Winch Wiring Advice

[JamesAndTheSahara]

This is an open response thread, just wanting someone to point out something they like/dislike about this. I'm trying to make sure a wire won't rub & cause a fire. To ensure this doesn't happen I used conduit over the pre-installed warn quick disconnect 2 gauge wires routing them through the grill, below the headlight assembly, & out the most left hole by the headlight. I'm still trying to source a cable to connect this plug to (I know its universal but I bought the warn part for it, failed to realize that 7 more feet of 2 gauge wire will be impossible to route. Warn does not offer a shorter lead to the battery). I am looking for options for 26"-30" of 2gauge wire with these "Anderson Plug" connectors OR I can cut up the Warn wiring I order and crimp two lugs onto them. OR if you know of a company that makes cables with the anderson plugs send them my way. Please if you see a safety hazard here, have advice to offer, or want to comment on this please do.

Additional: I don't suspect this to be a long term solutions (Will be needed to safely & reliably work for roughly a year). I plan on redoing the cable setup with a proper blue seas HD marine switch when I do my dual battery setup. I don't want to cut expensive cable twice and already had one half of the cable set so I figured I should get the other half.

 

[droemt]

Look at a Tractor Supply or farm and ranch type store. They typically have those connectors with the heavy gauge tractor/automotive wiring.

 

[CodaMan]

I just installed a winch so this post is informational for me and I guess I'm trying to determine why all this is necessary.

When is the possibility of a winch fire going to happen? Under use or a short right?

Under use high current would be pulled by the motor and the more load on the motor the more current drawn. Just killing power to the winch motor would cut it's power. This could be done in a few way I guess .. 1) disconnect the winch controller 2) remove the positive (+) battery lead or 3) cut the positive (+) cable. Now I guess you could have a part fail inside the winch like a stuck solenoid or something that would cause the motor to drive without command, but what is the likelihood of that happening and would it draw enough power to start a fire?

A short would be the biggest potential for fire if the heavy positive (+) winch power cable were to get cut and short to ground? If that were to happen you would need to remove power from that cable, and how can that be accomplished? I see that it would have to be done at the battery, a disconnect at the winch would not help if the short to ground was between the battery and the disconnect, so either way you would need to open the hood and quickly remove the positive (+) cable from the battery.

The way I see it is if you route your cables in a way that they can never get cut your chance of a fire are gone unless the winch malfunctions and draws enough current to melt the power cable.

So what everyone needs is the quickest way to disconnect the battery cable, right?

Am I missing something here? Please help educate.

 

[Shwane]

Wouldn't the circuit breaker trip before a fire started? Or is this just a redundant safeguard?

 

[JamesAndTheSahara]

I just installed a winch so this post is informational for me and I guess I'm trying to determine why all this is necessary.

When is the possibility of a winch fire going to happen? Under use or a short right?

Under use high current would be pulled by the motor and the more load on the motor the more current drawn. Just killing power to the winch motor would cut it's power. This could be done in a few way I guess .. 1) disconnect the winch controller 2) remove the positive (+) battery lead or 3) cut the positive (+) cable. Now I guess you could have a part fail inside the winch like a stuck solenoid or something that would cause the motor to drive without command, but what is the likelihood of that happening and would it draw enough power to start a fire?

A short would be the biggest potential for fire if the heavy positive (+) winch power cable were to get cut and short to ground? If that were to happen you would need to remove power from that cable, and how can that be accomplished? I see that it would have to be done at the battery, a disconnect at the winch would not help if the short to ground was between the battery and the disconnect, so either way you would need to open the hood and quickly remove the positive (+) cable from the battery.

The way I see it is if you route your cables in a way that they can never get cut your chance of a fire are gone unless the winch malfunctions and draws enough current to melt the power cable.

So what everyone needs is the quickest way to disconnect the battery cable, right?

Am I missing something here? Please help educate.

Under use is very unlikely, a short is the area of concern. Its a 100% always live wire with no safety measures so its an area of concern. With my current setup I can manually disconnect the wires but the switch is coming. There are quite a few ways the the cable can be shorted the more common is poor routing but I have also read: front end collision puncturing the wire puncture, twisting of frame and body while offroading wearing down the wire, & a rollover causing a wire. Its hard to predict what each panel will do in the event of an accident and again I think its unlikely. My goal here is to safely cover and route the wires & receive feedback on if I poorly routed the wires. Trying to keep the rig as safe as possible.

 

[CodaMan]

I agree, safety is paramount. Then some type of overload protection would be necessary. Under normal use a winch can draw >400 amps, and getting overload protection to be efficient in stopping a potential fire and still allowing the winch to operate is a problem.

 

[CodaMan]

The best setup would be some type of solenoid that can handle a continuous throughput of 500 amps that can be controlled from inside the cab.

 

[JamesAndTheSahara]

The best setup would be some type of solenoid that can handle a continuous throughput of 500 amps that can be controlled from inside the cab.

The PAC500 is used commonly here. Although for my uses, since I always winch with hoods open, a manual switch is not very hard and fail proof.

 

[CodaMan]

The PAC500 is used commonly here. Although for my uses, since I always winch with hoods open, a manual switch is not very hard and fail proof.

Well, that would be the safest way yo go. You would just keep the winch isolated and when you need to use it just flip a switch in the cab or wherever.

 

[ac_]

I am curious to see if you guys find a solution that doesn't take too much power from the battery to the winch. For the most part you will be ok for quick jerks, but if you are both pumpkin deep and need to drag your winch for a while that may be an issue. Just saying. I personally routed mine straight to the battery. I am a little leery of mine only because both of my cables are touching my low side AC there is really no safer way to get around it. I do have conduit as you do and am thinking of adding a cut rubber hose right at that point. They are not touching very hard and I am not worried about the battery cables as much as the low side line. I will inspect this every drive for a while then every oil change, but other than that I am pretty happy with the routing.

Now that said. I really wanted to route like you did through the grill but I couldn't fit my cables behind the headlights without major pinching. I say if you can get it through there and it fits without rubbing or pinching go for it, but I cannot see your complete route through your pictures.

Oh and lastly I special order my battery cables from a guy on ebay, he makes them whatever gauge and length I need. He is very reasonable, and quick turnaround. I have upgraded all of my battery cables on both my RAM and my TJ to a higher gauge wire from him. I did not replace the ones for my winch only because of how the solenoid pack is made for the two gauge, but I will most likely upgrade them and hog out the holes in the pack when they need to be replaced. Also they fit pretty good length wise. If they were too long I would have replaced them too.

 

[JamesAndTheSahara]

I am curious to see if you guys find a solution that doesn't take too much power from the battery to the winch. For the most part you will be ok for quick jerks, but if you are both pumpkin deep and need to drag your winch for a while that may be an issue. Just saying. I personally routed mine straight to the battery. I am a little leery of mine only because both of my cables are touching my low side AC there is really no safer way to get around it. I do have conduit as you do and am thinking of adding a cut rubber hose right at that point. They are not touching very hard and I am not worried about the battery cables as much as the low side line. I will inspect this every drive for a while then every oil change, but other than that I am pretty happy with the routing.

Now that said. I really wanted to route like you did through the grill but I couldn't fit my cables behind the headlights without major pinching. I say if you can get it through there and it fits without rubbing or pinching go for it, but I cannot see your complete route through your pictures.

Oh and lastly I special order my battery cables from a guy on ebay, he makes them whatever gauge and length I need. He is very reasonable, and quick turnaround. I have upgraded all of my battery cables on both my RAM and my TJ to a higher gauge wire from him. I did not replace the ones for my winch only because of how the solenoid pack is made for the two gauge, but I will most likely upgrade them and hog out the holes in the pack when they need to be replaced. Also they fit pretty good length wise. If they were too long I would have replaced them too.

Mine are the warn factory 2 gauge leads. It was tight, but being as it was tight with the headlight bucket I was confident running it this way. The wires can still be pulled freely in and out the the rear of the headlight hole. I routed mine exactly as shown below:

 

[ac_]

Mine are the warn factory 2 gauge leads. It was tight, but being as it was tight with the headlight bucket I was confident running it this way. The wires can still be pulled freely in and out the the rear of the headlight hole. I routed mine exactly as shown below:

View attachment 26741

Did you drill any holes coming out of the backside of the core support? That is were it would be too tight for me. I actually did exactly what you did running the wires from the switch inside. I had plenty of room for those wires, but the battery cables I couldn't find an exit route through the core support safely, but I know there is a difference between how the AC is routed between yours and mine. My low side AC line comes from the firewall straight into the core support where yours goes up over your fender first. That may be the difference. You may have a bigger hole in the back side of the core support than I do.

 

[bobthetj03]

I think the safest way to route the main wires would be along the inside of the frame rail, then straight up to the battery, thus bypassing any routing thru sheetmetal. Also, why couldn't you just extend that cable disconnect as close to the battery as possible and just unplug it while not in use? That way you don't have constant hot going to the winch in case of a crash or other unlikely event?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I'm a strong believer in the K.I.S.S. principle when it comes to high current devices and their power cables. That means no circuit breaker, fuses, etc. in the winch circuit which can easily draw >400 amps on a heavy pull. The same reason automotive engineers don't install fuses or circuit breakers in the cabling that connects to the starter motor... a very similar motor to what is used inside a winch. Winch cables can be worn through and cause a short if you don't route them away from sharp edged body parts. Or in cases where you need to route next to the grill or tub as my winch cables are, simply protect them at those locations with short pieces of old garden hose slit up the side and placed over the winch cable and held in place by a couple zip ties.

Major winch manufacturers including Warn all direct in their instructions to connect their winches directly to the battery with no recommendations for fuses, switches, or circuit breakers. Only some of the low-end oddball low-end brands like HFT's Badland winches come with strange circuit breaker designs... Badlands places three 150 amp circuit breakers in parallel to protect their winches, a crazy design that a good electrical engineer would not have even dreamed of doing like that.

 

[JamesAndTheSahara]

Did you drill any holes coming out of the backside of the core support? That is were it would be too tight for me. I actually did exactly what you did running the wires from the switch inside. I had plenty of room for those wires, but the battery cables I couldn't find an exit route through the core support safely, but I know there is a difference between how the AC is routed between yours and mine. My low side AC line comes from the firewall straight into the core support where yours goes up over your fender first. That may be the difference. You may have a bigger hole in the back side of the core support than I do.

No holes drilled, it barely cleared the most left hole. I'll take better photos tomorrow.

I think the safest way to route the main wires would be along the inside of the frame rail, then straight up to the battery, thus bypassing any routing thru sheetmetal. Also, why couldn't you just extend that cable disconnect as close to the battery as possible and just unplug it while not in use? That way you don't have constant hot going to the winch in case of a crash or other unlikely event?

I'll have to look again but I believe there was a good reason I didn't do that. I believe it was quite exposed but I will look again tomorrow.

I'm a strong believer in the K.I.S.S. principle when it comes to high current devices and their power cables. That means no circuit breaker, fuses, etc. in the winch circuit which can easily draw >400 amps on a heavy pull. The same reason automotive engineers don't install fuses or circuit breakers in the cabling that connects to the starter motor... a very similar motor to what is used inside a winch. Winch cables can be worn through and cause a short if you don't route them away from sharp edged body parts. Or in cases where you need to route next to the grill or tub as my winch cables are, simply protect them at those locations with short pieces of old garden hose slit up the side and placed over the winch cable and held in place by a couple zip ties.

Major winch manufacturers including Warn all direct in their instructions to connect their winches directly to the battery with no recommendations for fuses, switches, or circuit breakers. Only some of the low-end oddball low-end brands like HFT's Badland winches come with strange circuit breaker designs... Badlands places three 150 amp circuit breakers in parallel to protect their winches, a crazy design that a good electrical engineer would not have even dreamed of doing like that.

Agreed.

 

[ac_]

I'll have to look again but I believe there was a good reason I didn't do that. I believe it was quite exposed but I will look again tomorrow.

Because probably as mine the frame is boxed and there is no real protection to stop it from moving and chafing unless you drilled lots of holes and installed perfectly sized cable holders every few inches. It would also give you a ton of extra cable.

I routed mine under the core support up the body behind the low pressure AC hose, and up over the inner fender, one on each side of the fuse box, and it fit perfectly on my second battery with little to no excess. I mean there was a little for play if necessary, but it is not sloppy. The do lay over the factory sway bar and are zip tied together right there, but not to the sway bar. This will be another point I check every oil change. If it seems to be an issue I will do what Jerry recommended, and put a short piece of hose around the sway bar there.

BTW Jerry, I decided to just go ahead and bypass the ground at the solenoid pack, so I didn't have to route two extra wires in and out of the cab. I have ran winches for years like that. Didn't see it necessary to change now. The switch works inside the cab as well as the remote if I ever want to use that.

 

[ChadRay13]

I'm a strong believer in the K.I.S.S. principle when it comes to high current devices and their power cables. That means no circuit breaker, fuses, etc. in the winch circuit which can easily draw >400 amps on a heavy pull. The same reason automotive engineers don't install fuses or circuit breakers in the cabling that connects to the starter motor... a very similar motor to what is used inside a winch. Winch cables can be worn through and cause a short if you don't route them away from sharp edged body parts. Or in cases where you need to route next to the grill or tub as my winch cables are, simply protect them at those locations with short pieces of old garden hose slit up the side and placed over the winch cable and held in place by a couple zip ties.

Major winch manufacturers including Warn all direct in their instructions to connect their winches directly to the battery with no recommendations for fuses, switches, or circuit breakers. Only some of the low-end oddball low-end brands like HFT's Badland winches come with strange circuit breaker designs... Badlands places three 150 amp circuit breakers in parallel to protect their winches, a crazy design that a good electrical engineer would not have even dreamed of doing like that.

Hey Jerry,

I'm working on piecing together everything I need for a winch and this might be a silly question: would there be any downside to getting some black garden hose, cutting it to length and fishing the disassembled winch wire through it? This way there is the added protection the entire length of the cable?

 

[tworley]

I put my cables into plastic wiring loom and zip tied them together to keep them from shifting/moving. They run underneath the grill and up the backside along the fender and wired straight to the battery. Its been that way for 5 years and no issues yet.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Hey Jerry,

I'm working on piecing together everything I need for a winch and this might be a silly question: would there be any downside to getting some black garden hose, cutting it to length and fishing the disassembled winch wire through it? This way there is the added protection the entire length of the cable?

That's an excellent idea and it does work really well. My winch cables pass through the same stuff in the grill area. Garden hose is fairly thick stuff compared to plastic wire loom and it'll continue protecting for many years.

 

[J.Pierce]

I didn't do it yet, but I plan to pick up some hydraulic hose protector sleeve and cover mine.
They also make a thick spiral wrap for hydraulic hose that would be a good protector as well, but a little more ridged and less bend radius.
Just a couple other options.