Daily Driver Brake Recommendations

After seeing the much higher prices, I must ask…..

Where can I find all this unbiased documented analysis of Black Magic Brakes and proving grounds vs other sold OTC premium options??

I come from the classic car protouring hot rodding community with 2 heavily modded cars, and drag racing…… so Im curious as Wranglers arent a “go fast” kinda hobby

The odd thing about “feedback” is its from seat of the pants feeling going from fading brakes to new brakes regardless of brand and not really scientific in the approach. Hence why I ask. Just askin for proving grounds that prove a products value

Have you tried doing a search on Google ?

https://www.google.com/search?q=bla...69i65.14359j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#ip=1

I was gonna ask if theres a rear drum swap to disc thread somewhere as IMO thats a low end aspect to modify. I had to swap rear ends in my Olds 442 to achieve it tho

The kits ae all over the place. To point you in the right direction more information is needed. Which rear axle do you have? Dana 35 or Dana 44?

https://www.google.com/search?q=jee...ABFMABAcgBA9oBBggBEAEYCw&sclient=gws-wiz-serp
 
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After seeing the much higher prices, I must ask…..

Where can I find all this unbiased documented analysis of Black Magic Brakes and proving grounds vs other sold OTC premium options??

I come from the classic car protouring hot rodding community with 2 heavily modded cars, and drag racing……

And you're asking for "unbiased documented analysis" for $135 brake pads that are highly regarded by many members of this forum and others?

:LOL:
 
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After seeing the much higher prices, I must ask…..

Where can I find all this unbiased documented analysis of Black Magic Brakes and proving grounds vs other sold OTC premium options??

I come from the classic car protouring hot rodding community with 2 heavily modded cars, and drag racing…… so Im curious as Wranglers arent a “go fast” kinda hobby

The odd thing about “feedback” is its from seat of the pants feeling going from fading brakes to new brakes regardless of brand and not really scientific in the approach. Hence why I ask. Just askin for proving grounds that prove a products value

I was gonna ask if theres a rear drum swap to disc thread somewhere as IMO thats a low end aspect to modify. I had to swap rear ends in my Olds 442 to achieve it tho

When in the Jeep, do you adjust your driving to account for the brakes not slowing the rig down as quickly and effectively compared to other vehicles you are familiar with?
 
I come from the classic car protouring hot rodding community with 2 heavily modded cars, and drag racing…… so Im curious as Wranglers arent a “go fast” kinda hobby

Speed isn't the thing that matters, it's momentum (mass times the velocity). Do you know how much your Jeep weighs?

BMB is the best in the business and by a very long shot. There is no one that understands every single aspect of brakes like Blaine does, period.

Show me another rig, of any build level .. which can stop like the one below with zero bad habits. Blaine built both the vehicle and the brakes.




You don't have to believe anyone, you can try it for yourself. Go but a set of pads, do a systematic scientific test and convince yourself if you are so inclined.
 
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I thought the Rancho 5000x was the end all be all shock and there’s no point in trying anything different?

Those are one of the okayest budget shocks available from big box retailers. You can grab a set of four at ~$250. The shocks he's referring to are more than double the money for a single shock.
 
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When in the Jeep, do you adjust your driving to account for the brakes not slowing the rig down as quickly and effectively compared to other vehicles you are familiar with?

backing up homer simpson GIF
 
Speed isn't the thing that matters, it's momentum (mass times the velocity). Do you know how much your Jeep weighs?

BMB is the best in the business and by a very long shot. There is no one that understands every single aspect of brakes like Blaine does, period.

Show me another rig, of any build level .. which can stop like the one below with zero bad habits. Blaine built both the vehicle and the brakes.




You don't have to believe anyone, you can try it for yourself. Go but a set of pads, do a systematic scientific test and convince yourself if you are so inclined.

Ive done a Gm Hydraboost swap in other vehicles
This is a huuuuge benefit to any brake upgrade

Without seeing a comparative brand in the hydraboost setup, its a hard thing to really gauge

https://www.drivingline.com/article...ck-project-deserves-a-stopping-power-upgrade/
 
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And you're asking for "unbiased documented analysis" for $135 brake pads that are highly regarded by many members of this forum and others?

:LOL:
I get the whole “sest of the pants” analysis, but its not exactly scientific in its approach. Having seen alot of brake companies make claims, and guys praise XYZ brand its a fair inquiry so any customer can SEE the differences

No comparisons makes one question it
 
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When in the Jeep, do you adjust your driving to account for the brakes not slowing the rig down as quickly and effectively compared to other vehicles you are familiar with?

Yes
I do not drive any other vehicles that handle & brake as loosely as the Jeep does, with drum brakes still. Suspension and steering are a factor to address also

I own an F150 also that stops better to be fair, and I DD an F250 at work as well as diesel Internationals with air brakes.

Thats why I am looking into braking upgrades, and Hydraboost was on my list of possibilities
 
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Is asking for comparative results videos a large request??

I get the whole “sest of the pants” analysis, but its not exactly scientific in its approach. Having seen alot of brake companies make claims, its a fair request

Black Magic Brakes is not a multinational corporation. It's a one man band that puts out specialty products for the TJ that just plain work. If they didn't, mrblaine wouldn't offer them. He'll even talk you out of a purchase if he thinks you don't need his product. He's just that honest. Additionally, we like to support a guy who is generous with his understanding and experience with TJs. You'll have to take us at our word or not and look elsewhere. I've run OEM, EBC yellows and Black Magic Brakes pads and the Black Magic Brakes pads are the best of the bunch. If you're not running larger tires, don't brake aggressively or you don't currently have problems emergency braking, you don't need BMB pads.
 
Ive done a Gm Hydraboost swap in other vehicles
This is a huuuuge benefit to any brake upgrade
Yes and no. I've dealt with many. I run it on one of mine, reworked it on several and I've installed it on many. What most overlook is if you get to the point where you need better brakes enough that hydroboost is a viable option, you need a good foundation for the install of HB to make any sense. Sadly, the TJ caliper is a very old design which started in 1990ish. It was in use up through 2006 and should have been converted to saddle mount long before the JK came out.

What happens is when you get enough pressure into the caliper to increase your braking a safe level which is easy to do with HB, the cast slider reaction bars on the knuckles that the pads reside in start bending. Second thing that happens is the pads wear at a severe angle due to the caliper flexing open too easily. The consequence of that is as that increases, each stop then has to have enough input pressure to bring the pad face into contact with the rotor face and that equates to a much higher pedal input than the stop would normally require.
Without seeing a comparative brand in the hydraboost setup, its a hard thing to really gauge

[URL][URL]https://www.drivingline.c...ck-project-deserves-a-stopping-power-upgrade/[/URL][/URL]
That is a terrible article. It is very highly biased and was written by someone with very limited experience with HB and that experience is with one that was done poorly. HB is very easily set up to avoid what we call Hydroboost pedal which is when the installer used a master that is far too large in bore diameter for the piston surface area. That creates a pedal that goes from rest to full lock up of the brakes in a very short and very uncomfortable amount of stroke. The OEM doesn't do it that way, nor should we. It is a simple thing to acquire a smaller bore master, increase the pedal stroke to be more like stock and get a level of modulation in there that is more fun to drive.

HB is capable of very high pressures into the calipers. Stock TJ is as high as 1700 by my gauge and average is 13-1500 psi. HB runs around 20-2300psi, and the highest psi I've ever put into a system was 27-2800 psi and that was done with a vacuum booster I did a custom install on.

My personal preference is HB set up correctly. If I had my way, every brake kit I sell would come with HB because it is an awesome way to make great stuff even better. I just can not figure out how to do that at any affordable level.

If you do want HB, it is hard to beat the folks at Vanco. They have been high flowing them for as long as I've been dicking with TJ brakes, likely longer.
 
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I get the whole “sest of the pants” analysis, but its not exactly scientific in its approach. Having seen alot of brake companies make claims, and guys praise XYZ brand its a fair inquiry so any customer can SEE the differences

No comparisons makes one question it

Have you ever done any serious testing of brakes and brake parts to try and deliver that comparison you are requesting?

Early on, we did and here is what we discovered. Nothing is consistent. If there is a human driver involved, there are variables. If there is a road surface involved, there are variables. If there are ambient temps involved, there are variables. If there is more than one stop involved, there are variables.

That all seems like a giant cop-out but it isn't. The first stop from cold can be shorter or longer than the next stop and then depending on the pad and its favorite temps, the last stop is shorter or longer. Temps makes some pads bite harder while others go into hot fade at the same temps.

Then we have the issue of liability. If I publish a stopping distance from 60 to 0 of 120 feet and then you rear end someone at that distance, you might be inclined to disagree with that number.

The point of all that is there is no good way in this country to derive any meaningful number that is consistent across all manufacturers that gives an easy benchmark for comparison. There is one good way but we don't use it here in this country. The UK does it, I can't afford the machine.

So we resort to the most terrible benchmark possible but it is one that does give a good comparison. Can you lock up your front tires? Yes, then you don't need anything after that except some comfort bits to make it more fun to drive. If you can't, now you know you have a problem and need to take care of something.
 
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Here's the Vanco Hydroboost for Jeeps page.

I have a Vanco kit on my TJ & run 38" tires and it stops it just fine.

Careful there. It is contrary to your anti-sheep stance to recommend something I've been involved in developing. We installed a Vanco HB on my buddy's ZJ around 2000 or so and the "kit" was terrible. We had to modify practically every part of it to get it to work. I mentioned the same on a forum in response to someone asking about HB and Van did the most surprising thing, rather than get irritated and offended, he got in touch and said "alright, my kit sucks, help me fix it and make it better". That was the beginning of what turned into a great friendship that endures to this very day. Also why all the big brake kits I developed for them still carry the Vanco name even though I have been producing them solely for the last 14 years.
 
Careful there. It is contrary to your anti-sheep stance to recommend something I've been involved in developing. We installed a Vanco HB on my buddy's ZJ around 2000 or so and the "kit" was terrible. We had to modify practically every part of it to get it to work. I mentioned the same on a forum in response to someone asking about HB and Van did the most surprising thing, rather than get irritated and offended, he got in touch and said "alright, my kit sucks, help me fix it and make it better". That was the beginning of what turned into a great friendship that endures to this very day. Also why all the big brake kits I developed for them still carry the Vanco name even though I have been producing them solely for the last 14 years.

I've NEVER had any issues with things you've been involved in developing.... Sorry you feel this way...