replacement, upgrades should I consider?
2. Should I save up for a Dana 44 crate axle to put in the front? From what I have read, the answer is probably no.
3. Should I invest in a truss for the front axle?

Welcome to the forum!

To answer your questions:

1. Honestly, I think you have it all covered.
2. No, absolute waste of money.
3. No, not only necessary, but also a waste of money.

I'm assuming your build is going to be based around 33s, correct?

 

[Rescue6]

I would get the rear locker when you rehear or you will be paying to have the gears set up again and another install kit when you do go with it. You can do the shafts later. If you waited to upgrade the front shafts till later also it would free up cash for the rear locker at gear install time also. If you are sticking with 33” tires I wouldn’t go 5.13’s either. I’m running 5.13’s on 37”s and it’s great but anything less than 35” tired it would be over geared. In my opinion

 

[AustinJeepTJ]

I'm assuming your build is going to be based around 33s, correct?

If you are sticking with 33” tires I wouldn’t go 5.13’s either. I’m running 5.13’s on 37”s and it’s great but anything less than 35” tired it would be over geared. In my opinion.

For the time being, yes but in the long run, no. My original plan was 4.56 or 4.88 but reading through posts like this, if I am considering 35” or 37” tires, I should consider 5.13. I rarely see 75mph on the highway and the trails are pretty close, I figured I could tolerate sitting around 3k RPM at 65MPH. The consideration to go with a TDI or 2BT down the road were also taken into account.

I would get the rear locker when you regear or you will be paying to have the gears set up again and another install kit when you do go with it. You can do the shafts later. If you waited to upgrade the front shafts till later also it would free up cash for the rear locker at gear install time also.

The plan is to upgrade to the Dana 30, 30 spline Ox Locker which means I need to upgrade the axles to 30 spline also. Do you think I should prioritize a rear locker over the front?

The other idea that I have been contemplating is finding a Dana 30 high pinion front axle and rebuilding it out of the TJ.

None of the things on my list need to be done. I want the locker in the front. I would feel better if the steering joints were replaced and that the axle and drive shaft u-joints were replaced. All of these can be done in a weekend but, “since I have that thing apart…” I might as well do some of the things I want. If I had bought the TJ new, I would have done all of these things by now, sitting at 195k. The hubs are on the list because there is a slow, low squeak in the morning when everything is cold but that disappears once I hit the end of my road which is about 50 yards. And that all sums up my dilemma. If I am going to do this, then I might as well do these other things.

And that’s why I appreciate the feedback and opinions from this community. Is there a better sequence to do this work? My thinking is this, In order to upgrade the Dana 30 carrier to an Ox locker, I need to pull the tires, brake rotors, hubs and axles, as well as, disconnect the steering tie rods. My neurosis drives me to install the new carrier with the gears, replace the axles with the new ones, install the new hubs, new brakes and put the tires back, and, while you’re there, let’s just upgrade the steering and get all those joints done.

 

[Goatman]

To be honest I think you may be spending too much time reading forums. The first, and most important thing is to get some butt time. Drive the damn thing. Find out if you even NEED half of that stuff. 37's are certainly not needed for a TRAIL runner. Neither are 35's. The ability to properly DRIVE the machine is vastly more important than any set gear ratio. Chrome moly in a trail Jeep comes in handy when you don't know how to get around a tree, but just keep full pedal and whacking thing head on instead.
You want a good trail rig? Look at a Rubicon, add some bumpers and a winch. 32" tires are more than capable to be on a trail rig if the driver knows how to do his part. 33" are nice too. But I think you have gotten the cart before the horse here. Find a bunch of guys that wheel where you want to wheel. Hang out with them. Ask to ride "shotgun" on their next outing and learn from them.
I like new parts as much as the next guy. I love to work on my Jeep too. But buying a crate axle to replace the one that might be everything you actually need will prevent you from having the funds to fix the clutch that you might actually need.
Drive the Jeep. Learn to drive offroad. Quick disconnects on the front can do a lot. Drive it for at least 3-6 months and learn. Bumpers, some side armor and a winch will get you places you wouldn't think possible. A good group of people to learn from can save you a whole pile of cash that can be used to actually go to the places you want to see.
As a kid we ran mostly Broncos and Blasers because they were cheap. A few welded up the back axle. I think 1 had a working winch. We had some chains on the tires and tow straps in the back and would go way way out into places you wouldn't believe for a 3 sometimes 4 day weekend.
Absolutely no offense meant, but knowledge and skill will get you places a set of ox lockers never will. And a group of friends will always get you back too. Take your time to learn what you really need.
Ever get a new video game and for whatever reason punch in the chest codes right away? 10 minutes later you are bored with the game. And out of cash too. Enjoy learning the game. The best stories in life is when things happen. No one listens to a story of " Went on an epic trip! Then came home."
Hope this helps. And welcome to the forum.

 

[jesseshoots]

I would skip the 30 spline front upgrade for now and prioritize the rear locker. I have a Dana 44 in the rear with an Eaton Detroit locker and a stock Dana 30 with a Lock Rite locker in the front. The Lock Rite is super cheap, doesn't require upgrading the front axles, and if/when you ever break the stock fronts you can then address the need for upgraded 30 splines and an OX.

I don't believe there will be any more issues with an electronic locker than there will be with a mechanical cable linkage. Having personally witnessed thousands of locker cables being thrown away due to them having bad crimps in them, I would trust wiring my own electronic locker over hoping the cable was made to spec and went through a proper QC process before making it to my door.

Also, I agree with @Goatman that you should just get out and wheel the thing before you do anything to it. That way you know where you can/can't go with a stock rig and how to overcome it with the build.

 

[Chris]

For the time being, yes but in the long run, no. My original plan was 4.56 or 4.88 but reading through posts like this, if I am considering 35” or 37” tires, I should consider 5.13. I rarely see 75mph on the highway and the trails are pretty close, I figured I could tolerate sitting around 3k RPM at 65MPH. The consideration to go with a TDI or 2BT down the road were also taken into account.

If you are considering 35 or 37s, you had better not only have deep pockets, but also realize that 37s are too big for a TJ without stretching the wheelbase, wider axles, etc. 35s is expensive to do right, but 37s is a whole different ballgame.

My suggestion would be to build it the way you intend it to end up from the start. Don't make the foolish mistake so many of us have made (myself included) that build it mild, then go all out. It's a waste of money, and you end up spending sometimes twice as much doing it over again.

Decide what tire size you want to run, then do it once.

If you do re-gear for 35s, you'll want to check out this thread:

What gear ratio should I install in my Jeep Wrangler TJ / LJ? (and other re-gearing FAQs)

The gear you run will depend on tire size, engine, and transmission. In most cases though, with such a large tire, you're going to want to gear as deep as possible.

 

[AustinJeepTJ]

If you do re-gear for 35s, you'll want to check out this thread:

What gear ratio should I install in my Jeep Wrangler TJ / LJ? (and other re-gearing FAQs)

The gear you run will depend on tire size, engine, and transmission. In most cases though, with such a large tire, you're going to want to gear as deep as possible.

Thanks, @Chris!

Based on that, I should be at 5.13 with the 4.0l, NV3550 and NP231.

I bought the TJ with the 33's still on stock 3.73 gears. It's feels great on the trail and through 3rd, but drags in 4th and 5th. With the suspension on the list, but not until later, and that may come with some JCR fenders, I should be ok to jump to 35's when ready if I stick to the plan.

@Goatman I am 100% with you when it comes to time in seat. Not only when it comes to off-roading but with most things. Anything worth doing is worth doing with your whole face in it. I am continually impressed with the current capabilities of the TJ and having driven through many trees over the past 4 months, and the deeper we go, the more I feel great about and love the rig. The boys and I have made it in, and out of some sticky situations, so far, with some good stories to tell. But you are so right!

I would skip the 30 spline front upgrade for now and prioritize the rear locker. I have a Dana 44 in the rear with an Eaton Detroit locker and a stock Dana 30 with a Lock Rite locker in the front. The Lock Rite is super cheap, doesn't require upgrading the front axles, and if/when you ever break the stock fronts you can then address the need for upgraded 30 splines and an OX.

I will look into the Lock Rite. Thank you.

 

[chino1969]

To be honest I think you may be spending too much time reading forums. The first, and most important thing is to get some butt time. Drive the damn thing. Find out if you even NEED half of that stuff. 37's are certainly not needed for a TRAIL runner. Neither are 35's. The ability to properly DRIVE the machine is vastly more important than any set gear ratio. Chrome moly in a trail Jeep comes in handy when you don't know how to get around a tree, but just keep full pedal and whacking thing head on instead.
You want a good trail rig? Look at a Rubicon, add some bumpers and a winch. 32" tires are more than capable to be on a trail rig if the driver knows how to do his part. 33" are nice too. But I think you have gotten the cart before the horse here. Find a bunch of guys that wheel where you want to wheel. Hang out with them. Ask to ride "shotgun" on their next outing and learn from them.
I like new parts as much as the next guy. I love to work on my Jeep too. But buying a crate axle to replace the one that might be everything you actually need will prevent you from having the funds to fix the clutch that you might actually need.
Drive the Jeep. Learn to drive offroad. Quick disconnects on the front can do a lot. Drive it for at least 3-6 months and learn. Bumpers, some side armor and a winch will get you places you wouldn't think possible. A good group of people to learn from can save you a whole pile of cash that can be used to actually go to the places you want to see.
As a kid we ran mostly Broncos and Blasers because they were cheap. A few welded up the back axle. I think 1 had a working winch. We had some chains on the tires and tow straps in the back and would go way way out into places you wouldn't believe for a 3 sometimes 4 day weekend.
Absolutely no offense meant, but knowledge and skill will get you places a set of ox lockers never will. And a group of friends will always get you back too. Take your time to learn what you really need.
Ever get a new video game and for whatever reason punch in the chest codes right away? 10 minutes later you are bored with the game. And out of cash too. Enjoy learning the game. The best stories in life is when things happen. No one listens to a story of " Went on an epic trip! Then came home."
Hope this helps. And welcome to the forum.

Very well said.