Why Some Jeeps Drive / Ride Bad

[AndyG]

I see every variation of suspension and drive quality problems on the forum it seems .

Having owned 7 Jeep's , four wheel drive trucks , and so forth , and paid the bills to keep them rolling , here is what I have learned in 3 decades about drive quality .

Also , my Jeep TJ drives incredible . Smooth at all speeds , and that is no accident .

Here is why Jeeps, and all other vehicles, can drive poorly.

1. Wear . This category is a mix of all or some of everything .. gear box wear , bushings, ball joints , tie rod ends , steering column , knuckles , body bushings , drive line , etc. The hard part of roping this in is it's all in varying degrees based on what was maintained and what was neglected. This can be at any mileage point nearly , but becomes more certain as mileage increases if the vehicle was not maintained.

2 Time, Previous owner ignorance or neglect : I purchased an 03 Rubicon with 20,500 miles thinking it was good to go...it was , to the shop ....and it needed control arm bushings , shocks , tires , alignment , u joints and love . Sitting will ruin a vehicle , and off road , mud , water and pressure washers will age one prematurely. The wrong type grease can attack some bushings as well. Low mileage is not a panacea for all Ills, trust me ...and it's hard to swallow the added cost once you have paid top dollar for the vehicle .

3. Tires . Mud tires usually don't ride and drive as well as most All Terrain tires , and all Terrain Tires usually don't ride and drive as well as street tires.

Large tires generally don't drive as well as smaller . Generally .

New tires drive better than older ones usually , especially if they are near the end of their service life.

Name brand tires most often drive better than off brand tires .

Tires often aren't balanced as well as they can be.

Tire pressure is wrong, or uneven .

4.It's been butchered . Someone lifted it and didn't do a complete job , or didn't know what they were doing . This is all too common , and can be combined with all of the above .

5. It's not aligned properly . Yes , this happens even at professional shops , and even if it is perfect , it will eventually change .

6.Driveline issues ..worn knuckles ,u-joints , un balanced drive shaft , etc , contribute to a shaky, sketchy overall feel.

7. Comparison . If you drive a Lexus all day , your Jeep will be noticeably different .

8. Bad Roads . Roads that are awful beat you and your vehicle to death . New pavement is heavenly.

9 . Cheap parts. Avoid most house brands .

Here is my set up and why :

I started with a low mileage chassis hoping to at least have a good foundation to build on, and figured you pay either way you go , and I wanted a Jeep to enjoy a long time then possibly give my son.

I chose BF Goodrich 33" KO 2 tires for the look and quietness.

I chose Bilstein shocks because of their reputation .

I installed a rough country long arm kit because of the bushings being the same OEM part number as a 1-ton Dodge , and I knew bushing quality is important on a short , lifted vehicle . It needs stability. Also my shop was very familiar with their kits . I likely went that direction a the short arm kit it had was awful, so I went as far from that as I could. Both a one hump and a two hump camel will get you there .

I installed Spicer triple sealed u joints and a new double cardan . Mud and water had taken a toll on mine.

I keep it completely aligned and drive it sensibly , and grease it.

Don't buy into the "Jeep's drive bad" story ..anything drives bad that is set up wrong, has bad tires and has been neglected or abused .

I know I'm not telling anyone anything they don't know , but my point is this .... quit chasing the mythical magic set up and look at the practical aspects of vehicle ownership ... especially in a category where the vehicle is short , light , lifted , often has a history of off road use and needed better than regular maintenance . Any vehicle as narrow and short as a Jeep is going to react more dramatically to bad suspension and front end components and issues than a lower, wider , heavier vehicle . In short , good or bad , they handle quicker.

Thanks for reading , hope it makes sense.

 

[Chris]

Try some Rancho RS5000X shocks and it will ride even better. They ride better than my Bilstein 5100s did, that’s for sure!

 

[TJ2]

I see every variation of suspension and drive quality problems on the forum it seems .

Having owned 7 Jeep's , four wheel drive trucks , and so forth , and paid the bills to keep them rolling , here is what I have learned in 3 decades about drive quality .

Also , my Jeep TJ drives incredible . Smooth at all speeds , and that is no accident .

Here is why Jeeps, and all other vehicles, can drive poorly.

1. Wear . This category is a mix of all or some of everything .. gear box wear , bushings, ball joints , tie rod ends , steering column , knuckles , body bushings , drive line , etc. The hard part of roping this in is it's all in varying degrees based on what was maintained and what was neglected. This can be at any mileage point nearly , but becomes more certain as mileage increases if the vehicle was not maintained.

2 Time, owner ignorance or neglect : I purchased an 03 Rubicon with 20,500 miles thinking it was good to go...it was , to the shop ....and it needed control arm bushings , shocks , tires , alignment , u joints and love . Sitting will ruin a vehicle , and off road , mud , water and pressure washers will age one prematurely. The wrong type grease can attack some bushings as well. Low mileage is not a panacea for all Ills, trust me ...and it's hard to swallow the added cost once you have paid top dollar for the vehicle .


3. Tires . Mud tires usually don't ride and drive as well as most All Terrain tires , and all Terrain Tires usually don't ride and drive as well as street tires.

Large tires generally don't drive as well as smaller . Generally .

New tires drive better than older ones usually , especially if they are near the end of their service life.

Name brand tires most often drive better than off brand tires .

Tires often aren't balanced as well as they can be.

Tire pressure is wrong, or uneven .

4.It's been butchered . Someone lifted it and didn't do a complete job , or didn't know what they were doing . This is all too common , and can be combined with all of the above .

5. It's not aligned properly . Yes , this happens even at professional shops , and even if it is perfect , it will eventually change .

6.Driveline issues ..worn knuckles ,u-joints , un balanced drive shaft , etc , contribute to a shaky, sketchy overall feel.

7. Comparison . If you drive a Lexus all day , your Jeep will be noticeably different .

8. Bad Roads . Roads that are awful beat you and your vehicle to death . New pavement is heavenly.

9 . Cheap parts. Avoid most house brands .

Here is my set up and why :

I started with a low mileage chassis hoping to at least have a good foundation to build on, and figured you pay either way you go , and I wanted a Jeep to enjoy a long time then possibly give my son.

I chose BF Goodrich 33" KO 2 tires for the look and quietness.

I chose Bilstein shocks because of their reputation .

I installed a rough country long arm kit because of the bushings being the same OEM part number as a 1-ton Dodge , and I knew bushing quality is important on a short , lifted vehicle . It needs stability. Also my shop was very familiar with their kits . I likely went that direction a the short arm kit it had was awful, so I went as far from that as I could. Both a one hump and a two hump camel will get you there .

I installed Spicer triple sealed u joints and a new double cardan . Mud and water had taken a toll on mine.

I keep it completely aligned and drive it sensibly , and grease it.

Don't buy into the "Jeep's drive bad" story ..anything drives bad that is set up wrong, has bad tires and has been neglected or abused .

I know I'm not telling anyone anything they don't know , but my point is this .... quit chasing the mythical magic set up and look at the practical aspects of vehicle ownership ... especially in a category where the vehicle is short , light , lifted , often has a history of off road use and needed better than regular maintenance . Any vehicle as narrow and short as a Jeep is going to react more dramatically to bad suspension and front end components and issues than a lower, wider , heavier vehicle . In short , good or bad , they handle quicker.

Thanks for reading , hope it makes sense.

Good insight, your #8 caught my eye and #2 just hit a hard turn. Although I agree to some of what you are saying here.. most of your comment is subjective. Ride feeling is different from one driver to the other. Your smooth ride feeling might be different from others. Us, out in the boonies where gravel and mud is normal, might be different from the city boys in the street with stop lights by the mall. Drive quality, branded vs. non branded, high mileage vs low mileage, I don't agree with that for some of us (I go to wally for my oil & grease) don't have the money but we still try to upkeep our TJs to the extent of giving up a weekend beer. Worn-out squeaky suspension, that is a "okay" to some of us in the farmlands (normal when I still do off-roading and muds). Some of us likes the TJs because of it's classic ruggedness not the smoothness of it. And so, this topic is very subjective depending on what you do for living, how you live your life, and how you see things. And so now I need to see your rig.

 

[mots]

Try some Rancho RS5000X shocks and it will ride even better. They ride better than my Bilstein 5100s did, that’s for sure!

The new NX2’s that came with my BDS lift kit ride so much better on the street over small and large bumps than the 5100’s that the PO had installed. I would not recommend the Bilsteins for a TJ, but they are good for many other vehicles.

 

[jjvw]

.... Some of us likes the TJs because of it's ruggedness not the smoothness of it. ....

I like the ruggedness as much as the next guy, but I don't see the point in purposely engineering a harsh, jittery ride into the build plan. Especially when it adds no value to the off road capabilities.

 

[TJ2]

I don't see the point in purposely engineering a harsh, jittery ride into the build plan. Especially when it adds no value to the off road capabilities.

To your point, this used to be a TJ.

 

[jjvw]

To your point, this used to be a TJ.
View attachment 54493

Look again.

 

[TJ2]

He took off the front bumper.

 

[Mike_H]

To your point, this used to be a TJ.
View attachment 54493

It used to be a JK, not a TJ. Doors give it away.

I see every variation of suspension and drive quality problems on the forum it seems .

Having owned 7 Jeep's , four wheel drive trucks , and so forth , and paid the bills to keep them rolling , here is what I have learned in 3 decades about drive quality .

Also , my Jeep TJ drives incredible . Smooth at all speeds , and that is no accident .

Here is why Jeeps, and all other vehicles, can drive poorly.

1. Wear . This category is a mix of all or some of everything .. gear box wear , bushings, ball joints , tie rod ends , steering column , knuckles , body bushings , drive line , etc. The hard part of roping this in is it's all in varying degrees based on what was maintained and what was neglected. This can be at any mileage point nearly , but becomes more certain as mileage increases if the vehicle was not maintained.

2 Time, owner ignorance or neglect : I purchased an 03 Rubicon with 20,500 miles thinking it was good to go...it was , to the shop ....and it needed control arm bushings , shocks , tires , alignment , u joints and love . Sitting will ruin a vehicle , and off road , mud , water and pressure washers will age one prematurely. The wrong type grease can attack some bushings as well. Low mileage is not a panacea for all Ills, trust me ...and it's hard to swallow the added cost once you have paid top dollar for the vehicle .

3. Tires . Mud tires usually don't ride and drive as well as most All Terrain tires , and all Terrain Tires usually don't ride and drive as well as street tires.

Large tires generally don't drive as well as smaller . Generally .

New tires drive better than older ones usually , especially if they are near the end of their service life.

Name brand tires most often drive better than off brand tires .

Tires often aren't balanced as well as they can be.

Tire pressure is wrong, or uneven .

4.It's been butchered . Someone lifted it and didn't do a complete job , or didn't know what they were doing . This is all too common , and can be combined with all of the above .

5. It's not aligned properly . Yes , this happens even at professional shops , and even if it is perfect , it will eventually change .

6.Driveline issues ..worn knuckles ,u-joints , un balanced drive shaft , etc , contribute to a shaky, sketchy overall feel.

7. Comparison . If you drive a Lexus all day , your Jeep will be noticeably different .

8. Bad Roads . Roads that are awful beat you and your vehicle to death . New pavement is heavenly.

9 . Cheap parts. Avoid most house brands .

Here is my set up and why :

I started with a low mileage chassis hoping to at least have a good foundation to build on, and figured you pay either way you go , and I wanted a Jeep to enjoy a long time then possibly give my son.

I chose BF Goodrich 33" KO 2 tires for the look and quietness.

I chose Bilstein shocks because of their reputation .

I installed a rough country long arm kit because of the bushings being the same OEM part number as a 1-ton Dodge , and I knew bushing quality is important on a short , lifted vehicle . It needs stability. Also my shop was very familiar with their kits . I likely went that direction a the short arm kit it had was awful, so I went as far from that as I could. Both a one hump and a two hump camel will get you there .

I installed Spicer triple sealed u joints and a new double cardan . Mud and water had taken a toll on mine.

I keep it completely aligned and drive it sensibly , and grease it.

Don't buy into the "Jeep's drive bad" story ..anything drives bad that is set up wrong, has bad tires and has been neglected or abused .

I know I'm not telling anyone anything they don't know , but my point is this .... quit chasing the mythical magic set up and look at the practical aspects of vehicle ownership ... especially in a category where the vehicle is short , light , lifted , often has a history of off road use and needed better than regular maintenance . Any vehicle as narrow and short as a Jeep is going to react more dramatically to bad suspension and front end components and issues than a lower, wider , heavier vehicle . In short , good or bad , they handle quicker.

Thanks for reading , hope it makes sense.

Good Post Andy, and pretty spot on. I think its important for people to realize that they are almost always money ahead by buying the absolute BEST vehicle they can to start, and going from there. I'm with you on replacing worn parts, but a lot of people just don't. Its not a priority for them. With my jeep, I've also had to draw a line a couple times, as I don't want the dumb thing on jack stands for two years, undergoing a full frame off restoration! So, I'm kinda building and repairing in stages. When I upgraded to the ZJ steering, all of the TRE were replaced, so the whole system is new. The "rails" that the brake pads slide on are worn on my front steering knuckles....so When I replace them, it will get ball joints, bearings, and U-joints in the axles. Its all planned out, so that I can catch it up on maintenance AND enjoy it at the same time.

 

[AndyG]

I think that suspension is very subjective.

I've seen on dirt bikes what one guy thinks is absolutely incredible another guy says the bike is unrideable.

Jeep did not deliberately set out to make a vehicle that rode and drove poorly.. those characteristics were a result of doing other things to make the Jeep perform in rough terrain.

I think there is a balance between understanding it's not a car and it is an off-road vehicle, and at the same time over the years modern suspension technology has been integrated into the design, and that will give better driveability.

The original Jeeps were never meant to be daily driven personal vehicles.

There is a little bit of the original Jeep personality remaining in the TJ, blended with that modern technology. I don't know that you can ever remove that completely or that you would want to.

I've heard nothing but good about the particular Rancho shocks Chris mentioned ..if he would park it outside overnight , I would be able to get a set.

And yes , off road performance doesn't have to mean a ride and handling compromise....but that is generally where folks screw it up.

 

[AndyG]

It used to be a JK, not a TJ. Doors give it away.


Good Post Andy, and pretty spot on. I think its important for people to realize that they are almost always money ahead by buying the absolute BEST vehicle they can to start, and going from there. I'm with you on replacing worn parts, but a lot of people just don't. Its not a priority for them. With my jeep, I've also had to draw a line a couple times, as I don't want the dumb thing on jack stands for two years, undergoing a full frame off restoration! So, I'm kinda building and repairing in stages. When I upgraded to the ZJ steering, all of the TRE were replaced, so the whole system is new. The "rails" that the brake pads slide on are worn on my front steering knuckles....so When I replace them, it will get ball joints, bearings, and U-joints in the axles. Its all planned out, so that I can catch it up on maintenance AND enjoy it at the same time.

One of the challenges is it's just hard to sit there and look underneath a vehicle and really understand what needs to be done... Even really good Front End and alignment shops miss it all the time. It can be so many different things or just a combination of a little movement here and little movement there that ends up collectively giving you a fit.

Thanks ...I think one thing I was trying to express is just because of the wheelbase the vehicles are a little sensitive anyway ... and a compact off-road vehicle with good ground clearance was the original design target.
They are made to be maneuverable and maneuverability becomes a little bit of a challenge as the vehicle is driven at higher speeds.

Building in stages is also wiser than a shotgun approach in my opinion.

 

[RaymondT]

Excellent post. I bought a bone-stock 4-cyl TJ that had a lot of miles and virtually no rust, It needed a fair bit of freshening but I could see the potential. The #1 thing - nobody had mickey-moused the suspension with lift kits and oversized tires. To do it right cost a lot of money and a fair bit of knowledge/research. Simply sticking on large tires and jacking it up for the "look" is akin to a teenager stuffing a sock down their pants. Just as a hard-core rock crawler is built with purpose, so must a daily driver be. Too often we're mislead by advertisers and peer pressure.

Here are some of the things I've found that improve the ride and lessen vibrations on a TJ;

• Rancho RS5000x - great shock. The design and valving seem to suit a TJ. A shock simply fitting isn't enough.
• Don't go by look on the body mounts. They're hollow! Can be totally pounded out but look great on the outside. Causes the body to shift on the frame around corners.
• Freshen all the control arm bushings if needed or replace the arms. Moog are decent for $$$. On level ground, loosen up all the control arm and track rod bolts, bounce the bumpers, and retorque to spec. I used a couple 2X6's under each wheel to provide additional clearance. Just drove up in 4lo. This alone made a big difference.
• Vibrations - get the shafts balanced. I rebuilt both mine with Spicer parts, cleaned, painted, new slip-yoke, original weights - and they were both out according to the shop. Check run-out on axle-shafts, wheels, and try to find a good tire shop for balancing - good luck!
• Rotors don't usually cause balance problems but watch those jobber drums! A Jeep guru at a tire shop suggested them as a potential issue after diagnosing mine. Centric premium drums got rid of a high speed vibration 50-65mph.
• Tire choice is key. An AT tire of a decent make that's not too aggressive is probably the best compromise. It's not going to ride like a Michelin all-season but will handle the odd foray into the bush.

 

[AndyG]

Fantastic. .that is a textbook case of dialing in a Jeep for optimum performance.

 

[TJ2]

Okay guys, let's see your rigs, sounds like you know how not to mess up.
I have to be honest, sounds like most of you are "yuppies", it is a bit offensive in a way.

 

[AndyG]

I just described everything that was on my vehicle.

The point of the whole thread is that it's not some mythical suspension brand or setup that solves all the issues of why some Jeeps drive and handle poorly .

I can't show you a picture of a worn suspension bushing because I don't have any. I can't show you pictures of bad tires because I'm not going to run bad tires. I can't show you pictures of ungreased ball joints because mine are full of grease.

If you have good tires and overall have the vehicle properly maintained and aligned it's probably going to drive pretty good.


The other point is you can't just often fix one thing and solve all the issues when you have 28 components that have varying degrees of wear.

This thread is really not totally subjective, it's actually just a general overview .

You can have the world's greatest suspension but if you have crappy shocks and tires you're going to know it.

And vice versa.

My Jeep is on the Jeep of the month list... And it looks about like everyone on there.

I don't know if I'm a yuppie but I do know that I'm a human being, I run a construction company , worked as a mechanic in my youth , and just regeared my Jeep at home . It was like giving birth at home ..messy and I couldn't bail out .

I'm just throwing out an overall view and things to look for... And I can't think of anything whatsoever that would be offensive in this thread, and certainly don't mean to offend anyone .

And I don't want to give the impression that you've got to have a lot of money and just be able to afford to do everything....... I have seen times in my life that I was so broke that my own wife would not take a check from me.


It's not about being a mastermind of vehicle mechanics... It's about looking at all the potential components that result in good ride and drive quality....in short , it's about thinking about the overall package and all the things that you need to look for.

And it's a tough deal to sort out... You do one thing and it improves things ... But then other things become obvious ..you smooth out your driveline , then you realize your tires shake , etc.

 

[TJ2]

From your point #2 saying "owner ignorance" kind of hit hard to some of us that cannot afford what you guys can afford.

I thought TJ owners tend to help each other instead of branding others as ignorant if they tend to lag a little due to budget constraints not like the Joneses.

Cheap parts, bad roads, avoids most house brands, new pavement is heavenly, I know it's how you live your life but come on man don't rub it off.

 

[AndyG]

My apologies , my intention was to say previous owner ignorance or neglect .

I edited that , thanks for pointing it out .

Most everyone on here I've noticed really wants to be up to speed on caring for their vehicle the best they can . That's so cool


All TJ's are used vehicles now days , and most of us get them and inherit all the crap people did or didn't do....then we have to figure out how to straighten them out .

I live down in North Alabama man , and we are just like everyone else , working hard , trying to make it , doing the best we can afford , turning our own wrenches when we can , and learning as we go.


The reason I say new roads are heavenly , is because most of ours are so bad ....it is nice to get on a good one .

Usually around here , if a tornado hits , it's does millions of dollars in improvements.

I can see that came across as " oh this is how to do it ,etc"

My intention was, this is what affects the vehicle and how it rides and drives ...and it does ..all these things come into play, and we all have to work through it the best we can if we need to.

Also, it's better to realize all this , and fix one a little at a time , than throw a whole lot of money someone doesn't need to spend on some suspension kit , and it ends up not improving the vehicle ....or making it worse .

A guy can slap some tie rod ends on Saturday morning , two weeks later fix some u joints , and keep on going as he works out the bugs .

I'm not advocating you have to break the bank and go through the entire vehicle all at once ...I didn't . You just often can't straighten out a Jeep with wear with just one part.

I lost everything I had when I was 23... And nearly did again in 2010/11... So I understand all about financial limitations. Basically it took me 26 years to get where I could afford even buy another one of these things.

 

[TJ2]

We're good.
I still wants to see your rig though

 

[AndyG]

I 'll try to get one up..every time it says image to big , I'll see if Chris can help me.

 

[Sancho]

You know... tbh... I really don't care how it rides.. as long as its safe and has purpose.


Its true about the tires balance and ride.. I remember my first set of ko's back in 06, and how unbalanced they were.. i would get crazy dw at 55 on the freeway.

I hit a higher pucker level dealing with that.. then offroading steep decscents.