Can I drive with a broken bank 1 sensor 1 O2?

[97' 4 Popper]

Can I drive with a broken 02 sensor bank 1 sensor 1? I know it can start right up but will it stall randomly or something going down the road?

This is the backstory if anyone is interested....

I stripped my 02 sensor bank 1 sensor 1 on my 06'. It is probably the hardest to reach out of all 4. When I changed my 02 sensors on my bank 2 all I did was spray with kroil for a few days, started up the jeep and they came right out. This bank 1 sensor 1 is incredibly awkward to reach. Normally I avoid using crescent wrenches or crowfoots in a situation where I can risk stripping a nut. But in this case a long socket wouldn't go on the sensor even after I cut the wire, there's no room. I haven't had good luck using my 02 sensor socket for removal, it has been very helpful for install though. I can't even remember the last time I stripped a nut or bolt that wasn't a torx head. But because it was in the ass crack of the engine bay I thought I was turning the 02 sensor when I was actually just turning my wrenches around the hex and stripping it. I might still be able to get a grip out of the hex but this is very frustrating. The only solution I can think of is cutting the 02 sensor off with a dremel which is taking forever, and then with the additional access maybe just maybe I can fit a regular 1/2 inch drive 22mm/7/8ths long socket. Failing that I will have to pay someone to weld a nut on there (I would think a stick electrode would reach up fine), and probably get charged a heavy amount due to the awkward location.

 

[Jodh]

Can you remove the exhaust?

 

[97' 4 Popper]

Can you remove the exhaust?

Can I? Yes. Am I going to, not right now. It's in the cards but the whole point of replacing the 02 sensors was to see if it would clear by p0431 code so I don't have to tear out the entire exhaust.

 

[RMETeeJay]

I’d repair ASAP, but I don’t think anything catastrophic would happen.

You might try breaking the top of the sensor off and use a screw extractor with a long extension.

 

[JKP]

It will run in open loop without the O2.

A flare nut wrench works perfectly on that one. Or if you already cut the wires, a plain old box end wrench will work fine.

 

[97' 4 Popper]

I’d repair ASAP, but I don’t think anything catastrophic would happen.

You might try breaking the top of the sensor off and use a screw extractor with a long extension.

Screw extractors, as well as left handed drill bits have never worked for me and that is in situations where I have had complete access. The extractors are so brittle because they have to be harder than what they are going into. That means eventually you will end up with a snapped extractor inside a snapped bolt. In the confines of the exhaust area of the bank 1 sensor 1 there's no way there would be enough room to do anything.

It will run in open loop without the O2.

A flare nut wrench works perfectly on that one. Or if you already cut the wires, a plain old box end wrench will work fine.

What do you mean by run in an open loop? A box or flare wrench is what got me into this mess. If I had just used the 02 sensor socket or if I could have cut the sensor off and used a regular socket it would grip enough to prevent slipping and rounding out the hex.

 

[JKP]

The PCM goes into closed loop when the coolant temp reaches 160 deg or so and uses the O2s for mixture. Prior to that it uses the temp sensors, MAP, TPS to set the mixture using set parameters which is called open loop. With no O2, it will default to open loop and throw a code.

The flare nut wrench is thicker than the nut on the O2 and should have been just as good as a socket.

I don't remember exactly what I used to get that one out, but to change all 4 of mine I used a flare nut wrench, an O2 socket with a breaker bar, and then once free, a ratchet. I think the breaker bar provided better clearance than a ratchet for that one, but not positive.

 

[RMETeeJay]

Sounds like you need to apply more solvent and heat.

 

[97' 4 Popper]

The PCM goes into closed loop when the coolant temp reaches 160 deg or so and uses the O2s for mixture. Prior to that it uses the temp sensors, MAP, TPS to set the mixture using set parameters which is called open loop. With no O2, it will default to open loop and throw a code.

The flare nut wrench is thicker than the nut on the O2 and should have been just as good as a socket.

I don't remember exactly what I used to get that one out, but to change all 4 of mine I used a flare nut wrench, an O2 socket with a breaker bar, and then once free, a ratchet. I think the breaker bar provided better clearance than a ratchet for that one, but not positive.

I really appreciate the info, I will post an update if anything changes

Sounds like you need to apply more solvent and heat.

I have stopped attempting to remove it as the hex still has a little bit of grip left and I don't want to strip it further. I'm soaking in kroil for a few days, as well as slowly cutting away at the portion of the sensor above the hex with a dremel. I am hoping that will give me more room to fit a socket. When I do go to remove it I will run the engine for longer, normally I just wait until it gets to 210 and then I shut it off. I will let it run for a solid 15 minutes to half an hour next time. Some people use torches or heat tools that is also an option

 

[Steve04]

when working at the dealership when an o2 sensor was stubborn I would cut the body of the sensor off with an air hammer/ chisel. Then use a 6 point socket and breaker bar. I think the hammer action helps sometimes. It should come out but sometimes galls the threads. I ended up getting a tap that size to chase the threads

 

[97' 4 Popper]

when working at the dealership when an o2 sensor was stubborn I would cut the body of the sensor off with an air hammer/ chisel. Then use a 6 point socket and breaker bar. I think the hammer action helps sometimes. It should come out but sometimes galls the threads. I ended up getting a tap that size to chase the threads

Yea I definitely thought about hitting it but the body of the sensor seems tough as nails and I didn't want to damage the threads. I got new reinforced dremel blades today...it's a slow progress cutting

 

[DWR]

Short answer:
Yes, you can… you will see a hit it MPG, but it will run just fine, just a bit more rich than normal. Your best bet (if you have to) is to completely unplugged so it’s at least not sending a bad signal, and get it replaced repaired as soon as you can.

Long answer:
Yes, there are two different running circumstances… Open and closed loop. Closed loop (when the engine is warmed up) uses all the sensors to precisely decide how much fuel and air is going through the engine and adjusts to make it run the most efficient. Open loop uses tables that are pre-baked into the ECU to run well, but slightly rich (for safety, and to help the CATs warm up) general only when the engine is still heating up, but also I when there is a fault with an O2 sensor etc.. So in essence, you will be fine, but your MPG will be more crap than usual.

 

[97' 4 Popper]

Short answer:
Yes, you can… you will see a hit it MPG, but it will run just fine, just a bit more rich than normal. Your best bet (if you have to) is to completely unplugged so it’s at least not sending a bad signal, and get it replaced repaired as soon as you can.

Long answer:
Yes, there are two different running circumstances… Open and closed loop. Closed loop (when the engine is warmed up) uses all the sensors to precisely decide how much fuel and air is going through the engine and adjusts to make it run the most efficient. Open loop uses tables that are pre-baked into the ECU to run well, but slightly rich (for safety, and to help the CATs warm up) general only when the engine is still heating up, but also I when there is a fault with an O2 sensor etc.. So in essence, you will be fine, but your MPG will be more crap than usual.

Thank you for this information I appreciate it, I have the wire cut to the sensor, is that good enough or should I disconnect the electrical plug as well from the fuel rail area? As for the mpg I don't drive very much but as i mentioned in another thread I really wanted to get the TJ sorted out so I could possibly take it out of state this summer. It seems like it's not going to happen at this rate.

 

[DWR]

Thank you for this information I appreciate it, I have the wire cut to the sensor, is that good enough or should I disconnect the electrical plug as well from the fuel rail area? As for the mpg I don't drive very much but as i mentioned in another thread I really wanted to get the TJ sorted out so I could possibly take it out of state this summer. It seems like it's not going to happen at this rate.

No problem, the wire being cut is good enough. Just make sure everything is tucked away to not get burnt on the exhaust. Just didn’t want it sending random/faulty signals in the interim.

 

[97' 4 Popper]

No problem, the wire being cut is good enough. Just make sure everything is tucked away to not get burnt on the exhaust. Just didn’t want it sending random/faulty signals in the interim.

Good point, I should trim the wire all the way down before driving, if I do end up having to drive it like this.

 

[Rcroane]

Can you get a pair of vise grips on it? If not full size, then a large pair of needle nose ones?

 

[97' 4 Popper]

Can you get a pair of vise grips on it? If not full size, then a large pair of needle nose ones?

Yes I can, I have heard of people using vises to remove an 02 sensor. I have no idea how it would have enough leverage and grip but it is something try.

 

[NskLJ]

Thank you for this information I appreciate it, I have the wire cut to the sensor, is that good enough or should I disconnect the electrical plug as well from the fuel rail area? As for the mpg I don't drive very much but as i mentioned in another thread I really wanted to get the TJ sorted out so I could possibly take it out of state this summer. It seems like it's not going to happen at this rate.

Knock the end off the sensor, heat the exhaust bung with a torch and remove it with a 6 point socket, chase the threads with a tap. You can probably find a double ended spark plug tap that is the correct thread. Is it’s too much trouble remove the exhaust. 6 bolts and the exhaust is on the ground. I do live in California and bought the Jeep in Arizona so I don’t have rust to deal with. If you do remove the exhaust and it is rusted be prepared to replace the fasteners. Heat is the best way I have found to remove rusted fasteners.

 

[Whiskey]

Short answer:
Yes, you can… you will see a hit it MPG, but it will run just fine, just a bit more rich than normal. Your best bet (if you have to) is to completely unplugged so it’s at least not sending a bad signal, and get it replaced repaired as soon as you can.

Long answer:
Yes, there are two different running circumstances… Open and closed loop. Closed loop (when the engine is warmed up) uses all the sensors to precisely decide how much fuel and air is going through the engine and adjusts to make it run the most efficient. Open loop uses tables that are pre-baked into the ECU to run well, but slightly rich (for safety, and to help the CATs warm up) general only when the engine is still heating up, but also I when there is a fault with an O2 sensor etc.. So in essence, you will be fine, but your MPG will be more crap than usual.

I second this. and when you do replace it be sure NOT to run Bosch sensors, get them from napa. I made this mistake on my 02 tj and MPG was about 5 mpg. I was burning gas like no other than i replaced with NTK/NGK and all was good again.

 

[97' 4 Popper]

Knock the end off the sensor, heat the exhaust bung with a torch and remove it with a 6 point socket, chase the threads with a tap. You can probably find a double ended spark plug tap that is the correct thread.

Roger

Is it’s too much trouble remove the exhaust. 6 bolts and the exhaust is on the ground. I do live in California and bought the Jeep in Arizona so I don’t have rust to deal with. If you do remove the exhaust and it is rusted be prepared to replace the fasteners. Heat is the best way I have found to remove rusted fasteners.

Everything on the jeep is rusted. By 6 bolts do you mean the transfer case skid plate? Forgive my ignorance but wouldn't you still have to unbolt the exhaust at the manifold and risk snapping the bolts? Removing the exhaust to get to an 02 sensor, man that's the thing I was hoping to avoid by replacing these sensors I thought I could clear my p0431 code (warm up catalyst below threshold). But if it comes to that I will suck it up. It's been on the bucket list for me to drop my skid again so I can replace the nutserts and bolts and remove the rust building up there. I already have 1 of the 6 bolts snapped. I also need to change my oil pan eventually it is rusty. So dropping the exhaust wouldn't necessarily be the end of the world or a bad thing. Just going down a rabbit hole I wanted to push off for as long as possible.

I second this. and when you do replace it be sure NOT to run Bosch sensors, get them from napa. I made this mistake on my 02 tj and MPG was about 5 mpg. I was burning gas like no other than i replaced with NTK/NGK and all was good again.

NTK only over here.