Frame may be bent

[connor grimes]

installing my new rear bumper today, when attempting to attatch the bumper-frame tie ins...they're way off. The brackets are square, as is the bumper. Outside of taking it to a frame shop to get it pulled ( probably not doing that) my thought was to just get some longer bolts and some washers to fill the void a little bit. Any thoughts?

 

[macleanflood]

I'd get some longer bolts and try to draw it in a little.

Your method is valid.

-Mac

 

[Foxhound67]

I would have no qualms with drawing the tie-in to the frame

 

[Murf926]

If I'm seeing what I think I am, in that both sides are are about the same amount off, I'd be way more suspect of the brackets having less than stellar tolerances (especially if they come from China) than the frame being bent. Is there any other indication of your frame being bent? Does it drive straight down the road? If you have someone follow you, does it look like it's running true, or does it look like it's crab walking? Do your tires wear funky?

If there are no other indications of a frame issue, I'm with mac, try the method you described.

 

[primetime4]

These appear to be Poison Spider tie ins like mine and if so, I think that is normal. My set fit the same and my frame is unmolested. I just got the bolts started on each side before tightening them down with no issues. I believe it’s by design to ensure everything pulls together when tightened vs leaving a gap.

 

[Rickyd]

installing my new rear bumper today, when attempting to attatch the bumper-frame tie ins...they're way off. The brackets are square, as is the bumper. Outside of taking it to a frame shop to get it pulled ( probably not doing that) my thought was to just get some longer bolts and some washers to fill the void a little bit. Any thoughts?

View attachment 539250

View attachment 539251

Don't worry about it. But for reference heres the specs you can use with plumb bobs and a flat piece of concrete

 

[cpwolf]

Mine were similar, had a smaller gap and pulled it tight. Big jump to bent frame, ha, but I get it.

Cool diagram @Rickyd i’m gonna save that to my TJ OneDrive folder, and hope I never need it, ha

 

[mrblaine]

If I'm seeing what I think I am, in that both sides are are about the same amount off, I'd be way more suspect of the brackets having less than stellar tolerances (especially if they come from China) than the frame being bent. Is there any other indication of your frame being bent? Does it drive straight down the road? If you have someone follow you, does it look like it's running true, or does it look like it's crab walking? Do your tires wear funky?

If there are no other indications of a frame issue, I'm with mac, try the method you described.

Same thing I see. If the frame were bent inwards the same amount on both sides like that, it would be very obvious and also very difficult to do since that section of frame is held in place by the shock crossmember and rear crossmember. Almost impossible to bend it like the brackets show. My money is on the brackets having an issue.

 

[LONGJP2]

installing my new rear bumper today, when attempting to attatch the bumper-frame tie ins...they're way off. The brackets are square, as is the bumper. Outside of taking it to a frame shop to get it pulled ( probably not doing that) my thought was to just get some longer bolts and some washers to fill the void a little bit. Any thoughts?

Mine were the same way.
Are you sure the brackets are square?
I ended up cutting the gusset, tightening the bolts, then rewelding the gap.

 

[connor grimes]

Does anyone have any tips on getting a wrench in there for the bolts , can’t seem to get anything to fit at the right angle to tighten the bolts that attach to the frame section

 

[Murf926]

Mine were the same way.
Are you sure the brackets are square?
I ended up cutting the gusset, tightening the bolts, then rewelding the gap.

That's the other thing I was going to recommend, but wasn't sure if the OP was a welder.

 

[connor grimes]

brackets were definitely square, it has to be something with the frame

 

[Murf926]

brackets were definitely square, it has to be something with the frame

Again, is there any other evidence of frame damage? It's hard to say what could be out of whack without looking in person, but frame damage seems highly unlikely.

@mrblaine knows his shit. I completely agree with his explanation of why it's almost impossible for the frame to be bent in the way you suspect it is. I think your best course of action is to do some measuring according to the frame diagram @Rickyd posted above if you need to prove to yourself that your frame is fine, then come up with a plan to secure your brackets. Spacers (washers, or whatever) between the bracket and frame would work, but cutting and rewelding would be better if you have that capability.

The only way I could see the frame possibly being out of whack the way you suspect it is, is if someone, at some point, cut the rear crossmember from the frame, purposely forced the ends of the frame rails outward (not easy to do), and rewelded the crossmember back to the frame, but for what possible purpose? Even if that was the case, I don't think your rear body mounts would work as designed because the repositioned frame rails would more than likely interfere with them. By looking at your pictures, your rear body mounts appear intact as designed by the factory.

 

[mrblaine]

brackets were definitely square, it has to be something with the frame

The rear crossmember has two dimpled rectangles that the ends of the frame tube sides butt into. There is very little margin for error there. You can pull the rear bumper and check easily. There are holes that would show if the frame were welded wrong to the crossmember. That and I can see in one of your pictures that the frame end is exactly where it is supposed to be for at least one side. If the frame end is very much outward from where it is supposed to be, you won't get the lower half of the body mount installed.

The amount of angle difference when extrapolated out would put the frame arches hard into the sides of the tub.

What is more likely is your new bumper has pulled the crossmember wings outward towards the rear which tweaked those reinforcement brackets to look the way they do. Or, you missed that when you installed the bumper and didn't notice it from previous damage.

I'd be more concerned about the bolt strength than getting those brackets to fit. A2 70 bolts are not enough stronger than Grade 2 to warrant their use in a rear bumper application.

 

[connor grimes]

Thanks guys for the time,

The measurements were accurate, and no welds were present indicating it had not been patched before. So after measuring it's not the frame as mentioned by others above. I was able to put grade 8 bolts through the frame which was a pain. I wound up ordering an offset wrench off amazon as its the only way to fit a wrench through the access hole and behind the nuts ( would love any tips y'all have in getting a wrench inside the frame to tighten the bolts)
Starting frame side first, I was then able to get a bolt and nut on the bumper side attachment point. Tightening this eventually snugged itself all together, though I'm still not sure where the error lay. The brackets were square as they fit perfectly in my carpenter square, and the frame measurements were spot on as listed above. Anyways, in the end the bumper is on and all is well. Thanks guys, will post a pic tomorrow.

 

[chili_pepper]

Don't worry about it. But for reference heres the specs you can use with plumb bobs and a flat piece of concrete
View attachment 539259View attachment 539260

Where did you get these and do you have any for the LJ?

Been hunting for frame drawings...

 

[Rickyd]

Probably here. I don't remember. No lj specs,but I'd like to have those as well

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Fwiw, I have the same ones and they were a PITA to install on both jeeps I've put them on. I ended up opening up the holes a bit, then starting all 4 bolts in the bracket before tightening any of them up.

. I wound up ordering an offset wrench off amazon as its the only way to fit a wrench through the access hole and behind the nuts ( would love any tips y'all have in getting a wrench inside the frame to tighten the bolts)

I'm confused here. Mine came with the nuts welded to a flat piece of steel, like a double ended flag nut. Once both bolts are started they hold themselves so there was no need to get a wrench back there. Short of that I might go to the hardware store for some serrated flange nuts so they bite in and won't spin once they're hand-tight.

 

[macleanflood]

I just drilled my frame holes through to the other side and used 3.5" 7/16-14 bolts and nylocks.

I also had a quarter inch gap on the passenger side. The 1 inch bolts provided by Dirtworx weren't long enough and I replaced them with 2".

Also going to order a couple of bolt skid plates for the bottom bolts... don't want to snag something on the head, deform the head or anything like that.

https://barnes4wd.com/products/3-8-to-7-16-bolt-head-protector

-Mac

 

[Artsifrtsi]

Thanks guys for the time,

The measurements were accurate, and no welds were present indicating it had not been patched before. So after measuring it's not the frame as mentioned by others above. I was able to put grade 8 bolts through the frame which was a pain. I wound up ordering an offset wrench off amazon as its the only way to fit a wrench through the access hole and behind the nuts ( would love any tips y'all have in getting a wrench inside the frame to tighten the bolts)
Starting frame side first, I was then able to get a bolt and nut on the bumper side attachment point. Tightening this eventually snugged itself all together, though I'm still not sure where the error lay. The brackets were square as they fit perfectly in my carpenter square, and the frame measurements were spot on as listed above. Anyways, in the end the bumper is on and all is well. Thanks guys, will post a pic tomorrow.

Send the ugga-duggas!