BDS Suspension?

[2006TJ1]

Manual transmissions are actually the worst when it comes to being undergeared. They have a fixed first gear ratio, an automatic has an infinitely low/variable first gear ratio due to the torque converter in front of the automatic.

I can attest to this first hand. My 3.73/33s combo seems fine until I get up to about 45 or 50. even wo the overdrive it gets pretty sluggish but in overdrive it's an absolute dog. starting from a stop, it feels relatively quick but it's not a permanent set up by any means

 

[mots]

I can attest to this first hand. My 3.73/33s combo seems fine until I get up to about 45 or 50. even wo the overdrive it gets pretty sluggish but in overdrive it's an absolute dog. starting from a stop, it feels relatively quick but it's not a permanent set up by any means

Yeah, exactly what I experienced in the 4 speed autos when gearing was not upgraded with larger tires. Wouldn't a manual be better on the highway in these situations since you can at least downshift (and have a choice of that extra gear, or two on the 6 spd)? That said, on the 3.07, I suppose nothing is really going to be able to overcome that mechanical limitation, other than getting re-geared.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

The 6-speed has lower 1st and 6th gear ratios than the 5-speed doed so it's better with larger tires when the axles are under geared

Yeah, exactly what I experienced in the 4 speed autos when gearing was not upgraded with larger tires. Wouldn't a manual be better on the highway in these situations since you can at least downshift (and have a choice of that extra gear, or two on the 6 spd)?

The 4-speed automatic's Overdrive can be shut off which is like downshifting to 4th with a 5-speed or 5th with the 6-speed.

Which still sucks, it's far better to just bite the bullet and regear no matter if you have a manual or automatic transmission. .

 

[Sancho]

Dude, only gets worse the older you get, believe me

What gets worse the older you get?

 

[mots]

The 6-speed has lower 1st and 6th gear ratios than the 5-speed doed so it's better with larger tires when the axles are under geared
The 4-speed automatic's Overdrive can be shut off which is like downshifting to 4th with a 5-speed or 5th with the 6-speed.

Which still sucks, it's far better to just bite the bullet and regear no matter if you have a manual or automatic transmission. .

Thank you sir! I'm going to do some more study of the RPM/speed charts and play around on the site that has the calculator with all the parameters etc.(trans, transfer case, rear axle, tire size etc.). I'm very pleased on how well it feels accelerating from a stop and on the highway up to 70 MPH (thats all I need!). I feared I would take a bigger hit. Down the road (2 years maybe), I want to re-gear to that sweet spot. At that point, I'll know whether I am content to stay on the 32's or not. Right now, especially after seeing the BFG's in person and on the Jeep, I really love this tire size. But, if I do want to go bigger for whatever reason when I regear, then I will likely add a 0.75-1" body lift, refresh my shocks, and move up to 33's. I have no desire for anything larger beyond that (makes mental note lol). Until then, I'm going to shift when it feels good, downshift early and often, and make sure the motor avoids any unnecessary lugging!

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Just one thing to keep in mind about charts and rpms.... that the bigger the tire, the more rpms you need. Gearing for 33's so you get the same rpms that worked for 30" tires doesn't work.

 

[Daveh370]

Yeah, the 3.07 is tough. At least you have the 5 spd to help a bit until you can re-gear. I finally received my AR Baja's and BFG 32's and got them installed last night (pic below). Now I just need to get the BDS 2" lift installed (hopefully next week). Boy does it roll better on the new KO2's. Two of my stock 30's (probably 29.5" new) were around 28" in true measurement since they are used and the other two perhaps 28.5". The new BFG tires are somewhere around 30.7" of real measured height with ~28-29 PSI. I have the Dana 44/3.73 rear with the manual 6 spd (NSG370). I did notice the gearing changes with the 32's, but I actually like how things have shifted so far. First gear is now more usable for me as I don't have to shift as fast. I can still also use 6th gear perfectly for OD on the highway, but I don't fee the need to shift into 6th as soon as before. We'll see how it goes from here, but I really like the 32x11.5xR15 setup so far. It doesn't look as aggressive as the 33's, but it is perfect for my needs. As a bonus, the 32" BFG A/T mounted perfectly on my stock spare tire carrier without any extension or alternations to the 3rd brake light.

Before
View attachment 47177

After
View attachment 47178


View attachment 47184
View attachment 47183
View attachment 47189

That looks great!

 

[mots]

That looks great!

Thanks, appreciate it! I am really excited about owning this Jeep, even more than I expected.

 

[Cal]

I installed the 3' BDS lift kit on my 03, am running 33" BFG Mud Terrains on American Racing rims and have had zero issues. I did upgrade to adjustable track bars for the front and rear, and also added the swaybar disconnects for the front. The "No Fine Print" warranty that BDS offers was a big selling point for me.

Good luck with whichever way you choose to go.

Do you need both front and rear adjustable track bars and swaybar disconnects for the front if you’re not doing any heavy off-roading (80% pavement)

 

[Daveh370]

Do you need both front and rear adjustable track bars and swaybar disconnects for the front if you’re not doing any heavy off-roading (80% pavement)

Not that I’m aware of. The basic kit comes with non-disconnect sway bar links, as well as track bar relocation brackets to use your stock track bars.

 

[mots]

Yeah, the 3.07 is tough. At least you have the 5 spd to help a bit until you can re-gear. I finally received my AR Baja's and BFG 32's and got them installed last night (pic below). Now I just need to get the BDS 2" lift installed (hopefully next week). Boy does it roll better on the new KO2's. Two of my stock 30's (probably 29.5" new) were around 28" in true measurement since they are used and the other two perhaps 28.5". The new BFG tires are somewhere around 30.7" of real measured height with ~28-29 PSI. I have the Dana 44/3.73 rear with the manual 6 spd (NSG370). I did notice the gearing changes with the 32's, but I actually like how things have shifted so far. First gear is now more usable for me as I don't have to shift as fast. I can still also use 6th gear perfectly for OD on the highway, but I don't fee the need to shift into 6th as soon as before. We'll see how it goes from here, but I really like the 32x11.5xR15 setup so far. It doesn't look as aggressive as the 33's, but it is perfect for my needs. As a bonus, the 32" BFG A/T mounted perfectly on my stock spare tire carrier without any extension or alternations to the 3rd brake light.

Before
View attachment 47177

After
View attachment 47178
View attachment 47184
View attachment 47183
View attachment 47189

Here it is now with the BDS 2" lift kit installed (BDS springs, NX2 shocks). Probably not necessary, but I also added the JKS quick disconnects and NX2 steering stabilizer. I'm very happy with the lift height and the ride is nice and compliant on-road. A bonus was that the NX2 shocks and stabilizer have a silver painted body that matches my bright silver TJ. Need to wax those things up, LOL.

However, a negative is that I now have some minor vibration when taking off from a complete stop in first gear (rear driveshaft pinion angle related issue I assume). I can feel it most in the 6 speed shifter as the driveline shimmys a bit and then goes away fairly quickly as I continue to accelerate. Nothing violent by any means, but it needs to be fixed. It is a little more pronounced the faster I attempt to accelerate. So, I'm not going to drive it any further and we'll be dropping the t-case a tad to see if it smooths things out on Monday.

More notes:

• It was good I could compare the wheel\tire upgrade by itself first and then the BDS lift about a week later. Both were very nice upgrades from stock form. Now with the lift, it is even more compliant and is quite a bit better than my previous setup on stock springs with Bilstein 5100's. Before the lift, clearance on the 32's wasn't a problem for normal on-road driving with the 3.75" backspaced wheels, but I wouldn't want to drive like this for too long.
• After the lift was installed, when I come into my driveway over a rounded curb of 4 inches or so, I noticed that it now feels like it oozes over more smoothly as opposed to roughly jolting up and over like before. Same tire pressure, same tires, same wheels, only differences are as noted above. After riding around a bit, my wife also had me do the speed bump test, LOL. It passed the test and handled the jolts well, much better dampening than before the upgrade. Anyhow, just some quick observations after a bit of driving, so we'll see how things go from here. The NX2 shocks claim to have "velocity sensitive valving for lightning fast adaptive dampening to whatever terrain you traverse". We'll have to put these things through the paces a bit and see how they hold up on our crappy roads here in the midwest, LOL.
• As far as diagnosing the vibes...there aren't any issues with the rear shaft u-joints during inspection or sounds during driving, so leaving those alone for now.
• Carfax tidbit: my front driveshaft was replaced at 67k by Gazzani Motors Inc. Elmwood, NJ. Wonder what this was about...
• Still would like to upgrade the rear driveshaft to something better at some point, do the adjustable arms, and SYE. Maybe even gear up from 3.73 at that time as well. For now, I hope the t-case fixes the starting vibration issue and I can just enjoy the Jeep for awhile without spending any more $ immediately (yeah, I bet you've heard that one before!).
• Motor mounts and trans mounts seem to be OK, but I need to inspect them more closely.

If anybody has additional advice or comments, please let it fly. Thanks!




Before and After (also can see upgraded Banks exhaust):

 

[Daveh370]

Here it is now with the BDS 2" lift kit installed (BDS springs, NX2 shocks). Probably not necessary, but I also added the JKS quick disconnects and NX2 steering stabilizer. I'm very happy with the lift height and the ride is nice and compliant on-road. A bonus was that the NX2 shocks and stabilizer have a silver painted body that matches my bright silver TJ. Need to wax those things up, LOL.

However, a negative is that I now have some minor vibration when taking off from a complete stop in first gear (rear driveshaft pinion angle related issue I assume). I can feel it most in the 6 speed shifter as the driveline shimmys a bit and then goes away fairly quickly as I continue to accelerate. Nothing violent by any means, but it needs to be fixed. It is a little more pronounced the faster I attempt to accelerate. So, I'm not going to drive it any further and we'll be dropping the t-case a tad to see if it smooths things out on Monday.

More notes:

• It was good I could compare the wheel\tire upgrade by itself first and then the BDS lift about a week later. Both were very nice upgrades from stock form. Now with the lift, it is even more compliant and is quite a bit better than my previous setup on stock springs with Bilstein 5100's. Before the lift, clearance on the 32's wasn't a problem for normal on-road driving with the 3.75" backspaced wheels, but I wouldn't want to drive like this for too long.
• After the lift was installed, when I come into my driveway over a rounded curb of 4 inches or so, I noticed that it now feels like it oozes over more smoothly as opposed to roughly jolting up and over like before. Same tire pressure, same tires, same wheels, only differences are as noted above. After riding around a bit, my wife also had me do the speed bump test, LOL. It passed the test and handled the jolts well, much better dampening than before the upgrade. Anyhow, just some quick observations after a bit of driving, so we'll see how things go from here. The NX2 shocks claim to have "velocity sensitive valving for lightning fast adaptive dampening to whatever terrain you traverse". We'll have to put these things through the paces a bit and see how they hold up on our crappy roads here in the midwest, LOL.
• As far as diagnosing the vibes...there aren't any issues with the rear shaft u-joints during inspection or sounds during driving, so leaving those alone for now.
• Carfax tidbit: my front driveshaft was replaced at 67k by Gazzani Motors Inc. Elmwood, NJ. Wonder what this was about...
• Still would like to upgrade the rear driveshaft to something better at some point, do the adjustable arms, and SYE. Maybe even gear up from 3.73 at that time as well. For now, I hope the t-case fixes the starting vibration issue and I can just enjoy the Jeep for awhile without spending any more $ immediately (yeah, I bet you've heard that one before!).
• Motor mounts and trans mounts seem to be OK, but I need to inspect them more closely.

If anybody has additional advice or comments, please let it fly. Thanks!

View attachment 48232
View attachment 48235

Before and After (also can see upgraded Banks exhaust):

View attachment 48234

Your Jeep looks awesome!

How do you like the Banks Exhaust? I’m looking to replace my muffler (it has some rust issues) but not sure what to get. My friend has a Flowmaster on his ‘02 that sounds decent. I looked at the Banks Monster for my previous F-150 (2010 with the 5.4 V-8), but ended up not getting it as it was a bit expensive.

I am also really pleased with the way my Jeep drives with the BDS lift. It’s the first lifted vehicle I’ve driven, and handles really well.

 

[mots]

Your Jeep looks awesome!

How do you like the Banks Exhaust? I’m looking to replace my muffler (it has some rust issues) but not sure what to get. My friend has a Flowmaster on his ‘02 that sounds decent. I looked at the Banks Monster for my previous F-150 (2010 with the 5.4 V-8), but ended up not getting it as it was a bit expensive.

I am also really pleased with the way my Jeep drives with the BDS lift. It’s the first lifted vehicle I’ve driven, and handles really well.

Thanks, appreciate that! Glad you are enjoying your lift. I went with the Banks because of value. For less than $250, it gave me a 2.5" T409 stainless cat-back to match the 2.5" midsection with the 3 cats I also replaced along with 4 new O2 sensors. For the 3 cats, we installed Flowmaster direct fit #2049170 for ~$250. That's a whole manifold-back exhaust with 3 cats for less than $500, and not some knock off e-Bay brand! That's hard to beat from my experience with other vehicles. I often use the local muffler shops for custom setups to save $, but it would be hard for them to beat this ready to install complete system in cost and still match the quality, fit, and finish. Not even worth the try IMO.

As far as sound, it is a deeper more aggressive sounding exhaust, but not loud or obnoxious by any means. However, the cat-backs just don't sound as good on the newer TJ's with the 3 cats. Cats provide a lot of baffling on their own and adding that 3rd cat made the TJ quieter, especially under load. Removing the 3rd unmonitored cat would surely fix that up and allow the muffler to make vendor's intended sound, but I wanted to stay stock for now. I really wanted the Borla since it sounded the best to me and it was T304 SS. But, with the cost of the lift, wheels, tires etc. I didn't want to pay the $440 Borla premium this time, LOL. However, if looking for the best sound, fit and finish, I definitely would recommend going with the Borla and removing the 3rd unmonitored cat (if newer TJ).

 

[Cal]

Here it is now with the BDS 2" lift kit installed (BDS springs, NX2 shocks). Probably not necessary, but I also added the JKS quick disconnects and NX2 steering stabilizer. I'm very happy with the lift height and the ride is nice and compliant on-road. A bonus was that the NX2 shocks and stabilizer have a silver painted body that matches my bright silver TJ. Need to wax those things up, LOL.

However, a negative is that I now have some minor vibration when taking off from a complete stop in first gear (rear driveshaft pinion angle related issue I assume). I can feel it most in the 6 speed shifter as the driveline shimmys a bit and then goes away fairly quickly as I continue to accelerate. Nothing violent by any means, but it needs to be fixed. It is a little more pronounced the faster I attempt to accelerate. So, I'm not going to drive it any further and we'll be dropping the t-case a tad to see if it smooths things out on Monday.

More notes:

• It was good I could compare the wheel\tire upgrade by itself first and then the BDS lift about a week later. Both were very nice upgrades from stock form. Now with the lift, it is even more compliant and is quite a bit better than my previous setup on stock springs with Bilstein 5100's. Before the lift, clearance on the 32's wasn't a problem for normal on-road driving with the 3.75" backspaced wheels, but I wouldn't want to drive like this for too long.
• After the lift was installed, when I come into my driveway over a rounded curb of 4 inches or so, I noticed that it now feels like it oozes over more smoothly as opposed to roughly jolting up and over like before. Same tire pressure, same tires, same wheels, only differences are as noted above. After riding around a bit, my wife also had me do the speed bump test, LOL. It passed the test and handled the jolts well, much better dampening than before the upgrade. Anyhow, just some quick observations after a bit of driving, so we'll see how things go from here. The NX2 shocks claim to have "velocity sensitive valving for lightning fast adaptive dampening to whatever terrain you traverse". We'll have to put these things through the paces a bit and see how they hold up on our crappy roads here in the midwest, LOL.
• As far as diagnosing the vibes...there aren't any issues with the rear shaft u-joints during inspection or sounds during driving, so leaving those alone for now.
• Carfax tidbit: my front driveshaft was replaced at 67k by Gazzani Motors Inc. Elmwood, NJ. Wonder what this was about...
• Still would like to upgrade the rear driveshaft to something better at some point, do the adjustable arms, and SYE. Maybe even gear up from 3.73 at that time as well. For now, I hope the t-case fixes the starting vibration issue and I can just enjoy the Jeep for awhile without spending any more $ immediately (yeah, I bet you've heard that one before!).
• Motor mounts and trans mounts seem to be OK, but I need to inspect them more closely.

If anybody has additional advice or comments, please let it fly. Thanks!

View attachment 48232
View attachment 48235

Before and After (also can see upgraded Banks exhaust):

View attachment 48234

That looks great man. I’m riding stock right now but am considering the zone 3” or bds 2” and getting the brown dog 1” motor mounts to help get the geometry back in line to avoid the death wobble.

 

[dla]

When I first installed my BDS lift I had the same vibration (more of a shudder) that your describing. Temporarily dropping the transfer case skid about 1/2”-5/8” with washers took care of it. I then added a motor mount lift and was able to put the skid back where it belonged.

 

[mots]

Thanks! The MML sounds like it would be a better alternative than the t-case drop, but I haven't done enough research on that one yet to feel comfortable. Would a body lift also be required if I don't want to relocate the fan shroud with the MML alone? Are there any concerns with the MML solutions causing unwanted vibrations with the engine at idle? I have heard talk about these things in general, but I don't pretend to fully understand them yet, or know how much it would cost. It sounds like more than I want to get into right now though. My issue is just a subtle driveline vibration due to the now steeper rear driveshaft angle, so I definitely would not classify it in the same camp as "death wobble", LOL. I've felt the DW before in another Jeep during a test drive (induced by ridiculously high tire pressure) and it literally felt like my wheels were slinging into the next lane and back again! I had to slow down to nearly 5 MPH for it to completely stop.

 

[mots]

When I first installed my BDS lift I had the same vibration (more of a shudder) that your describing. Temporarily dropping the transfer case skid about 1/2”-5/8” with washers took care of it. I then added a motor mount lift and was able to put the skid back where it belonged.

Cool, good to hear. I do want to learn more about the MML, the costs involved, and hear your guys' experience with them. I'll have to do some more research this weekend.

 

[Daveh370]

Thanks, appreciate that! Glad you are enjoying your lift. I went with the Banks because of value. For less than $250, it gave me a 2.5" T409 stainless cat-back to match the 2.5" midsection with the 3 cats I also replaced along with 4 new O2 sensors. For the 3 cats, we installed Flowmaster direct fit #2049170 for ~$250. That's a whole manifold-back exhaust with 3 cats for less than $500, and not some knock off e-Bay brand! That's hard to beat from my experience with other vehicles. I often use the local muffler shops for custom setups to save $, but it would be hard for them to beat this ready to install complete system in cost and still match the quality, fit, and finish. Not even worth the try IMO.

As far as sound, it is a deeper more aggressive sounding exhaust, but not loud or obnoxious by any means. However, the cat-backs just don't sound as good on the newer TJ's with the 3 cats. Cats provide a lot of baffling on their own and adding that 3rd cat made the TJ quieter, especially under load. Removing the 3rd unmonitored cat would surely fix that up and allow the muffler to make vendor's intended sound, but I wanted to stay stock for now. I really wanted the Borla since it sounded the best to me and it was T304 SS. But, with the cost of the lift, wheels, tires etc. I didn't want to pay the $440 Borla premium this time, LOL. However, if looking for the best sound, fit and finish, I definitely would recommend going with the Borla and removing the 3rd unmonitored cat (if newer TJ).

Thanks for the info. I’ll check out the Borla, as well as Banks.

 

[mots]

Thanks for the info. I’ll check out the Borla, as well as Banks.

No problem! I'm sure the Flowmaster is nice too, but they want $500+ for the cat-back.

 

[Tera]

When I first installed my BDS lift I had the same vibration (more of a shudder) that your describing. Temporarily dropping the transfer case skid about 1/2”-5/8” with washers took care of it. I then added a motor mount lift and was able to put the skid back where it belonged.

Are yall running the MML by itself or with a body lift? I'm looking at the 3in BDS lift to avoid having to go ACA and SYE immediately. Glad I found this thread!