Dead battery: Interior lights won't shut off

[BobK]

In which case, I just eliminated both door switches and the multifunction switch, by disconnecting its harness too. The lights stayed on through out. I also removed the panel under the steering column and the side piece, even took the speaker out to trace the wire from the drivers door switch. These two wires are only about 6-8 inches long and then disappear into a wiring bundle that is over an inch round. No obvious signs of fraying or a short. On the passenger side, they are wrapped in what looks like the original electric tape all the way up until they too enter a smaller bundle of wires.

 

[mushdogs]

You’ve pretty much eliminated everything that isn’t wiring.
dbbd1’s tip about the 12v light across #26 is good. Tracing wiring sucks and is tedious. But that’s how you’re going to find it. Flexing each section, feeling/looking for crushes, nicks, pinches and cuts. Anything that doesn’t seem right. Unwrapping connectors and unplugging/plugging back in.

Heaven forfend it’s the computer itself.

Setting a match to it and walking away isn’t an option.

 

[BobK]

You’ve pretty much eliminated everything that isn’t wiring.
dbbd1’s tip about the 12v light across #26 is good. Tracing wiring sucks and is tedious. But that’s how you’re going to find it. Flexing each section, feeling/looking for crushes, nicks, pinches and cuts. Anything that doesn’t seem right. Unwrapping connectors and unplugging/plugging back in.

Heaven forfend it’s the computer itself.

Setting a match to it and walking away isn’t an option.

Thanks. You're correct, I've eliminated the door switches and the multifunction switch. I've traced a small part of the wiring from the door switches to where they join the larger wiring bundles. But I am concerned/curious about the role of the computer.

On another forum, I've been told that the computer plays no role in this situation. Yet Jerry told me that it is and I trust his opinion. I thought the computer was involved in the 20-30 second delay in turning the lights off when shutting down. And I thought the computer was involved in the twenty minute delay if you leave the door ajar and the lights on. I've had this happen once and the battery was saved by the fact that the Jeep shut the lights down after the 20 minute delay.

Here is my concern (confessional time), if the computer can can invoved. Last weekend, while installing a winch (since disconnected as part of my troubleshooting) I managed to arc a wrench between the positive battery terminal and the hood....trust me many bad words were said. Could I have shorted out the computer?

 

[TJ4Jim]

Have you tried just depressing the door switches with your thumb. Not unusual for the switch to be driven to far into the jam for it to work.

 

[BobK]

Have you tried just depressing the door switches with your thumb. Not unusual for the switch to be driven to far into the jam for it to work.

I sure have. In fact, I have removed them several times, they seems to be working fine. I've eeven taped cardboard to them to ensure they are closing completely.

 

[TJ4Jim]

I sure have. In fact, I have removed them several times, they seems to be working fine. I've eeven taped cardboard to them to ensure they are closing completely.

So no joy when you press them by hand.

 

[BobK]

So no joy when you press them by hand.

I haven't found anything bringing me joy since I found the TJ with a dead battery.

 

[mushdogs]

I’ve lived dangerously and welded on mine without disconnecting the battery ground. Could you have scrambled something by arcing with your wrench,,, yeah, but honestly they’re made of a little sterner stuff.
I would check, double check and check again the wiring harnesses and plugs before I plop down money for a new ‘puter. But don’t go by me. I’m kinda stubborn and cheap about stuff like that, according to my wife. I prefer the terms obstinate and thrifty.

 

[lindsey97]

Have you drilled holes in the body anywhere, installing new items, such as rock rails, and nicked a wiring harness in the process?

 

[Daryl]

You don’t happen to have or remnants of an aftermarket alarm system do you?

 

[dbbd1]

Unplugging C2 from your PCM should remove it from the equation...

 

[pagrey]

Carefully looking at the diagram posted in post #38 you can see that the upper half is YL/BR which is B+ or always 12V. The lower half is YL/OR and there are no additional connections listed. So this means that the power (or ground) for the interior lights shown on this page is coming from the instrument cluster pin 5 C2.

Keep in mind the dimmer on the multi-function switch connects to the instrument cluster along with all the door switches and not the PCM. I don't see how the PCM can play a role in this.

Edit: this also means that if any YL/OR wire is shorted to ground the interior lights will stay on no matter what the cluster says

 

[pagrey]

On another forum, I've been told that the computer plays no role in this situation.

Post or PM the forum, sounds like some good info over there.

 

[dbbd1]

Just for grins?
If one of the door switch wires was shorted (YL/DG) to ground, it could help isolate where the problem is.
It does show that with #4 fuse removed, the PCM is removed as a possibility for causing the problem, by itself.
And, this shows that the delay and/or 20 minute auto-shutoff is incorporated into the PCM.

 

[BobK]

Just for grins?
If one of the door switch wires was shorted (YL/DG) to ground, it could help isolate where the problem is.
It does show that with #4 fuse removed, the PCM is removed as a possibility for causing the problem, by itself.
And, this shows that the delay and/or 20 minute auto-shutoff is incorporated into the PCM.

Thank you all for your input, this issue is driving me crazy. Here are some answers to questions above:

1) no new holes drilled anywhere, especially where it could touch a wire.
2) no aftermarket alarm system, this is an 03 X basic, vanilla, stock Jeep
3) I can see that C2 is a good connector to disconnect in troubleshooting, any ideas where it is located?

I've tried to eliminate things in the wiring diagram path for the courtesy lights. I removed the door switches, without the switches the lights should go out. I removed the multifunction switch, if it was shorting out, disconnecting it should allow the lights to go out. If I'm wrong in these assumptions, please tell me.

Last night while reviewing the wiring diagrams, I too looked at the ignition switch and wondered it it could be the problem. The only other issue in my mind is the darn computer (ECM) if it somehow got fried by the arc from the positive terminal to ground when I accidentally arced my wrench between the positive battery terminal while installing the winch (direct to battery, no switches or extra wiring, since disconnected while troubleshooting)

As a result, I have two questions for the wisdom of the group. First, can I disconnect the ignition switch connectors to eliminate it from the light issue? Will taking it out of the circuit potentially allow the lights to go out if it is the problem?

Second, can anyone definitely tell me that the ECM is involved in the light timing issue (delay and fade on exit, as well as battery saver 20 minute function)?

 

[BobK]

Unplugging C2 from your PCM should remove it from the equation...

View attachment 108424

dbbd1 thank you for pointing this out. I have looked at the diagrams until I'm blind. Let me pass some logic along and tell me if I'm correct. In looking at the diagram you supplied above, if Fuse #4 is removed and the lights stay on, then shouldn't that eliminate the door switches and their wiring as being responsible for the problem?

If that answer is yes, doesn't that point to the ignition switch as a potential trouble maker?

 

[dbbd1]

With fuse 4 removed, it removes the door switches but not necessarily the wiring. It could still be grounded out somewhere. With the PCM C2 connector disconnected, we remove the door switches and wiring as a possibility (a possibility that a grounded wire is tricking the PCM into turning on the lights- but, if you have the 20 minute auto-shutoff, they should still go out. This may be an necessary step but, again, just for grins, just to help isolate things)

Specifically the VL or VL/YL wires...

 

[BobK]

Is C2 one of the three connectors plugged into the PCM

 

[BobK]

I have now removed fuse #4, disconnected and removed the multifunction switch and disconnected the connector to the ignition switch. Lights are still on but holding for 20+ minutes to see if they will go out - I’m doubtful.

 

[pagrey]

The cluster is what's doing all this. The ignition switch works, so do the door switches. You already tested they work with the buzzer test. Their signals are getting to the cluster, they don't go anywhere else. It can't be the door switches. It can't be the ignition switch. It's wiring, the color I mentioned or the cluster.