Nothing happens when turning the key

[rmasteller]

Background:
2006 LJR Automatic
Seldom used in last couple years.
Battery is a 2019 Optima.
Needed to move it off the driveway last week, after a few hours charging I only got some "click, click, click" when turning the key. Pushed it off the driveway. Yesterday, put it on a 10a "smart" charger for 4-5 hours, and the charger eventually displayed the "bad battery" light. It wasn't taking the charge but did for the first couple hours. Tried again today and this time connected the charger directly to the battery posts, not the battery cable clamps. The light for "fully charged" came on after 5 hours or so. Got in the Jeep and turned the key with absolutely no results. No dash or curtesy lights, no clicking, no nothing. Got out the multi meter and touched the contacts to the battery terminals, got 12.28v. Touched the contacts to the battery cable clamps and got the same 12.28v. The mice have been in the engine bay (and I assume over the transmission, in the frame rails, etc.), but I've never found mouse droppings inside the Jeep. So, I highly doubt any wires inside have been chewed. In the engine bay, there is a couple examples of some insulation having been chewed, but nothing major. I traced the cables from the battery.
- Wire to fuse/relay box near air filter is fine.
- Wire to starter is fine.
- Wire to alternator is fine.
- Wires to ground on block and firewall are fine.

What would be the first fuses and relays to check?
Do I need to remove those grounds and clean them?
Is there a tutorial here explaining what is involved in the system between turning the key and the battery energizing the starter?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[JKP]

You have a bad battery.

The FSM for your Jeep is available under the Resources section.

 

[hear]

I'd check the ground connections if you're literally getting nothing and the battery is showing 12V.

 

[CharlesHS]

Optima batteries require a different style charger.
The battery is pulsed with a higher regulated voltage for 6-12 hours.

https://www.optimabatteries.com/products/chargers/

 

[william_m_molnar]

Background:
2006 LJR Automatic
Seldom used in last couple years.
Battery is a 2019 Optima.
Needed to move it off the driveway last week, after a few hours charging I only got some "click, click, click" when turning the key. Pushed it off the driveway. Yesterday, put it on a 10a "smart" charger for 4-5 hours, and the charger eventually displayed the "bad battery" light. It wasn't taking the charge but did for the first couple hours. Tried again today and this time connected the charger directly to the battery posts, not the battery cable clamps. The light for "fully charged" came on after 5 hours or so. Got in the Jeep and turned the key with absolutely no results. No dash or curtesy lights, no clicking, no nothing. Got out the multi meter and touched the contacts to the battery terminals, got 12.28v. Touched the contacts to the battery cable clamps and got the same 12.28v. The mice have been in the engine bay (and I assume over the transmission, in the frame rails, etc.), but I've never found mouse droppings inside the Jeep. So, I highly doubt any wires inside have been chewed. In the engine bay, there is a couple examples of some insulation having been chewed, but nothing major. I traced the cables from the battery.
- Wire to fuse/relay box near air filter is fine.
- Wire to starter is fine.
- Wire to alternator is fine.
- Wires to ground on block and firewall are fine.

What would be the first fuses and relays to check?
Do I need to remove those grounds and clean them?
Is there a tutorial here explaining what is involved in the system between turning the key and the battery energizing the starter?

Thanks in advance for your help.

If I was you I’d take a wire and attemp to “Hotwire” the starter with the relay to a battery post only for a few seconds just to see if it’ll attempt

 

[Minderbinder3]

I would say that your battery connections are the likely cause. Clean them and reconnect and see if you get something. I don’t know anything about the Optima batteries though.

 

[hear]

I would say that your battery connections are the likely cause. Clean them and reconnect and see if you get something. I don’t know anything about the Optima batteries though.

Me neither, but I'm confident they still require solid connections on both posts.

 

[JAYNE]

Background:
2006 LJR Automatic
Seldom used in last couple years.
Battery is a 2019 Optima.
Needed to move it off the driveway last week, after a few hours charging I only got some "click, click, click" when turning the key. Pushed it off the driveway. Yesterday, put it on a 10a "smart" charger for 4-5 hours, and the charger eventually displayed the "bad battery" light. It wasn't taking the charge but did for the first couple hours. Tried again today and this time connected the charger directly to the battery posts, not the battery cable clamps. The light for "fully charged" came on after 5 hours or so. Got in the Jeep and turned the key with absolutely no results. No dash or curtesy lights, no clicking, no nothing. Got out the multi meter and touched the contacts to the battery terminals, got 12.28v. Touched the contacts to the battery cable clamps and got the same 12.28v. The mice have been in the engine bay (and I assume over the transmission, in the frame rails, etc.), but I've never found mouse droppings inside the Jeep. So, I highly doubt any wires inside have been chewed. In the engine bay, there is a couple examples of some insulation having been chewed, but nothing major. I traced the cables from the battery.
- Wire to fuse/relay box near air filter is fine.
- Wire to starter is fine.
- Wire to alternator is fine.
- Wires to ground on block and firewall are fine.

What would be the first fuses and relays to check?
Do I need to remove those grounds and clean them?
Is there a tutorial here explaining what is involved in the system between turning the key and the battery energizing the starter?

Thanks in advance for your help.

X2 Your battery is bad…. My yellow top did the same thing almost word for word which led me to replacing both battery, alternator, and associated wiring for shits and giggles. Did the latter first… It was the battery the whole time.

Start with the battery throw a battery you know is good on there and see if it fires up. If it does, great! Get a top of the line agm thats not optima.

If it’s still no go with a battery you know is good then start troubleshooting for other causes.

My yellow top was a 2021 manufacture date and lasted under a year.

 

[rmasteller]

Thanks everyone. Seems we have 3 main theories at the moment.

Battery Terminal Connection Theory:

I test voltage by touching the cables, but maybe that's insufficient. I did have problems with this in the past and put lead shims over the posts. Seemed to have solved the problem at the time. No white material build up on the posts. I will remove and reseat.

Bad Battery Theory:

12.28v is a dead battery? I went back out today (it was down in the 40's last night) and tested it. Shows 12.10v, so it is losing some charge. I test on the cable clamp in hopes of avoiding the Bad Terminal Connection issue.

Regarding the charging of it, I have an Optima Redtop 75/25-925. According to https://www.optimabatteries.com/products/chargers/ the charging requirements are:

OPTIMA REDTOP® CHARGING INFORMATION
The following charging methods are recommended to ensure a long battery life. Always use a voltage-regulated charger, with voltage limits set as described below.

REDTOP Type: 34 & 34R - 34/78 - 78 - 25 & 35 - 75/25
These batteries are designed for engine starting applications. They are NOT recommended or warranted for use in deep-cycle applications.

Recommended charging information:
- Alternator: 13.3 to 15.0 volts, no amperage limit.
- Battery Charger: 13.8 to 15.0 volts, 10 amps maximum, for approximately six to twelve hours.
- Rapid Recharge: Maximum voltage 15.6 volts (regulated), no current limit as long as battery temperature remains below 125°F (51.7°C). Charge until current drops below one amp.
- Float Charge: 13.2 to 13.8 volts, one amp maximum current, time indefinite (at lower voltage).

My charger says:
Input: 120v AC, 0.6A continuous, 3A intermittent
Output: 12v DC, 2A continuous, 10A intermittent, 55 seconds maximum On, 120 seconds minimum Off

@CharlesHS may be on to something when saying "The battery is pulsed with a higher regulated voltage for 6-12 hours." Seems the battery wants more voltage than my charger is putting out? Did my charger damage/kill my battery? I looked at the Optima charger and the only spec they give is the amperage (12A or 4A on their chargers), not voltage.

I have a known good batter in another car that is easy to get out, but it is long and may not fit in the compact space the Jeep has. I'll give it a shot later today/tonight.

Ground Connection Theory:

I can get to those two main grounds pretty easily, I think. So, I'll try disconnecting and cleaning those.

 

[B1Toad]

While 12.28 is not great (it's a little over 1/2) it should be enough to crank the engine. If you can get a helper hold the probes of a multi meter on the battery and have someone turn the key. If the voltage takes a big hit, like 9 or less, the battery is toast. If it doesn't drop at all you have a bad connection. (any battery will drop in volts when cranking but if it gets into the single digits right away it's not up to the job) Corrosion not only builds up where the lead clamps connect to the battery posts but it also impregnates into the cables, usually the positive, and sometimes you have to cut back or replace the cable. Also check the connections at the starter and the engine block ground.
I have a Harbor Freight Carbon Pile Load Tester which works great for testing but kind of a pain.

 

[mudmaster]

Just a shot:

 

[rmasteller]

Yeah, that's theory #4, Failed Ignition Switch or Actuator.

 

[JAYNE]

Good luck!!

 

[rmasteller]

While 12.28 is not great (it's a little over 1/2) it should be enough to crank the engine. If you can get a helper hold the probes of a multi meter on the battery and have someone turn the key. If the voltage takes a big hit, like 9 or less, the battery is toast. If it doesn't drop at all you have a bad connection. (any battery will drop in volts when cranking but if it gets into the single digits right away it's not up to the job).

@B1Toad
Got a helper yesterday. No drop in voltage at all when turning the key. And as previously posted, no odometer, idiot lights, or dome lights. I think @mudmaster might be on to something with the switch, unless there are specific fuses or relays to check first.

 

[mudmaster]

@B1Toad
Got a helper yesterday. No drop in voltage at all when turning the key. And as previously posted, no odometer, idiot lights, or dome lights. I think @mudmaster might be on to something with the switch, unless there are specific fuses or relays to check first.

This was my issue a few years ago. I replaced it and carry one as a spare.

 

[rmasteller]

Updating my old thread.

Battery Terminal Connection Theory:
I replaced the cable terminal on the negative cable. That's the one that required the shim, so I bought an appropriately sized one. Everything is clean and tight. No difference.

Failed Ignition Switch or Actuator:
Took the steering column cover off and took the ignition key assembly out. No physical broken parts like the one shown in video above. Everything physically moves around fine and seems normal. Is there a way to test the actual switch part with a multimeter, or do you just have to replace and see if it helps? I assume a bad ignition switch could create my symptoms of no idiot lights, no dome lights?

Bad Battery Theory:
Old NAPA 'smart' battery charger would only charge the Optima to about 12.2v. I bought a 10amp battery charger that specifically has an AGM setting and it would only charge to about 12.6v before indicating "done". Took the battery to Advanced Auto Parts and they hooked it up to their tester, which showed 12.5v and it estimated it would put out about 80 more CCA than specified on the label. I left it with them for a couple hours to let them charge it and when I came back they tested it again and it read 13.0v and estimated 100 more CCA than on the label. They say it's a good battery.

Also, swapped relays in engine bay electronics box behind the air cleaner. No difference.
Also, pulled & checked every fuse in engine bay and behind glove box. All OK and no difference.

My wife still assumes it is a 'mouse v. wire' problem. I did find where mice had chewed a hole in the foam seal/insulation where the hard A/C lines pass through the firewall. That is upsetting, because there may be a nest behind the dash somewhere. It doesn't smell bad in the Jeep, and I've never found mouse poop inside the jeep. But, a chewed wire is not out of the question.

What do you guys recommend next? Replacing that ignition switch? Could the neutral safety switch cause no idiot dash lights, or would it simply prevent the starter from engaging? Still thinking bad ground because no dome lights when opening the door?

Thanks.

 

[hear]

What do you guys recommend next? Replacing that ignition switch? Could the neutral safety switch cause no idiot dash lights, or would it simply prevent the starter from engaging? Still thinking bad ground because no dome lights when opening the door?

NSS will only prevent the starter from turning, dash lights should come on & gauge cluster will run a self test when the key is turned to on, prior to trying to start it. I didn't re-read this thread for content, but I didn't see if you had really investigated all the grounds. They can come loose & get corroded and will cause all sorts of strange problems.

 

[rmasteller]

@hear I'm not even getting dome light when opening door. When turning the key, I don't get self test dash lights. Some basic fundamental electrical circuit is not working. I'll try to work on all the grounds. I have downloaded the service manual, so I should be able to find all the grounds.

 

[QuietListener]

If you have access to a scanner that can read live data, I would watch the PCM data for ignition switch to see if it is sending out the start command when key is turned to start position.

Also, there may be codes stored that aren't triggering your check engine light but could clue you in to wires or sensors experiencing ground outs or low voltage issues. Could help narrow where mice have been if that is the case.

 

[rmasteller]

If you have access to a scanner that can read live data, I would watch the PCM data for ignition switch to see if it is sending out the start command when key is turned to start position.

Also, there may be codes stored that aren't triggering your check engine light but could clue you in to wires or sensors experiencing ground outs or low voltage issues. Could help narrow where mice have been if that is the case.

Nope, no scanner. Just a simple OBDII code reader. But, how can I get codes if I have no power?

This Wranger has been pretty reliable so far. But, if I need to get into doing more repairs over time, what would one get for a "scanner"? Is this something that connects to the same OBDII port, or is there some special factory/dealership port under the hood?