Rental houses, tell me about landlording

BlueC

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Guys, it looks like I will be acquiring my first investment property soon, like things should be closing within weeks. I'm not completely new to this stuff as family members have owned rent house, but I've seen mixed results, so I thought I'd see what kind of suggestions yall had for me. Right now I'm starting to wonder about finding a tenant, a good tenant, especially since they will also be my neighbor (I'm buying property next door). So suggestions what to do, what not to do, red flags etc., I'm looking to learn some tricks.

I'm pretty sure I've read you guys have some rentals @bucky @sab
 
Find a management company to find and vet tenants. You don't have to have them manage the rental, just find your tenants. I prefer to have quality, long term tenants - so I price towards the bottom of the market, and raise $50/yr.
 
I had a house I rented, with a management company, for 10 years, and it was the biggest PIA. I sold the house and invested the money, making more, with far less headaches, i.e. taxes, tenants, repairs etc. It can be worth it, but I'd never do it again.
 
I sold my last rental property late last year for two main reasons. One, I needed to reduce stress in my life (renting is not for the faint of heart), and two, my cap rate dropped from 10-11% to 4-5% over the years due to values and property taxes rising at 3-4 times the rent rates. At cap rates that low, the time it takes to run a tight ship just isn't worth it. I can easily make that in the market all day long doing nothing. So, first piece of advice - mind your cap rate! The rising value of the properties was nice when I sold them, but Uncle Sam gets his cut in the end (no more 1031 exchanges.) I had to write a big check in April!

Second piece of advice is figure out your strategy as a landlord. You can concentrate on keeping it rented and just keep warm bodies in there (don't be very selective), or you can be more selective, but be prepared for missing months of rent while you vet candidates. I was in the latter category because I didn't want to deal with deadbeats. I still had a few deadbeats for tenants, but most were not. Deadbeats are a huge drain on your energy. If you rent to stand-up people, you can be reasonable with them, and they'll reciprocate, making your life easier.

The big question, though, is how to find stand-up people. Believe it or not, but by far, the best way was by looking at their credit rating. We found that people with good credit make good tenants, but you have to have a property that is rentable to people with good credit. People with good credit generally don't rent crappy properties in questionable neighborhoods. Unfortunately, we found that it got increasingly difficult to find people with good credit over the 20 years of being a landlord, so our time unrented when up a bit, hurting the cap rates further.

I think there's more money to be made in the lower end of the rental market, but I just saw that as too much work for a side gig when working 60 hours a week.

Find a management company to find and vet tenants. You don't have to have them manage the rental, just find your tenants.
I tried that the last two years of ownership in an attempt to ease my stress, but they didn't just find tenants, they managed the rental. I still did all the repairs and maintenance. They took 9% for that. It was a complete disaster for us. Worst tenants we ever had, and we had issues to deal with way more often. One time, I got called about an electrical outlet that didn't work. When I went to repair it, I noticed the garage ceiling's drywall sagging, so I went up in the attic. They had stuff stacked up on the drywall between the joists (including a full 20 lb propane tank), and it was pulling the nails out. I was surprised it hadn't come down.

I told the management company to inform them to remove the items, fix the drywall, and bill the tenants, and figured my work was done. A few months later, the tenant moved out. In the move-out inspection report I received, there was a ton of damage, and low-and-behold, the garage ceiling was in the report. They never did a thing about it. That tenant was the first in there after a $10,000 remodel. We spent $5,000 repairing all their damage. We ended up keeping their $1,250 deposit, and eating the balance. If the management company had done what I asked, they would have gotten paid prior to the move out, and my loss would have been lower. Fun times! That's why I don't like deadbeats, and that's how my one experiment with paying someone to manage the property went.
 
Rental property is a great investment. Best ROI, for sure. But can be a HUGE PITA and source of unbelievable stress. I’ve had rental houses for probably forty years and am very happy to say I no longer have any. About fifteen years ago I finally got tired of dealing with tenants and hired a property management company to take the crap. And I learned the hard way that property managers have THEIR bottom dollar as their top priority.

If you can put your mind in the place where you ONLY care about the income you can make good money. But don’t for one second develop ANY emotional attachment to your property or any tenant. If I were to have a rental property next door I’d absolutely have a property manager and NEVER let the tenant know that I was anything other than just a neighbor.
 
especially since they will also be my neighbor (I'm buying property next door).

Well I don’t know if I could do that, looking at the rental every time I went out the front door, and having the tenants approach me if they see me outside, or worse knocking on my door.
 
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I've only ever had one bad tenant, who was fine at first, but then an unauthorized dog came in and some gang bangers as well. That was a $5K repair. But - at least in my area - if you can't rent it within a week or two, you're priced too high. If I could get the ROI doing something else, I would - but I can't. My late father made a KILLING on 2 mortgage trust deeds at interest rates over 20%, but those days are long gone.

My strategy is simple: Stay on the low end of comparable properties to retain tenants, treat your people right, don't put up with chickenshit bullshit, and don't be a slumlord, keep the property maintained.
 
I had a house I rented, with a management company, for 10 years, and it was the biggest PIA. I sold the house and invested the money, making more, with far less headaches, i.e. taxes, tenants, repairs etc. It can be worth it, but I'd never do it again.

Yep. By the time you figure the taxes, insurance, and other inevitable expenses, you are better off just getting a CD at the bank. Finding good tenants is a real challenge and getting rid of bad ones near impossible. A lot of boilerplate lease forms out there but in the end, best have an attorney finalize anything. Would I do it again? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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If I were to have a rental property next door I’d absolutely have a property manager and NEVER let the tenant know that I was anything other than just a neighbor.

Well I don’t know if I could do that, looking at the rental every time I went out the front door, and having the tenants approach me if they see me outside, or worse knocking on my door.

That's something I've thought about. If I rent it myself, they'll know who I am, and if I want some anonymity, property management, but I suspect the tenant would still figure it out.
 
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The big question, though, is how to find stand-up people. Believe it or not, but by far, the best way was by looking at their credit rating. We found that people with good credit make good tenants, but you have to have a property that is rentable to people with good credit. People with good credit generally don't rent crappy properties in questionable neighborhoods. Unfortunately, we found that it got increasingly difficult to find people with good credit over the 20 years of being a landlord, so our time unrented when up a bit, hurting the cap rates further.

That's what I'm concerned with. I'm going to have a non-typical property, and it's connected to my current property, so I really need to find someone decent, preferably my age or older. Easier said than done, I know.

I've had some people tell me their strategy, in part, is to require proof of income of 3X or more monthly rent, and stable employment. So background check, credit check, proof of income.
 
Oh man. I have stories. If it were a few of us sitting around having beers, I'd share them all. But I don't feel like typing that much.

My advice after 20+ years of being a landlord... during most of which I managed my own properties: get someone else to do it. For the last 3-4 years, I've had a property manager do everything. He finds tenants. He receives complaints. He does repairs. He collects rent. He evicts. And he sends me a check every month with a report of what's going on with the property. But the most important thing he does is he insulates me from the tenants. I literally don't even know their names, and they don't know mine.

I no longer get whiny phone calls from entitled renters on Thanksgiving because they can't get the garage door open (dead remote batteries). I don't get calls while I'm on vacation with my family because one of the two large AC units stopped cooling on an early spring day (in FL, but still). It's been a few years since had to remove rotting food (e.g., a ballooned chicken carcass in a vacuum-sealed bag) from a freezer because the tenants dodged me, skipped town, but only after they stopped paying their electric bill long enough for the utility to cut power.

If you have an endless supply of patience and want a 2nd job, by all means, self-manage. Coincidentally, I received a check this morning for $133.33 from a lawyer I used to collect on a ~$10,000 judgement I have against a former tenant (chicken lady... Katheryn Schuld, GFY). It's the first check I've seen in 5 months. At this rate, I should be whole around the time my non-existent grandkids go to college.
 
That's something I've thought about. If I rent it myself, they'll know who I am, and if I want some anonymity, property management, but I suspect the tenant would still figure it out.
When we moved to TX, we bought a rental duplex in town right away, rather than renting. While looking for the right rural property for our current homestead, we lived in one side of the duplex and rented the other for over a year while self-managing it. I didn't find that to be much more of a problem than living elsewhere. I take a firm, but empathic, position with tenants. I do everything I can to treat them well, but as soon as they start being unreasonable, I nip that in the bud so they don't get the idea that I'm a pushover. I've found that by treating them right, they are less likely to push for unreasonable things. Of course, that only works for what I called "stand-up people" for tenants. That's why it's so important to get good tenants.
 
When we moved to TX, we bought a rental duplex in town right away, rather than renting. While looking for the right rural property for our current homestead, we lived in one side of the duplex and rented the other for over a year while self-managing it. I didn't find that to be much more of a problem than living elsewhere. I take a firm, but empathic, position with tenants. I do everything I can to treat them well, but as soon as they start being unreasonable, I nip that in the bud so they don't get the idea that I'm a pushover. I've found that by treating them right, they are less likely to push for unreasonable things. Of course, that only works for what I called "stand-up people" for tenants. That's why it's so important to get good tenants.

That's probably a little closer to my situation. The property is connected to my backyard, and there are other potential uses/income from the property (land around the house), so I can't see any reasonable way around a tenant knowing who I am, and why I want to figure out how to shake out a good one. How did you advertise for rent most recently?
 
Oh man. I have stories. If it were a few of us sitting around having beers, I'd share them all. But I don't feel like typing that much.

My grandpa had rentals when I was a kid, I remember some stuff, having to clean out some. He liked to buy cheap houses, always in not-so-good parts of town, and would rent to whoever brought him the first months rent. Not exactly a recipe for finding stress-free, good tenants. The cops unexpectedly took some of his best renters one night. One of his last houses was a deadbeat clown show, and he used a property management company with that one. Long, twisty story short, when he finally got the tenants out, we went inside to find that they took the kitchen (appliances, cabinets, countertops, sink, and even some floor tiles) and they also took an interior wall with them. WTF :LOL: My grandpa was so degusted with it, he just gave it to my dad a few months later. I know he seriously considered setting it on fire. :LOL:
 
I'm going to have a non-typical property, and it's connected to my current property, so I really need to find someone decent, preferably my age or older.
I just caught this part. I dunno if you could make me live in that close a proximity to my tenants. If you're dead set on it... credit score tells a lot. A bad credit score is an almost universal indicator that this tenant is going to give you a hard time. But a good credit score doesn't mean they won't. My high-net-worth, good-credit tenants were the ones who called me the most (the ones that couldn't figure out how to change the garage door remote battery).

Get references, I guess. Ask them everything. If you're lucky you'll get someone single, quiet, that pays on time, and stays for the long term. And if you do, never raise their rent. An extra $50 a month isn't worth losing a good renter and ending up sharing a wall with a filthy, degenerate deadbeat.
 
I just caught this part. I dunno if you could make me live in that close a proximity to my tenants. If you're dead set on it...

I am. I mentioned that it's a bit unique, being attached to my property, but I might should also mention its a house with land, so I'll have other options with the property. I'm the house up front lower right. Future rental is the dot behind that, and I intend to rent the house with yard around it, then do other things with the land. This will not be some generic or section-8 rental.

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If you're lucky you'll get someone single, quiet, that pays on time, and stays for the long term. And if you do, never raise their rent.

That's the dream.
 
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How did you advertise for rent most recently?
Well, all of our rentals were duplexes, in duplex neighborhoods. I made improvements like a driveway wide enough for each side to park two cars (no other ones on the street had that) and I kept it in tip-top shape so that it had the best "curb appeal" on the block. Our main advertisement was on Craigslist. I think Mrs. sab also used Facebook Marketplace (I don't use it, and she handled all advertisements). However, the curb appeal got us 90% of tenants.

The prospective tenants would be driving to view another duplex and see ours with a sign and phone number out front. When we lived at that one duplex, we'd sometimes actually see them pull over and call us! We also priced ours right at the highest amount on the block, but not a penny higher. That way, we were able to "steal" tenants from other properties. The niceness of our units was worth the slight upcharge when compared to the bad duplexes on the block.
 
Well, all of our rentals were duplexes, in duplex neighborhoods. I made improvements like a driveway wide enough for each side to park two cars (no other ones on the street had that) and I kept it in tip-top shape so that it had the best "curb appeal" on the block. Our main advertisement was on Craigslist. I think Mrs. sab also used Facebook Marketplace (I don't use it, and she handled all advertisements). However, the curb appeal got us 90% of tenants.

The prospective tenants would be driving to view another duplex and see ours with a sign and phone number out front. When we lived at that one duplex, we'd sometimes actually see them pull over and call us! We also priced ours right at the highest amount on the block, but not a penny higher. That way, we were able to "steal" tenants from other properties. The niceness of our units was worth the slight upcharge when compared to the bad duplexes on the block.

What were your terms? (deposit, rents upfront, etc)