Why you want a Mopar radiator

Don't have to ask, I've done a swap. As Blaine said it isn't as difficult as some make it out to be. The first car I bought on my own was a 1977 racing shell and I put in a 1984 fuel injected engine in it. The inspection took some time, the guy asked a ton of questions about the engine and then put the car on a rack. He asked how I modified the fuel tank so the evap system would work. I replied I had swapped the tank and all the fuel injection lines from a 1984 vehicle. He didn't ask any more questions, finished up the inspection and paperwork and told me it was one of the cleaner swaps he had ever seen. At the track I must have had 20 people tell me I was full of it and didn't really have it legal. They wouldn't believe me until I showed them the door tag with the new VIN, I definitely wore it as a badge of honor in my youth. Now days part of me wonders why I didn't just look a bit longer for a 1984 in the first place.

Today I think it's both easier because the techs rely so much on OBD and more difficult because you have to make the OBD system work. Personally I don't like any of the commercial solutions that allow the J1850 bus on the Jeep to talk to the GM computers. I don't like the aftermarket gauge solution. I definitely don't keep up to date on the latest but that's what it looked like the last time I checked. If I wanted 400hp I'd just buy a 2010 Raptor and change my licence plate to "trailhog."
 
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Rec_Rider said:
I would love to hear about a real world TJ swap in CA.
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I can't give details of how the process went, but I know two individuals in my part of California with smog referee approved V-8s in their California plated TJs. One is an LS; I think the other is a Chrysler motor. The smog referee in our area has his work area at the local community college in the same building as the college Automotive Dept. where he also trains smog test technicians.
 
Chris said:
The sad part is that it's already getting hard to find Mopar radiators. I would give it maybe a few more years at most before we're at the mercy of the Chinese and other shitty "aluminum" radiators.

Wish someone would make a decent aftermarket solution that doesn't fail in 2-3 years.
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If mine lasts as long as the originals usually do, it'll be 2030 and guaranteed Mopar won't be supplying them anymore. Maybe somebody will have stepped up by then with a quality replacement.

What really frustrates me about it is how poorly Mopar supports their older vehicles in comparison to some other manufacturers. In 2003 I was rebuilding a 1976 Datsun 280Z, so a few years older at the time than the oldest TJ is today, but I never found a part that I couldn't get at the Nissan dealer if I was willing to pay for it.
 
freedom_in_4low said:
What really frustrates me about it is how poorly Mopar supports their older vehicles in comparison to some other manufacturers. In 2003 I was rebuilding a 1976 Datsun 280Z, so a few years older at the time than the oldest TJ is today, but I never found a part that I couldn't get at the Nissan dealer if I was willing to pay for it.
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Very true, Toyota seems to support their older vehicles pretty well also, at least in terms of engine / maintenance parts.

I'm surprised to hear that about Nissan still carrying older Datsun parts. Wonder if that's still the case?
 
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Chris said:
Very true, Toyota seems to support their older vehicles pretty well also, at least in terms of engine / maintenance parts.

I'm surprised to hear that about Nissan still carrying older Datsun parts. Wonder if that's still the case?
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I'd be kinda surprised at this point, but I sold the car in 2007 so I haven't had to buy parts for it in a while. I may find out some day, I've always wanted to have another one.

On the radiator front, I do actually have the resources to make my own. I'm an engineer for a commercial/industrial HVAC manufacturer...I hired the guy that runs the lab, so I could probably borrow some data acquisition equipment and sensors, do some testing to get flow rates and temperature/pressure drops, and then design a heat exchanger to match it. It would be several hundred bucks, and it would look different with copper tubes and horizontal flow instead of vertical, but it would do the job. The logistics would be tough because I'm 600 miles from the plant, but in theory it's doable.
 
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freedom_in_4low said:
I'd be kinda surprised at this point, but I sold the car in 2007 so I haven't had to buy parts for it in a while. I may find out some day, I've always wanted to have another one.

On the radiator front, I do actually have the resources to make my own. I'm an engineer for a commercial/industrial HVAC manufacturer...I hired the guy that runs the lab, so I could probably borrow some data acquisition equipment and sensors, do some testing to get flow rates and temperature/pressure drops, and then design a heat exchanger to match it. It would be several hundred bucks, and it would look different with copper tubes and horizontal flow instead of vertical, but it would do the job. The logistics would be tough because I'm 600 miles from the plant, but in theory it's doable.
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What gets me is that all these aftermarket aluminum radiators have issues leaking around the welds. So what is that all about, just shitty welds? Couldn't they easily be beefed up (the welds) and made to last, or am I missing something?
 
Chris said:
What gets me is that all these aftermarket aluminum radiators have issues leaking around the welds. So what is that all about, just shitty welds? Couldn't they easily be beefed up (the welds) and made to last, or am I missing something?
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It's interesting. My previous employer makes all-aluminum condenser coils that include a cast manifold that's pulse welded by a robot. Once they got out to the field they were staggeringly reliable - like failure rates better expressed in ppm than percent. Most of the credit goes to the talent of the guys that set it up - welding engineers that had multiple competitive offers straight out of college, plus 15+ years of experience. There was also a robust inspection process that included pressurizing the unit with helium inside a mass spectrometer chamber to check for leaks. I don't recall the allowable amount per coil but on an entire chiller they held to under half an ounce per year of refrigerant, and each chiller had as many as 28 of these coils on it, so basically if there was any detectable helium it was rejected.

My hunch is a lot of these aluminum radiator companies (without knowing much about any of them) are either pinching pennies and know exactly the right balance of manufacturing cost vs warranty claims, or they're not actually engineering the product and are just leaning on what may very well be great welders but aren't engineers.
 
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freedom_in_4low said:
My hunch is a lot of these aluminum radiator companies (without knowing much about any of them) are either pinching pennies and know exactly the right balance of manufacturing cost vs warranty claims, or they're not actually engineering the product and are just leaning on what may very well be great welders but aren't engineers.
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That's my guess as well.

Mishimoto is one of the big aftermarket suppliers of all aluminum radiators. Of course I have yet to read a single good thing about their garbage quality radiators. However, they back them up with the "lifetime warranty" deal I believe, so you get a new one if yours fails.

Okay, but how many people actually want to replace their radiator every year or so? What I wouldn't give to have an aftermarket company that actually produced quality aluminum radiators.
 
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Chris said:
What gets me is that all these aftermarket aluminum radiators have issues leaking around the welds. So what is that all about, just shitty welds? Couldn't they easily be beefed up (the welds) and made to last, or am I missing something?
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Same thing happens on aluminum fuel tanks, it isn't an easy thing to deal with.
 
Chris said:
That's my guess as well.

Mishimoto is one of the big aftermarket suppliers of all aluminum radiators. Of course I have yet to read a single good thing about their garbage quality radiators. However, they back them up with the "lifetime warranty" deal I believe, so you get a new one if yours fails.

Okay, but how many people actually want to replace their radiator every year or so? What I wouldn't give to have an aftermarket company that actually produced quality aluminum radiators.
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They're popular because they're cheap. No difference between a mishi and the $110 fleebay special other than the warranty


I'm supprised KOYO doesn't make a rad for the TJ....
 
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Chris said:
I wonder if anyone has had issues with the GenRight tanks? I know that mine had some of the best welds I've ever seen. Looked like a perfect stack of dimes.
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It really has to do with how they are mounted in that case. The genright tanks are held in a cradle. The cracks form where the sheet aluminum flexes at the weld like aluminum fuel cell tabs. Those are the failures I was thinking about.
 
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You all have convinced me to go ahead and purchase a new OEM Mopar radiator for a back-up replacement while they are still available. The one I have now is about 8 years old (Mopar replacement) and no leaks so far, but I am not going to be at the mercy of an aftermarket radiator in the near future.

RockAuto has the cheapest price I could find.
 
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Chris said:
Yep, fuel pumps are basically a goner. Though I've heard the Delphi ones might be okay?

At some point you just have to say to yourself, "Shit, if I can't get parts for this thing, I'll solve this problem by swapping in an LS!".
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What do people usually do with the radiator in an LS swap? I would expect it to have higher heat rejection demands than the 4.0.
 
freedom_in_4low said:
What do people usually do with the radiator in an LS swap? I would expect it to have higher heat rejection demands than the 4.0.
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My understanding is they usually end up going with a Griffin or similar aftermarket radiator.
 
Please forgive me Blaine as I'm usually pretty good at deciphering your code-speak... I must be having a brain fart moment. Are you saying you know people that have had to replace their Griffin radiators after just 1 year? I'm just trying to clear my own fog here, thanks.
 
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