Throwout bearing install dilemma

[jeep_boss]

Your flywheel and clutch cover would have been covered with a film. Did you clean that off with some brake clean by chance? I am assuming sso since you have surface rust on your flywheel that is normal. By the way looking at the pictures I don't see anything wrong especially nothing that looks like it would have been rattling.

What I do find odd though is it looks like you only have one alignment dowel on the cover and it looks like it is in a bolt hole. although that said I don't see any extra holes on the flywheel for alignment dowels. Am I looking at that right the the next to the last picture is that a dowel or a bolt?

Also I just noticed you have a crankshaft sensor eccentric on your flywheel is there any chance that was rubbing? Check that for scratches and look at the sensor. It is probably ok, but might be worth a check?

Yeah I probably dropped the ball on cleaning the surfaces. I had it the flywheel with some brake cleaner, but that was about it.

I had to swap the old pressure plate bolts out with new ones, I had installed new socket cap bolts, as one of the old semi-flanged hex bolts disappeared on me.

As far as the alignment dowels - this might have been where I was confused on the last install. There are three dimples on the AMS flywheel - I had positioned the pressure plate on the flywheel, where the three nipples on the plate stick out (thinking that was where it was suppose to seat).

There is no documentation that I can find on lining up the playe with the flywheel, so I have to figure this part out before my replacement parts arrive tomorrow.

 

[ac_]

Yeah I probably dropped the ball on cleaning the surfaces. I had it the flywheel with some brake cleaner, but that was about it.

I had to swap the old pressure plate bolts out with new ones, I had installed new socket cap bolts, as one of the old semi-flanged hex bolts disappeared on me.

As far as the alignment dowels - this might have been where I was confused on the last install. There are three dimples on the AMS flywheel - I had positioned the pressure plate on the flywheel, where the three nipples on the plate stick out (thinking that was where it was suppose to seat).

There is no documentation that I can find on lining up the playe with the flywheel, so I have to figure this part out before my replacement parts arrive tomorrow.

I am pretty sure the dowel holes are symmetrical. I mean ti don't think it matters which way it goes on as long as they all line up. Did you find anything that could cause a rattle or did you decide the rattle was the exhaust leak?

 

[jeep_boss]

I am pretty sure the dowel holes are symmetrical. I mean ti don't think it matters which way it goes on as long as they all line up. Did you find anything that could cause a rattle or did you decide the rattle was the exhaust leak?

I concluded the issuse were related 100% to the clutch and flywheel install. I'm sorry that you cannot hear the abnormal noises in the videos when I released the clutch on downshift / engine braking, but it was anything but normal. When I would let the clutch out, the clutch system made a terrible noise (grind, shudder, creak) and there was a bouncy-ball effect as the engine braking took place. This absolutey felt as if something was misaligned.

The only chamce I have at getting this done right tomorrow is being at the mercy of AMS and Luk support. They have an 800 number, I am going to call them both and ensure that I get the answers that I will need so I do not fuck this up again.

 

[ac_]

I concluded the issuse were related 100% to the clutch and flywheel install. I'm sorry that you cannot hear the abnormal noises in the videos when I released the clutch on downshift / engine braking, but it was anything but normal. When I would let the clutch out, the clutch system made a terrible noise (grind, shudder, creak) and there was a bouncy-ball effect as the engine braking took place. This absolutey felt as if something was misaligned.

The only chamce I have at getting this done right tomorrow is being at the mercy of AMS and Luk support. They have an 800 number, I am going to call them both and ensure that I get the answers that I will need so I do not fuck this up again.

Unless there is something I am missing about your aftermarket flywheel, if something wasn't aligned right you shouldn't be able to get the transmission back in. Even if your clutch disk was slightly off it would align right up the first time you hit your clutch.

I do have one suggestion that can make a noise when you hit your clutch or let it out, and make a quack sound. A bad pilot bearing will do that. So I know you changed yours, but make damn sure that it is correct and lubed. I mean if it is loose then it will cause your input shaft to wiggle and squawk. It should fit snug on the end of your input shaft. Not tight not loose, but just right.

If you let the trans hang on the clutch disk you could bend the flange and loosen the springs and they could rattle, but I didn't see that in the picture. Plus it would would not only rattle, it would also chatter of that was the case.

Good luck tomorrow.

 

[jeep_boss]

Unless there is something I am missing about your aftermarket flywheel, if something wasn't aligned right you shouldn't be able to get the transmission back in. Even if your clutch disk was slightly off it would align right up the first time you hit your clutch.

I do have one suggestion that can make a noise when you hit your clutch or let it out, and make a quack sound. A bad pilot bearing will do that. So I know you changed yours, but make damn sure that it is correct and lubed. I mean if it is loose then it will cause your input shaft to wiggle and squawk. It should fit snug on the end of your input shaft. Not tight not loose, but just right.

If you let the trans hang on the clutch disk you could bend the flange and loosen the springs and they could rattle, but I didn't see that in the picture. Plus it would would not only rattle, it would also chatter of that was the case.

Good luck tomorrow.

I had bought and installed a Timken pilot bearing, I didn't like the looks of the Luk PB, but I will yank the Timken and use the one Luk supplies so I can have some degree of warranty with their clutch kit. Greased it up using the bearing grease from RCV, I may have used a little too much though, because it looks pretty messy in there now.

I'd never let the transmission hang in the PB. I use two transmission jacks for the trans+tcase, which gives me the perfect amount of agility in removing and seating the assembly.

That said, if this second clutch job does not remedy the issues, my next target would have to be my transmission - namely the input shaft bearing. There is a little bit of play in the shaft, but everything that I have read says that there should be a tiny bit of play in it, since it is a single bearing. There isn't any scoring or damage to the shaft or splines, just the small amount of play. I can also spin it, it feels smooth and my instincts tell me that it is fine.

I also bit the bullet (again, out of bullets now) and purchased a M.O.R.E. torsion rubber engine mount set, I still have a brand new torsion rubber trans mount, so it should add some value to the driving characteristics.

 

[jeep_boss]

One more photo that somewhat compliments the "bouncy-ball", "skipping" sensation that was being produced by my drivetrain when I would doenshift.. this is on the pressure plate side of the clutch disc, the wear doesn't look even whatsoever, but there is a pretty well defined skipping pattern burned in. The other sode looks similar, except the contact pattern was isolated to the inner half of the disc.

This was only ~120 miles, so I can't say that it's definitive, but there was certainly an issue.

 

[Rob5589]

I find it odd that there are 5 bolts holding the pp and one locating pin, where it seems there should be a 6th bolt.

 

[jeep_boss]

I find it odd that there are 5 bolts holding the pp and one locating pin, where it seems there should be a 6th bolt.

I'm not following you. I replaced the bolts sith socket cap screws if that's what you mean?

 

[Rob5589]

I'm not following you. I replaced the bolts sith socket cap screws if that's what you mean?

Looking at the pp pictures, I see 5 bolt holes and a locating pin where it seems a 6th bolt would go. Just seemed odd to me.

 

[ac_]

Looking at the pp pictures, I see 5 bolt holes and a locating pin where it seems a 6th bolt would go. Just seemed odd to me.

+1 that is what I was trying to say earlier, when I was asking if that was a bolt or a dowel in the bolt hole?

 

[jeep_boss]

Looking at the pp pictures, I see 5 bolt holes and a locating pin where it seems a 6th bolt would go. Just seemed odd to me.

Which picture? And what's a locating pin?

 

[ac_]

This:

 

[Rob5589]

This:

View attachment 38564

Yes. Could it cause an uneven disc contact, I really cannot say. But it does seem odd that the pp attaches with an uneven number of bolts in an evenly spaced configuration. Maybe @mrblaine has better insight.

 

[jeep_boss]

This:

View attachment 38564

That was just one of the 6 bolts that didn't fall out of the plate yesterday. There are no alignment dowels, beyond the supplied plenum / plastic alignment tool, there just seemed to have been an undocumented offset bolt pattern to mate the plate with the flywheel. I think it sucks that they didn't bother to include any information on either the clutch or flywheel. One of the bolt holes in the flywheel was substantially smaller than the other 5.

 

[Rob5589]

That was just one of the 6 bolts that didn't fall out of the plate yesterday. There are no alignment dowels, beyond the supplied plenum / plastic alignment tool, there just seemed to have been an undocumented offset bolt pattern to mate the plate with the flywheel. I think it sucks that they didn't bother to include any information on either the clutch or flywheel. One of the bolt holes in the flywheel was substantially smaller than the other 5.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

 

[mrblaine]

Yes. Could it cause an uneven disc contact, I really cannot say. But it does seem odd that the pp attaches with an uneven number of bolts in an evenly spaced configuration. Maybe @mrblaine has better insight.

Nope, never seen that before and if I did, I wouldn't run it. I just finished a clutch as part of a trans swap and we had none of those issues.

 

[mrblaine]

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

sucked me right in.

 

[jeep_boss]

I called AMS and Luk support today. The guy at AMS was cool ("Randy"), he clarified some of the installation and preparation questions that I had, and offered some feedback on my situation.

The guy I spoke with at Luk sounded like he hated his job. Their VoIP system also SUCKS, so it is difficult communicating over the phone. I asked him a series of questions, one of which regarded the deformation of the pressure plate when I torqued the bolts down. He started off saying that it was impossible and I immediately countered with the fact that I witnessed it happen. According to him, they recommend turning the cover bolts a 1/2 turn at a time, not a few threads at a time as the FSM states.

Loctite is not required for either component, however, both stated that a non-heavy duty Loctite can be used if you're paranoid. I had actually applied RED Loctite to my flywheel, so I get to have fun with that when I remove it today.

 

[jeep_boss]

BTW, I got these today for the flywheel, since I had reused the old ones last time. Anyone have negative thoughts on these?

 

[cliffish]

BTW, I got these today for the flywheel, since I had reused the old ones last time. Anyone have negative thoughts on these?

View attachment 38574

no that is the brand most muscle car and corvette sites say to use when replacing heads, exhaust manifolds...your good!