NSG370 vs 42RLE

[Rickyd]

Give me a blank sheet of paper and the ability to do whatever I want, it won't be a build on 33's for any reason especially cost of maintenance because that is pretty much a wash.
You have to regear, same cost.
You may have to get a hub kit, same cost.
Tires and rims are scant few percentage points in cost apart.
If you wheel it, you still need a raised belly, armor, bumpers, a winch, and recovery gear. Even more so on 33's since you'll lower and more likely to get hung up.

What line are you seeing that is the big cost difference between a nice 33" tire build and a nice 35" tire build? Or are we just sticking to street driven daily and dirt roads as the wheeling level?

You said it yourself. For daily driving and light wheeling on 31-33s there is no need for hydro assist,big brakes,beadlocks,tucks,travel,etc. If you want a "nice 33" tire build" for rocks with all the bells and whistles you might as well go 35s.

The cost of fuel,parts wear schedules all go up if you build something big for rocks. Then they get broken more often and driven less.

not to say i don't want to keep working on my jeep. Stretching it to lj length for the cargo room and being able to fit a 4 speed auto in it being high on my list.

Speaking of which,i think I've settled on the 42re at 27" long. I see many grand cherokees i could gut and run the pcm,trans and associated parts in my 97. It just needs a stretch to happen. They can be built with parts from v8 and even diesel dodges.

 

[Rickyd]

To be clear I'm not saying guys shouldn't dump tens of thousands into their rigs to make them rock crawlers. Guys that start with daily drivers can wind up with regrets though when the rig doesn't fit their uses anymore

 

[mrblaine]

You said it yourself. For daily driving and light wheeling on 31-33s there is no need for hydro assist,big brakes,beadlocks,tucks,travel,etc. If you want a "nice 33" tire build" for rocks with all the bells and whistles you might as well go 35s.

What will that 33" tire build do that a stock Rubicon on stock tires won't?

The cost of fuel,parts wear schedules all go up if you build something big for rocks. Then they get broken more often and driven less.

I didn't say I was building for the rocks. I'm specifically not building one for the rocks on 35's.

not to say i don't want to keep working on my jeep. Stretching it to lj length for the cargo room and being able to fit a 4 speed auto in it being high on my list.

Speaking of which,i think I've settled on the 42re at 27" long. I see many grand cherokees i could gut and run the pcm,trans and associated parts in my 97. It just needs a stretch to happen. They can be built with parts from v8 and even diesel dodges.

What are the ratios in the 42RE?

 

[Rickyd]

What will that 33" tire build do that a stock Rubicon on stock tires won't?

I didn't say I was building for the rocks. I'm specifically not building one for the rocks on 35's.

What are the ratios in the 42RE?

Then don't build it for rocks. It doesn't change much. Bigger tires, bigger costs.

If i remember right the 42re isn't much different from the 42rle ratios. The draw for me is a 4.0l trans that is controlled by pcm and tcm that will also run my 97.

Being a500 based they can be upgraded too

 

[mrblaine]

Then don't build it for rocks. It doesn't change much. Bigger tires, bigger costs.

Can you break that down for me in some way I can understand?

If i remember right the 42re isn't much different from the 42rle ratios. The draw for me is a 4.0l trans that is controlled by pcm and tcm that will also run my 97.

Being a500 based they can be upgraded too

 

[Rickyd]

Can you break that down for me in some way I can understand?

You understand how that works very well.

So does everyone else here

 

[jjvw]

You understand how that works very well.

So does everyone else here

The difference between a base build for 33s and 35s is a small body lift. Everything else is the same, apart from a slightly larger tire costing slightly more.

 

[Rickyd]

The difference between a base build for 33s and 35s is a small body lift. Everything else is the same, apart from a slightly larger tire costing slightly more.

You're leaving out a few things.

 

[jjvw]

You're leaving out a few things.

I can think of all kinds of common "nice things" that can be added to a 33 and a 35 build that are not dependent on the tire size. I have an entire build thread on such a persuit.

I also know how to come up with a few highly specific oddball builds that can back you into a corner on a tire size. But that isn't what we are doing here.

 

[Rickyd]

I can think of all kinds of common "nice things" that can be added to a 33 and a 35 build that are not dependent on the tire size. I have an entire build thread on such a persuit.

I also know how to come up with a few highly specific oddball builds that can back you into a corner on a tire size. But that isn't what we are doing here.

So since you're being obstinate I'll start you off. For 35's you generally need a bbk and ram assist. Not needed for a bare bones 33's jeep.

There's more...

 

[Apparition]

So since you're being obstinate I'll start you off. For 35's you generally need a bbk and ram assist. Not needed for a bare bones 33's jeep.

There's more...

I’ve wheeled with a lot of guys who have 35’s and don’t have ram assist and they don’t need it.

 

[jjvw]

So since you're being obstinate I'll start you off. For 35's you generally need a bbk and ram assist. Not needed for a bare bones 33's jeep.

There's more...

I'm not being obstinate. Nor do I disagree that good brakes are very important and often dismissed.

 

[mrblaine]

You understand how that works very well.

So does everyone else here

I was figuring I was missing something based on the number of 35" tire builds you have under your belt. I stated previous with the exception of a few minor cost differences, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the two builds cost wise if both are done to similar levels.

 

[mrblaine]

So since you're being obstinate I'll start you off. For 35's you generally need a bbk and ram assist. Not needed for a bare bones 33's jeep.

There's more...

Not even close, I live in rock country and the vast majority of folks don't run hydro assist and only a few more run a BBK. The rig tells you if the BBK is needed, there are too many that don't for it to be a hard and fast rule.

 

[mrblaine]

I’ve wheeled with a lot of guys who have 35’s and don’t have ram assist and they don’t need it.

Yep, hydro-assist is not a requirement until you get into JV and then only on a select few trails. You will still get over them, it is just easier with H/A.

 

[Rickyd]

Not even close, I live in rock country and the vast majority of folks don't run hydro assist and only a few more run a BBK. The rig tells you if the BBK is needed, there are too many that don't for it to be a hard and fast rule.

Ok, i can see you're getting lost on particulars and have no idea what I'm discussing. I have no desire for a repeat of the engine braking discussion where you ignored facts and never answered direct questions. Go read my previous posts on fuel mileage,wear schedules and cost in general as tire size increases. Or that guys overbuild their rigs and abandon them because they become too expensive or lose their utility. It happens time and again.

you aren't an idiot. You can find plenty of your own examples where bigger tires lead to harder use and need more $$.

 

[Rickyd]

I’ve wheeled with a lot of guys who have 35’s and don’t have ram assist and they don’t need it.

Ok,that's good to know.I know i could do a better job making examples. Its just more effort than its worth trying to deal with people who intentionally misconstrue your point.

This is too much like politics or relationships .

 

[mrblaine]

Ok, i can see you're getting lost on particulars and have no idea what I'm discussing. I have no desire for a repeat of the engine braking discussion where you ignored facts and never answered direct questions. Go read my previous posts on fuel mileage,wear schedules and cost in general as tire size increases. Or that guys overbuild their rigs and abandon them because they become too expensive or lose their utility. It happens time and again.

you aren't an idiot. You can find plenty of your own examples where bigger tires lead to harder use and need more $$.

We aren't lost on particulars. You made the assertion that a 33" tire build is far more cost effective than a 35" tire build and the best I can come up with is you are comparing a top of the line beat it to death in the rocks 35" build to a base "grab a Zone lift with stock control arms" 33" build.

If you will define the 33" build a bit better, then we can both deal with the exact same set of facts and parts and see how you arrived at your position.

My position is basic, if the two builds are similar in ability as in the same level of build quality, they just aren't as far apart as your trying to make them out to be.

And similar to the engine braking thread, you make an assertion which was, it can't be geared correctly and still drive on the street, and you are doing the same here. Lay it out so we can discuss how you arrived at your thought processes without throwing it back in my lap saying I should know what you're thinking. I don't and won't. Put the facts out there, we'll talk.

 

[mrblaine]

Ok,that's good to know.I know i could do a better job making examples. Its just more effort than its worth trying to deal with people who intentionally misconstrue your point.

This is too much like politics or relationships .

Try harder.

 

[Rickyd]

We aren't lost on particulars. You made the assertion that a 33" tire build is far more cost effective than a 35" tire build and the best I can come up with is you are comparing a top of the line beat it to death in the rocks 35" build to a base "grab a Zone lift with stock control arms" 33" build.

If you will define the 33" build a bit better, then we can both deal with the exact same set of facts and parts and see how you arrived at your position.

My position is basic, if the two builds are similar in ability as in the same level of build quality, they just aren't as far apart as your trying to make them out to be.

And similar to the engine braking thread, you make an assertion which was, it can't be geared correctly and still drive on the street, and you are doing the same here. Lay it out so we can discuss how you arrived at your thought processes without throwing it back in my lap saying I should know what you're thinking. I don't and won't. Put the facts out there, we'll talk.

It's right there in multiple posts. Including the one you just quoted. Larger tires get worse mileage.they wear out other parts faster and said parts need to be stronger and more expensive for what those tires are capable of.they are less likely to have your wife,mother,kids or anyone important want to ride with you. Almost every metric that a vehicle that gets used often is judged by.

33" or 35,36,37,42" tire builds don’t need to be on the same build level. That wouldn't make sense on mulitiple levels . it's just more misdirection.

As far as the compression braking discussion it was laid out quite clearly that without moving to an overdrive auto(which you've admitted isn't an easy task in a 97-02.and you haven't done to your standards) your suggestion of simply gearing down to compensate isn't useful unless you want to forego freeway speeds. The rpm numbers aren't hard to grasp.You did not acknowledge that the gear ratio spread in a non overdrive auto has compromises.

You did however go silent after resorting to name calling.