Need advice for Dana 44 high pinion with three Inch tubes for front axle build

[Gunnersmate]

Scooped up a dana 44 High Pinion with 3 inch tubes, and was looking for any guidance or Pros/Cons for building this axle for My TJ. The end Tire size will be 33/35 and maybe a 5.7 hemi swap or I may just run the 4.0 5spd.
I can build this axle ARB Locker, High Steer, Disc brakes, New Gears, and Manual lockouts, Forged inner C's Reid Racing Knuckles ect for pretty close to the price of a Currie. About 5K
I can buy a Stock TJ Rubi front Diff (Bolts In) No Mods or upgrades About 3K
or I can buy a Currie D 44 (Bolts In) About 5K

 

[Wildman]

Scooped up a dana 44 High Pinion with 3 inch tubes, and was looking for any guidance or Pros/Cons for building this axle for My TJ. The end Tire size will be 33/35 and maybe a 5.7 hemi swap or I may just run the 4.0 5spd.
I can build this axle ARB Locker, High Steer, Disc brakes, New Gears, and Manual lockouts, Forged inner C's Reid Racing Knuckles ect for pretty close to the price of a Currie. About 5K
I can buy a Stock TJ Rubi front Diff (Bolts In) No Mods or upgrades About 3K
or I can buy a Currie D 44 (Bolts In) About 5K

Is this a Ford snow plow HP44 or aftermarket?

1) How wide do you want to go with it?
This depends on what your plans for the future are and what you plan to use the Jeep for. If it's a trail Jeep and you aren't planning on going above 35" tires then you could keep it close to stock width. By doing this you could get new axle shafts easier.

2) How much lift are you running or plan on running?
Going to a high steering configuration can be more trouble than it is worth.

3) Lockers are a choice between selectable lockers or auto lockers. IMO you can't go wrong with a ARB.

4) I haven't priced out the cost of all the parts in a while but yes many times it's cheaper to just buy already built axle.
But by building it yourself you're choosing the parts more so than if you bought a built axle.

5) Why are you going for "Hi End" parts for smaller tires?
I have a Ford HP44 I narrowed to Wagoneer width (61.5") wms to make finding axles easier if I break something.
What bolt pattern are you wanting to run? 5 on 4.5" to match the stock TJ BP? Or 5 on 5.5" to match the old CJ BP or 6 on 5.5" to match what came on Wagoneers?

6) Trying to compare a built HP44 to a stock Rubi LP44 is like apples to oranges. A Rubi 44 isn't even close to a built axle.

 

[Gunnersmate]

Is this a Ford snow plow HP44 or aftermarket?

1) How wide do you want to go with it?
This depends on what your plans for the future are and what you plan to use the Jeep for. If it's a trail Jeep and you aren't planning on going above 35" tires then you could keep it close to stock width. By doing this you could get new axle shafts easier.

2) How much lift are you running or plan on running?
Going to a high steering configuration can be more trouble than it is worth.

3) Lockers are a choice between selectable lockers or auto lockers. IMO you can't go wrong with a ARB.

4) I haven't priced out the cost of all the parts in a while but yes many times it's cheaper to just buy already built axle.
But by building it yourself you're choosing the parts more so than if you bought a built axle.

5) Why are you going for "Hi End" parts for smaller tires?
I have a Ford HP44 I narrowed to Wagoneer width (61.5") wms to make finding axles easier if I break something.
What bolt pattern are you wanting to run? 5 on 4.5" to match the stock TJ BP? Or 5 on 5.5" to match the old CJ BP or 6 on 5.5" to match what came on Wagoneers?

6) Trying to compare a built HP44 to a stock Rubi LP44 is like apples to oranges. A Rubi 44 isn't even close to a built axle.

Is this a Ford snow plow HP44 or aftermarket?

Its is not aftermarket it is only the center diff housing origin is unknown other than I think its an old ford Diff



1) How wide do you want to go with it?
This depends on what your plans for the future are and what you plan to use the Jeep for. If it's a trail Jeep and you aren't planning on going above 35" tires then you could keep it close to stock width. By doing this you could get new axle shafts easier.

Stock Width or close to stock width

2) How much lift are you running or plan on running?
Going to a high steering configuration can be more trouble than it is worth.

OME 2.5 inch plus a savvy 1.5 inch body lift, Tummy Tuck, SYE the High Steer looks interesting however I know nothing about this set up

3) Lockers are a choice between selectable lockers or auto lockers. IMO you can't go wrong with a ARB.

4) I haven't priced out the cost of all the parts in a while but yes many times it's cheaper to just buy already built axle.
But by building it yourself you're choosing the parts more so than if you bought a built axle.

5) Why are you going for "Hi End" parts for smaller tires? In case I go to bigger tires and more HP later
I have a Ford HP44 I narrowed to Wagoneer width (61.5") wms to make finding axles easier if I break something.
What bolt pattern are you wanting to run?
5 on 4.5" to match the stock TJ BP?
Or
5 on 5.5" to match the old CJ BP
or
6 on 5.5" to match what came on Wagoneers?
Have not decided any pros/cons leaning towards 5 on 5.5 and use ford manual hub lockouts and brakes ect.

6) Trying to compare a built HP44 to a stock Rubi LP44 is like apples to oranges. A Rubi 44 isn't even close to a built axle.

End goal is to build a tough as nails axle with good on and off road manners and durability

 

[Wildman]

OK so do I understand that it's JUST the center diff housing with no axle tubes installed?

This is ALL you have? While your diff might not look like this I'm just using it as an example.


IMO if I was starting over again building my HP44 I'd use Dana 60 inner "c" and then a Dana 60 knuckle with a hub/rotor assembly with the bolt pattern I want.

Here is a example of a Dana 60 kit.

https://craneaxle.com/default/gm-dana-60-front-steer-knuckle-kit.html
Or Dana 44 parts

https://craneaxle.com/products/off-road-knuckles/dana-44-knuckles.html
One of the NICE things about using Ford knuckles over Chevy knuckles is that if you ever went with RCV shafts they fit thru the knuckles instead of having to assemble them once the knuckles are installed. They are a major PITA to do.

https://www.reidracing.biz/dana-44-ford
But going with Dana 60 parts makes it a little more expensive but you'll have a seriously stout axle that not much will break. The smaller Dana 44 center section and Dana 60 shafts/u-joints/knuckles.

And this to make the R&P stronger.

http://www.jantz4x4.com//jantz.php?p=detail&pro=jana_54

 

[pagrey]

I thought the only reason to run a 44 in the front of any kind is the ability to run very high gear ratios? I thought the hub assembly was the limit of the 30 and 44, they are essentially the same so you need to go another step to get a stronger axle. You also loose almost an 1" under the pumpkin on the 44 for the ability to run two additional ratios. Not trying to badmouth the 44 in any way, just might step back and look at the big picture before you put money into that axle.

 

[Wildman]

I thought the only reason to run a 44 in the front of any kind is the ability to run very high gear ratios? I thought the hub assembly was the limit of the 30 and 44, they are essentially the same so you need to go another step to get a stronger axle. You also loose almost an 1" under the pumpkin on the 44 for the ability to run two additional ratios. Not trying to badmouth the 44 in any way, just might step back and look at the big picture before you put money into that axle.

He isn't talking about a Rubicon Dana 44.

This is a Ford HP44 similar to the axle I have in the front of my TJ. Larger ball joints and stronger axle tubes & inner "C"s if stock and a lot stronger if aftermarket. Not ALL Dana 44's are the same. Knowing what they came out of makes a big difference.

 

[pagrey]

This is a Ford HP44 similar to the axle I have in the front of my TJ. Larger ball joints and stronger axle tubes & inner "C"s if stock and a lot stronger if aftermarket. Not ALL Dana 44's are the same. Knowing what they came out of makes a big difference.

I guess big difference is pretty subjective and you did mention the 60 knuckles with is what I was really thinking about, I hadn't see your post.

 

[Wildman]

I guess big difference is pretty subjective and you did mention the 60 knuckles with is what I was really thinking about, I hadn't see your post.

I'd been running a HEAVY 38" tires on steel wheels on my HP44 for 2 + years before it was parked and I hadn't needed to change the ball joints. Yes it has the same size R&P as a Rubicon but it's a HP not a LP so for a front axle it's running on the correct side of the ring gear. There are MANY reasons old school Dana 44's either LP or HP are better than a TJ Dana 44.

 

[Gunnersmate]

Ok so my Next question is the upper control arm mount on the top of the Diff housing what are the options?
a. Mount welded to cast iron housing
b. mount welded to truss
c. other

 

[Gunnersmate]

And any in-sight on the High Steer with the D 60 Inners C's and Knuckles

 

[Gunnersmate]

I'd been running a HEAVY 38" tires on steel wheels on my HP44 for 2 + years before it was parked and I hadn't needed to change the ball joints. Yes it has the same size R&P as a Rubicon but it's a HP not a LP so for a front axle it's running on the correct side of the ring gear. There are MANY reasons old school Dana 44's either LP or HP are better than a TJ Dana 44.

Ok so my Next question is the upper control arm mount on the top of the Diff housing what are the options?
a. Mount welded to cast iron housing
b. mount welded to truss
c. other

And any in-sight on the High Steer with D 60 Inner C's and Knuckles

 

[Wildman]

Ok so my Next question is the upper control arm mount on the top of the Diff housing what are the options?
a. Mount welded to cast iron housing
b. mount welded to truss
c. other

B. IMO is the best choice just get a mini truss that hugs the top of the diff. Like this. It's the Rubicon Express bracket kit that has everything for a front axle.

And any in-sight on the High Steer with the D 60 Inners C's and Knuckles

All I can tell you is that I've never been able to get high steering to work on my TJ. I run a high steer arm on the passenger side for the drag link and a flipped tie rod on the stock knuckles. I can't say this for sure but I think the stock style steering with the tie rods flipped would be better. From my experiance something it going to hit. Be it the tie rod on the pitman arm or tie rod on the diff cover or drag link on engine pulleys.

View attachment 291966View attachment 291967View attachment 291968

Do you know of a local shop that can press in new tubes?

 

[Gunnersmate]

B. IMO is the best choice just get a mini truss that hugs the top of the diff. Like this. It's the Rubicon Express bracket kit that has everything for a front axle.

View attachment 291969






All I can tell you is that I've never been able to get high steering to work on my TJ. I run a high steer arm on the passenger side for the drag link and a flipped tie rod on the stock knuckles. I can't say this for sure but I think the stock style steering with the tie rods flipped would be better. From my experiance something it going to hit. Be it the tie rod on the pitman arm or tie rod on the diff cover or drag link on engine pulleys.



Do you know of a local shop that can press in new tubes?

I think I can find a local Shop, how hard is it to find the High Pinion Dana 44-HD and are they worth very much

 

[Wildman]

I think I can find a local Shop, how hard is it to find the High Pinion Dana 44-HD and are they worth very much

They are becoming harder to find since they were rare as it was. My HP44 has 2.75" tubes instead of the 3" tubes but they are still very thick. Just the center I would guess it's worth $100-250 depending on who you sold it to. You can buy a aftermarket diff for $700-1,000 depending on what it is.

Here is mine with the inner "C"s removed.

It does look like there was enough tube sticking out on both ends to maybe just add tube to it. Sleeve the inside and then v-groove it and burn it HOT and then sleeve the outside. But at that point I'd guess you're at the price of getting it retubed.

The bracket kit from RE isn't cheap but neither are any of the other kits.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...1252637935284&utm_content=GSAPI+5ba2978eae099

 

[Gunnersmate]

They are becoming harder to find since they were rare as it was. My HP44 has 2.75" tubes instead of the 3" tubes but they are still very thick. Just the center I would guess it's worth $100-250 depending on who you sold it to. You can buy a aftermarket diff for $700-1,000 depending on what it is.

View attachment 291976


Here is mine with the inner "C"s removed.

View attachment 291977


It does look like there was enough tube sticking out on both ends to maybe just add tube to it. Sleeve the inside and then v-groove it and burn it HOT and then sleeve the outside. But at that point I'd guess you're at the price of getting it retubed.

The bracket kit from RE isn't cheap but neither are any of the other kits.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...1252637935284&utm_content=GSAPI+5ba2978eae099

My Plan was to Re-Tube, I like your Idea of D 60 C's and Knuckles which ones Chevy Dodge or Ford the Link you gave me above goes to GM style Knuckles

 

[Wildman]

My Plan was to Re-Tube, I like your Idea of D 60 C's and Knuckles which ones Chevy Dodge or Ford the Link you gave me above goes to GM style Knuckles

I would go with Ford or GM. BUT you again have some choices.

If you get Ford or GM depending on the years it's going to be King Pin which is really strong.
If you go Dodge or later Ford it is then ball joint but remember these ball joints are made to support a 4K lb front of a 8K lb truck.
And then depending on which knuckles you choose will also steer you to what bolt pattern choices you have. And is it a old spindle & roller bearing or a unit bearing setup. And just like the ball joints don't confuse these unit bearings with what are on your TJ.

Edit: Yes I kick myself for not using Dana 60 parts when I built my axle the first time. If you run a ARB 35 spline locker you can run Dana 60 shafts. 35 spline inners and 30 spline outers as your fuse with Spicer u-joints. IMO it's be good for up to 40" tires and if you did the Jana 54 & load bolt plus cromo shafts I'd even go as far as a 42" tire.

 

[Gunnersmate]

I would go with Ford or GM. BUT you again have some choices.

If you get Ford or GM depending on the years it's going to be King Pin which is really strong.
If you go Dodge or later Ford it is then ball joint but remember these ball joints are made to support a 4K lb front of a 8K lb truck.
And then depending on which knuckles you choose will also steer you to what bolt pattern choices you have. And is it a old spindle & roller bearing or a unit bearing setup. And just like the ball joints don't confuse these unit bearings with what are on your TJ.

I have a Ford Excursion and am very familiar with Unit Bearings and would much rather have a serviceable hub with manual lock-outs. I would like to keep this simple when it comes to brake, Rotors, Calipers and King pin / Ball Joints

 

[Gunnersmate]

I have a Ford Excursion and am very familiar with Unit Bearings and would much rather have a serviceable hub with manual lock-outs. I would like to keep this simple when it comes to brake, Rotors, Calipers and King pin / Ball Joints

Is there any Benefit to Building to a JK or JL width Axle

 

[RHanna]

What do you have or plan to have in the rear?

 

[Gunnersmate]

What do you have or plan to have in the rear?

I already have a dana 44 true-trac in the rear