Rear Main Seal Replacement (4.0)

First off I just want to say thank you for spending the time to put this tutorial together. Excellent directions along with the photos.

After completing the steps I thought I nailed it...The Jeep did not leak after filling it with oil and driving it around the block. Although today I drove about 50 miles and noticed is was leaking again. I did “shaved” a razor thin of material off the inside rear seal as I carefully inserted it. Could this be the problem to the leak?
Steve
Yeah, shaving that material is probably the problem. My first replacement leaked too, after a little bit. I just parked on cardboard until I had an opportunity to redo the work. Used a Mopar seal the second time, and it's been holding for over a year now.
 
Same thing happened to me first time I did it. On the bright side everything will be easy to take apart for the next time. I’m leak free for about 4000 miles so far. Don’t get discouraged it happens.
 
Yeah, shaving that material is probably the problem. My first replacement leaked too, after a little bit. I just parked on cardboard until I had an opportunity to redo the work. Used a Mopar seal the second time, and it's been holding for over a year now.
Do I need to replace the oil pan gasket a second time since I just placed it?
 
First off I just want to say thank you for spending the time to put this tutorial together. Excellent directions along with the photos.

After completing the steps I thought I nailed it...The Jeep did not leak after filling it with oil and driving it around the block. Although today I drove about 50 miles and noticed is was leaking again. I did “shaved” a razor thin of material off the inside rear seal as I carefully inserted it. Could this be the problem to the leak?
Steve

It could be the issue, yes. These things can be a real pain in the butt to get seated correctly. I think some of it literally just comes down to luck from what I've seen. Sometimes you do the install perfectly and they still leak, other times they don't.

In hindsight, the rear main seal design on these things is a pretty poor design.
 
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First off I just want to say thank you for spending the time to put this tutorial together. Excellent directions along with the photos.

After completing the steps I thought I nailed it...The Jeep did not leak after filling it with oil and driving it around the block. Although today I drove about 50 miles and noticed is was leaking again. I did “shaved” a razor thin of material off the inside rear seal as I carefully inserted it. Could this be the problem to the leak?
Steve

Make sure you check your valve cover gasket. I changed my RMS and it was actually the valve cover leaking. The oil leak will appear in the same spot.
 
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I know that feeling all to well :ROFLMAO:
Haha, I'm sure you can relate! I was in and out of the garage what seemed like 25 times over the 3 day weekend. About halfway through, I came in the house to take a research break when I was working on removing and replacing the RMS itself. The wife looked at my dirty and sore body and gave me the look "why are you doing this?". I wondered the same! I worked on and off as I had time, but all in all I bet it was a whole work day I spent. Probably even longer if including the parts run I made and the time messing around with some other things in the garage.

All pain aside, I had no leaks under the TJ this morning after a shakedown run last night. Everything is still bone dry. This is the first time in a long while I can say that! Hopefully the success will continue (knocks on wood).
 
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@mots Thanks for the post. What would you say the level of effort was on a scale of 1-10? How mechanically savvy are you?

I changed my valve cover gasket and am still leaking...debating taking the plunge.
 
@mots Thanks for the post. What would you say the level of effort was on a scale of 1-10? How mechanically savvy are you?

I changed my valve cover gasket and am still leaking...debating taking the plunge.

Even easier except it all drips down on your face. If you can, drop the pan and leave it to drip for a day before starting.
 
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@mots Thanks for the post. What would you say the level of effort was on a scale of 1-10? How mechanically savvy are you?

I changed my valve cover gasket and am still leaking...debating taking the plunge.
Hi, you are welcome. I am not a professional mechanic, but I did sleep at a Holiday Express the night before, haha! (sorry if this joke doesn't translate).

On a more serious note, I have been working on cars over 30 years since I was 16. I have done an engine rebuild on 90 300zx and some other involved projects I would consider a 9/10 (a project like this also with fabbing and welding involved would be a 10 in my book, or a frame off restore would quality as a 10). The TJ is new to me since I have only had it for going on 2 years. While the TJ RMS maybe a 6-7 on the scale of complexity, it is a dirty and tedious job that can and easily be botched by amateurs or professionals. It's definitely a 7 if you are doing it on Jack stands by yourself.

That said, the attention to detail of the instructions IS critical. Remember, the crankshaft is rotating and the seal needs to be perfect on the rotating bearing. If you gouge the journals or bearing the RMS runs on as you remove the old half moon seals you will botch the process and likely looking at an expensive engine repair. Also, many tear the seal when trying to install and have to pay for another, or leak if they risk it. Even the so called experts can botch this install if they are not careful not to damage things, or do not follow the instructions (anaerobic sealer etc.).

For me, not sure I will do this job again myself, but I knew the risks going in and chose to not let someone else touch it, LOL. I wanted to know what happened and if it was done correctly. While somewhat of a risk for me, I decided I didn't want to pay big bucks, not know what happened, and potentially have shit show on my hands that I couldn't control (if someone else botched it). If I was paying the big bucks that the pro shops wanted, I would want a warranty of no leaks from the RMS or oil pan for a certain period of time. This warranty is hard to find, especially for a reasonable price. If you do pay someone, definitely find someone that will take their time, offer a warranty, and be responsible for their work. Some folks on here quoted like $275. Not sure how this price also includes an oil change with filter $30, the RMS $20, the new oil pan gasket $20, the 2 proper gasket makers ($10), or a warranty of any kind if they have to go back in afterwards. If someone quoted me $275, I would run unless I knew them very well and understood why I was getting a deal.
 
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Even easier except it all drips down on your face. If you can, drop the pan and leave it to drip for a day before starting.
Agreed. Mine was cold and in a 30 degree garage when I opened her up. The dripping wasn't bad at all since all the oil was in the pan already and any oil that was clinging up top was cold and barely dripped. I still let it drain overnight before I proceeded. And I still took a drip or two on the head!
 
Just an FYI: at the beginning of this thread there is a picture of a rear main bearing when the cap was pulled for the new 2 piece rear main seal. The bearing in the photo shows it is down to the copper. The reason that bearing is falling out is it is worn out. A new Bearing is required. Unfortunately if you see this condition you should replace all the main bearings not just the rear main. If you are down to the copper the slop in your crankshaft bearing to crank clearance will cost you oil pressure at idle. Copper is one layer in your main bearing, copper is covered by the overplate, in normal wear the copper should not show for over 150,000 miles, in the photo copper shows all accross the bearing showing a lot of wear. You can roll in new engine bearings for not much money if your crankshaft surfaces are still clean and not scratched. If you feel grooves with your fingernail on the crank it is too rough.
New bearings can be installed in the car, loosen all the main bearings so the crank sags a little, they make aluminum little tools that slip into the oil gallery in the crankshaft, insert the tool in the oil hole of the crankshaft and turn the crankshaft by hand, the tool will grab the bearing and spin out the old one for the upper main bearings with the crank in place. Install the new upper bearings the same way. The lowers are easy they just snap in as you do one cap at a time.
Each cap is custom fitted to the block, it must go in the same spot and the same direction so mark them before removing or your engine fix will fail.
A new bearing has crush built into it. You snap it into the bearing cap and they don't fall out, they fit tight the install should be dry and clean, no oil or grease between the bearing half and the block or cap and they should be wiped clean. Anything between the cap or block and your bearings will cause problems. You want the bearing to seat into the cap and block tight and stay put.
New bearings will give you solid idle oil pressure. As long as you are this deep doing a rear main seal why not fix it.
If your bearings look clean, still show the aluminum or tin bearing material just do the rear main but if you see copper you have a worn bearing. If one is worn they are all worn.
In the later photos it does look like the bearings in your photos are brand new but putting grease inbetween the bearing and the cap or block is nuts. These are precision fit parts that need to fit metal to metal, no oil or grease you do not want these parts moving when the engine starts up.
After the bearings are installed in the cap you can oil the bearing face that will touch the crank with engine oil or a good assembly lube, nothing else on install. Very nice write up with many helpful items listed but this one note on adding grease to the bearing to hold it in place should not be followed. I worked for Federal-Mogul for 27 years, we manufactured Engine Bearings for nearly every manufacturer so I do have a little experience on this small issue. Hope it helps. Bearings are easy, Now if I can just figure out how to fix the electrical in the TJ!
 
Tackling the RMS this week. 2003 Rubicon.

Wondering if I will need to take off the entire exhaust down pipe to remove the oil pan or can I just loosen at the headers? That exhaust pipe seems like it would be an extra pain due to it's awkwardness and I really don't want to completely remove if i don't have to.
 
My 1999 2.5L has a one piece rear main seal and I think your 4.0L 2003 will certainly have the one piece rear main seal. Google your seal part number and look at it. A one piece seal comes right out the back behind the flywheel.
The oil pan does not need to be removed at all. Your one piece seal is a straightforward job but it involves removing the transmission or at least sliding it back about 1 foot to get room to pull that rear main seal out.
If you have any doubts about the condition of your clutch pressure plate or throwout bearing this is the time to change those since you will have to take them out to do a one piece rear main seal.
With my nephews help we pulled the drivelines and unbolted the tranny and had it out in about an hour and a half with two floor jacks and no tranny jack. I also utilized a 2" trucking strap at one point to support the tranny and transfer case as we pulled it. I took the strap side to side on my frame and used it to keep the tranny centered and on my floor jack as it was lowered.
You will also need to support the back of your oil pan. If you don't have another jack you can cut a 2x4 to proper length and place it between the floor and the rear of your oil pan. The rear of the engine will drop and maybe break your motor mounts if you do not do this.
We had the entire jeep up on Jack Stands, I think the tires were about 8" off the ground, gave us clearance to work.
Some of the top tranny bolts were hard to reach but I took all of my extensions, maybe 30" total with a swivel at the socket and was able to take out the bolts from a long way away quickly. Going back in I did the same thing but put some painters tape on the bolt head to make it stay in my socket while I reached way up there to the bolt holes.
The tape works wonders for this purpose. Once the bolt is installed just wiggle it and you can pull the socket off.

The one piece seals are unique, with your crankshaft in place you will have a challenge pulling out your old bad seal.
I have pulled several over the years and the easy way for me is to drill a self tapping seal into the body of the old seal and then use a pry bar to pry out the seal. You have to be very careful of the location you drill. If you mess up you can scratch the crank seal surface. On the other side you can damage the seal surface in your block. Knowing this you drill in the middle of the metal seal case, leave the screw a little loose so you have a little surface area to slip your pry bar inside to pry it out. I use a battery powered drill on high speed to get the self tapping screw drilled in.
On a few seals the first screw stripped out but it did move the seal a little. I just drilled another and tried again.
Once it took three tries but every time I got it out with no damage to the crank or block. Once The seal was so tough I put a screw on each side and pried on both at the same time with two pry bars, it came out. There may be a special seal removal tool built to take these out but this method worked just fine. I added a picture of the pry bar type I used and the specific screws, I like the screw with the pointed tip it holds better, they also have screws with a small drill head, those do not hold as well and stripped out right away when I tried this method.
Some guys pound a screwdriver through the seal case to pry it out, I think the screw method is safer.

The Screw tip also works on the pinion seals which can be a little hard to pull.

BTW: National makes a Teflon rear main seal and those things never leak unless you mess up the installation.

If you have not installed a teflon seal do some reading or ask on here and I can offer installation information.
Teflon seals come with a plastic installation sleeve/tool in the seal. You slip the plastic sleeve over the crankshaft and use it to expand the seal over the crank on install, once fully installed you grab the plastic installation tool with plyers and pull it out. This tool keeps the soft teflon from being scratched on install, you must use the tool with teflon seals. These need to go in clean and dry, no grease or oil on the crankshaft or the sealing surface of the seal. On the Outer Diameter of the seal you can use a little oil to make the outer diameter of the seal, rubber surface slip into your block. The dry teflon will impregnate into your clean dry crankshaft and you have teflon rubbing against the crank, as the crank rotates teflon impregnates into the crank surface and the seal will seal up and have zero drag. These cost about twice as much as the standard seal but the quality is so much better. They can last several hundred thousand miles with no leak. Every Diesel engine built has used teflon rear main seals for the durability since about 1995. The only ones I ever hear of leaking are from people who install them and ignore the install dry and clean instructions, they use oil or grease on the sealing lip and it keeps the teflon from impregnating like they need to so they fail.
There must be Youtube videos of a teflon seal install by now.
No joke the money spent on teflon rear main seals is money very well spent.
For those with the older engines using 2 piece rear main seals Teflon is not available, this is only for newer engines with the One Piece seal. Dang, that is a lot of words, Hope it helps

Mark

Pry bar and self tapping screws.jpg


Self Tapping Screws.jpg
 
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