Frame rust repair on our low mileage TJ in North Carolina

Things like paint and powder coat (along with Eastwood frame coat) can allow rust to build between the coating and the frame and will look fine while the metal rots away.

How is it different from fluid film?

From what i have read, Eastwood is thin and watery, and then turns into rubbery-like coating.
Which means that it should fill up all the crevices and seal up. So if you end up painting over the moisture, then there is a chance for things to keep rotting from the inside, which is no different than having moisture under the fluid film.
Additionally i have been told that cutting off the oxygen will stop further rusting.

Some paint/coating is breathable/porous, which is what causes metal to rot from the inside. Eastwood is not from that category. If i am or the things that i have read are wrong, i am all ears
 
How is it different from fluid film?

From what i have read, Eastwood is thin and watery, and then turns into rubbery-like coating.
Which means that it should fill up all the crevices and seal up. So if you end up painting over the moisture, then there is a chance for things to keep rotting from the inside, which is no different than having moisture under the fluid film.
Additionally i have been told that cutting off the oxygen will stop further rusting.

Some paint/coating is breathable/porous, which is what causes metal to rot from the inside. Eastwood is not from that category. If i am or the things that i have read are wrong, i am all ears

Isn't FF similar to WD-40 in that it disperses or repels water and doesn't allow it to "sit" in pockets?
 
Isn't FF similar to WD-40 in that it disperses or repels water and doesn't allow it to "sit" in pockets?

every lubricant I have heard of does that, from spay in the can to engine oil.
Inlike WD, FF has a tendency to stick to surface and not drip
 
every lubricant I have heard of does that, from spay in the can to engine oil.
Inlike WD, FF has a tendency to stick to surface and not drip

I guess I thought that it didn't allow pockets to form and sit underneath it as opposed to the Eastwood which I thought did potentially do that.
 
I guess I thought that it didn't allow pockets to form and sit underneath it as opposed to the Eastwood which I thought did potentially do that.

which is no different than having moisture under the fluid film.
It hardens to a rubbery coating, cracks because reasons, water/salt seeps in, is now trapped.

Fluid film or other oil is just oil, so if water gets under it, that means your coating has washed away and its time to re-apply, the best way to fight rust is just do the work and re apply as necessary, there's no real cheating that if your Jeep is going to be with you the rest of your life.

Buy fluid film by the gallon($37) and a cheap airless spray gun (HF 5GPH is $25 will spray FF) and get dirty once a year.
 
I guess I thought that it didn't allow pockets to form and sit underneath it as opposed to the Eastwood which I thought did potentially do that.

Ever look at the parking lot during the rain? Everything is soaked with water besides the spots where engine oil drips. Eventually rain will wash that oil, and those spots will be just as socked and not look any different. That is the concept of oil repelling the water.

Everything has a chance to let things through, with time, or if done incorrectly(missed the spot) to begin with.
What i asked the other guy is why is he bias towards FF and so against Eastwood, as if Eastwood is proven to fail?

I am about to visit my brother in DC, and he has a JK that suffers badly from rust, like year or two and his frame will look the same as OP. His fuel tank and transfer case plates are already rotted away.
Unfortunately he doesn't care about things as i do, he inherited more of intellectual genes compare to me. So im gonna spend my spring break under his Jeep, and coating inside of the frame with Eastwood is on the to-do list.
So if @Goatman knows something i don't, i hope he will speak up soon.
 
Ha if it's unclear, I'm agreeing with both of you. I much prefer FF and I am relentless about keeping my Jeep clean, especially the frame. I think Eastwood sounds like a wonderful product and it seems to have excellent reviews - I just decided that I don't think it's best for my personal situation.

I bought what I thought was a squeaky clean stock rig, and it mostly is. The driver's side of the frame is, to my knowledge, almost completely clean. It's the passengers side where I discovered a ton of chunks and flakes piled up after purchasing. Knowing what's already in there, I didn't feel comfortable covering it up. I'd rather apply and then check/reapply periodically. More expensive and time consuming but I much prefer it to setting and forgetting it. I DD mine, even in Midwest winters and the peak of salt season. I'd rather be able to wash it all off/out and then reapply fresh coats.
 
Fluid Film is lanolin based. It creeps into seams and cracks dispersing water. It climbs up and into any surrounding metal. You can see it working. And you can see through it to what the metal looks like. It can be reapplied as often as needed. It doesn't create a hard surface that can crack and chip thus allowing rust to get behind the surface and destroy the metal while appearing to be doing its job. Once you use the Eastwood product that is it. You have no idea if there is rust behind it. And even if you could there is nothing you can do about it. That is exactly the opposite of what I want inside a frame. It is nearly impossible to get the inside of the frame perfectly clean and clear of all rust chips and flakes. Paint over the rust and you have a perfect environment for rust to continue. Unseen and unable to do anything about it. And I have had terrible results using their products. Absolutely terrible. Others have reported good results. But they can only go by the outside layer. Not what is happening underneath.

If you want to use a hard coating then at least contain it to where you are able to remove it if you should ever need to. Adding more layers won't help the problem.

I guess think of it like whether you should paint the barn or use stain.
Stain will soak into the wood. Protecting it even if a cow rubs the wall the wood is still protected by the absorbed stain. And when it needs to be re-stained all you have to do is apply another coat.
With paint you need to be sure every bit of the wood has been stripped of any old paint or prime. Then after all the scraping and sanding you can apply the primer, and then the paint. If anything should crack the surface of the paint, be it flexing or bending or rubbing then the wood can now get wet and start to rot. Now, no paint or other hard surfaces last forever. You now have to scrape and sand and scrub every bit of the wood to remove the old paint completely or else the new paint will not hold. After all that labor you can then apply primer and a fresh coat of paint.
Inside a frame is the absolute worst place to have to scrape and sand every square inch.
 
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Thanks for the thread Dockdoc I am also a new user in your general area and it looks like I will be attempting a similar reframe project on my 2000 sport. Was there anything you wished you knew about before you started and where did you end up getting the frame? Links to any other resources you found helpful would also be great.
 
Thanks for the thread Dockdoc I am also a new user in your general area and it looks like I will be attempting a similar reframe project on my 2000 sport. Was there anything you wished you knew about before you started and where did you end up getting the frame? Links to any other resources you found helpful would also be great.

The biggest thing is rust, and decide the scope of the project you want to take on before you start. Rust will slow you down SO dramatically. There were times where something we thought would take an hour took an entire day because we had to melt and cut rusted bolts apart.

Also look at your torque box mounts before you even start (you can remove the body bolts and lift up one side of the tub at a time and inspect them). We did the rustrepairpatch.com kits, but it still required a bunch of grinding, cutting, welding etc.

This job requires a robust tool collection. We used all sorts of weird sockets and other wrenches, not to mention bearing press, welding equipment, plasma cutter, acetylene torch, etc. etc. Stuff that I don't have and would have been miserable if I had tried this without that stuff.

Consider NOT doing the suspension stuff at the same time as everything else. If we had skipped the bushings and what not, we could have been done much much faster. Most of that stuff is pretty easily accessible on the assembled vehicle anyway. Certainly easier with the body off though, but slowed the whole project down. If I had known, I would have postponed that for a later date and done it in my driveway.

Use OEM or equivalent bushings. We got the Prothane bushing kit and it sucked. Everything was super stiff and hard to work with. Missing hardware. Just a huge pain in the ass and for what? Major regret there. And don't bother replacing bushings in the control arms, just replace the control arms themselves. Not worth the headache of trying to press them out. We ended up replacing a handful of control arms that failed when we tried to push out the bushings. Ugh.

Label all hardware REALLY WELL. Whenever possible, put hardware back into their spot after removing a part so you automatically know where it lives.

We knew this going in, but most likely you'll end up replacing the clutch and flywheel while you've got everything off, which is clearly a good idea in most cases. We also did the rear main seal which was leaking on mine. That was a solid move, everything MUCH more accessible while the engine and trans are out anyway.

Frame: I found mine from Carolina Jeep Parts (they have a facebook site). It was used from a TJ that had been in an accident. Long story short - get the frame checked and double checked by a frame shop to assure it's not twisted. I also spent about $700 to have it sandblasted and epoxy painted for future protection. Looked brand new after that. There's a shop in Ohio that sells nice used Jeep frames, but they're more expensive and don't ship. If you're willing to drive, not a bad option.

Tub removal: This was easily the most challenging and thought-provoking part of the process. If you have access to a lift, you should be fine and you can skip this part. If not... what a nightmare. My friend engineered a pretty brilliant system, basically a jack stand on each side with a vertical post mounted to it, and atop that post a horizontal post with brackets that fit over the tub torque box. He fabbed this whole system together with square steel tubes. So then we jacked up each side at the same time, making sure it was balanced. When it was up in the air we built up wood braces using 4x4 posts lagged and screwed together to hold the tub, and then pushed the chassis out from underneath. Major undertaking but actually it worked perfectly in the end and the tub lived happily on that wood frame for a couple months while we tackled the rest of the job. If you'd like, I can see if he'd sell you those brackets (but they're probably specific to his floor jacks).

I think that's about it... It's a massive project, moreso than I realized. But I learned a lot about the vehicle (and vehicle repair/maintenance in general) in the process which was a big goal for me. I also have a new appreciation for certain tools that I want to build into my own collection, and know what I would want to work on (and not work on) in the future. E.g., rusted suspension components are going to be a deal breaker for me.
 
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The biggest thing is rust, and decide the scope of the project you want to take on before you start. Rust will slow you down SO dramatically. There were times where something we thought would take an hour took an entire day because we had to melt and cut rusted bolts apart.

Also look at your torque box mounts before you even start (you can remove the body bolts and lift up one side of the tub at a time and inspect them). We did the rustrepairpatch.com kits, but it still required a bunch of grinding, cutting, welding etc.

This job requires a robust tool collection. We used all sorts of weird sockets and other wrenches, not to mention bearing press, welding equipment, plasma cutter, acetylene torch, etc. etc. Stuff that I don't have and would have been miserable if I had tried this without that stuff.

Consider NOT doing the suspension stuff at the same time as everything else. If we had skipped the bushings and what not, we could have been done much much faster. Most of that stuff is pretty easily accessible on the assembled vehicle anyway. Certainly easier with the body off though, but slowed the whole project down. If I had known, I would have postponed that for a later date and done it in my driveway.

Use OEM or equivalent bushings. We got the Prothane bushing kit and it sucked. Everything was super stiff and hard to work with. Missing hardware. Just a huge pain in the ass and for what? Major regret there. And don't bother replacing bushings in the control arms, just replace the control arms themselves. Not worth the headache of trying to press them out. We ended up replacing a handful of control arms that failed when we tried to push out the bushings. Ugh.

Label all hardware REALLY WELL. Whenever possible, put hardware back into their spot after removing a part so you automatically know where it lives.

We knew this going in, but most likely you'll end up replacing the clutch and flywheel while you've got everything off, which is clearly a good idea in most cases. We also did the rear main seal which was leaking on mine. That was a solid move, everything MUCH more accessible while the engine and trans are out anyway.

Frame: I found mine from Carolina Jeep Parts (they have a facebook site). It was used from a TJ that had been in an accident. Long story short - get the frame checked and double checked by a frame shop to assure it's not twisted. I also spent about $700 to have it sandblasted and epoxy painted for future protection. Looked brand new after that. There's a shop in Ohio that sells nice used Jeep frames, but they're more expensive and don't ship. If you're willing to drive, not a bad option.

Tub removal: This was easily the most challenging and thought-provoking part of the process. If you have access to a lift, you should be fine and you can skip this part. If not... what a nightmare. My friend engineered a pretty brilliant system, basically a jack stand on each side with a vertical post mounted to it, and atop that post a horizontal post with brackets that fit over the tub torque box. He fabbed this whole system together with square steel tubes. So then we jacked up each side at the same time, making sure it was balanced. When it was up in the air we built up wood braces using 4x4 posts lagged and screwed together to hold the tub, and then pushed the chassis out from underneath. Major undertaking but actually it worked perfectly in the end and the tub lived happily on that wood frame for a couple months while we tackled the rest of the job. If you'd like, I can see if he'd sell you those brackets (but they're probably specific to his floor jacks).

I think that's about it... It's a massive project, moreso than I realized. But I learned a lot about the vehicle (and vehicle repair/maintenance in general) in the process which was a big goal for me. I also have a new appreciation for certain tools that I want to build into my own collection, and know what I would want to work on (and not work on) in the future. E.g., rusted suspension components are going to be a deal breaker for me.
Pics? Please? Would really love to see what you've accomplished!
 
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