Wildman's TJ is getting a face lift

[jjvw]

It's the added complexity to the mid arm install and very likely to the positioning of the shocks. The AiRock is adding compromises to both. We've already discussed the problems it creates for both the steering and driveshaft angles if it's feature of a variable ride height is implemented. Side hills are of minimal concern with the presence of sway bars and good shocks. Unless the AiRock has an auto leveling feature, you'll be occupying time fiddling with controls that is better spent focusing on driving.

That leaves ingress/egress as the only reason for existence of the AiRock. That one, I can't comment on the value over compromise because I simply don't know.

 

[Wildman]

It's the added complexity to the mid arm install and very likely to the positioning of the shocks. The AiRock is adding compromises to both. We've already discussed the problems it creates for both the steering and driveshaft angles if it's feature of a variable ride height is implemented. Side hills are of minimal concern with the presence of sway bars and good shocks. Unless the AiRock has an auto leveling feature, you'll be occupying time fiddling with controls that is better spent focusing on driving.

That leaves ingress/egress as the only reason for existence of the AiRock. That one, I can't comment on the value over compromise because I simply don't know.

IMHO you're making it more complex than it really is. I'm not driving down the road adjusting the height of the Jeep. I've explained the function of the AiRock system before. Below 20 MPH you can adjust the height but above that the computer takes over and adjusts the height. You have not been on some of the side hills we have trails on here. Yes shocks and swaybars do help but I have had more than 1person who has ridden with me that commented on how much better it feels. I'm not driving down the trail fiddling with buttons. The system uses the height sensors to know where each arm is and will return you to your set height.
The steering and driveline angles again are not a issue because you're not adjusting the height as your driving unless you are trying to over come a obstacle. I pretty much leave the controls alone unless there's a reason to mess with them.

The air bags are in the same place as your coil springs so how are they compromising the position of the shocks? I don't remember seeing anything about you moving the shocks on the front of your Jeep. So how is what I'm doing any different?

 

[jjvw]

How many rigs without bags have driven the same sidehills? We have the out here, btw.

 

[jjvw]

... I don't remember seeing anything about you moving the shocks on the front of your Jeep. So how is what I'm doing any different?

I haven't put good shocks in the front yet. When they happens, both the upper and lower will be repositioned.

 

[Apparition]

IMHO you're making it more complex than it really is. I'm not driving down the road adjusting the height of the Jeep. I've explained the function of the AiRock system before. Below 20 MPH you can adjust the height but above that the computer takes over and adjusts the height. You have not been on some of the side hills we have trails on here. Yes shocks and swaybars do help but I have had more than 1person who has ridden with me that commented on how much better it feels. I'm not driving down the trail fiddling with buttons. The system uses the height sensors to know where each arm is and will return you to your set height.
The steering and driveline angles again are not a issue because you're not adjusting the height as your driving unless you are trying to over come a obstacle. I pretty much leave the controls alone unless there's a reason to mess with them.

The air bags are in the same place as your coil springs so how are they compromising the position of the shocks? I don't remember seeing anything about you moving the shocks on the front of your Jeep. So how is what I'm doing any different?

They put airbags on so many vehicles now it makes sense to have them on a Jeep.

If my budget allows I’ll be adding a full airlift digitally controlled suspension to one of my cars this year.

Had a buddy that used to build 6 door superdutys and every one of them got controllable airbag suspension.

Looking forward to seeing your Jeep back together and some videos of it working.

 

[Wildman]

How many rigs without bags have driven the same sidehills? We have the out here, btw.

They drive them with people hanging off the high side of the rig to keep it from getting light on the high side.

I haven't put good shocks in the front yet. When they happens, both the upper and lower will be repositioned.

You keep saying this but every install I have read about the mid arm kit I have yet to read about anyone moving their front shocks. So can you please explain to me how and why you need to move the front shocks? I'm not understanding the reasons.

They put airbags on so many vehicles now it makes sense to have them on a Jeep.

If my budget allows I’ll be adding a full airlift digitally controlled suspension to one of my cars this year.

Had a buddy that used to build 6 door superdutys and every one of them got controllable airbag suspension.

Looking forward to seeing your Jeep back together and some videos of it working.

Yes there are a lot of vehicles with air bags now. I have them on my Ram 3500 that came that way from the factory. It self levels if you are hauling or towing. And when it's empty it rides a lot nicer.

 

[Wildman]

From ORO's web site:

AiROCK™


WHAT IS AiROCK
AiROCK™ is a computerized suspension system that provides the ultimate in control, both on and off road.
When driving on-road AiROCK™ provides a smoother ride and allows limited adjustments at a lower ride height. It constantly monitors ride height and automatically compensates for any body lean that occurs. By maintaining a lower center of gravity it provides improved handling and reduces the possibility of a roll over. These improvements allow a vehicle with very large tires to be used as a daily driver.
When driving off-road AiROCK™ provides complete manual control of the suspension. It allows the vehicle’s center of gravity to be altered by shifting it in any direction. The controls easily allow modification of approach and departure angles along with ride height.
In either mode the height and ground clearance is maintained independent of vehicle load. The system also has an optional “egress” setting to lower the vehicle when the ignition is switched off, making getting in and out easier and more safe.
WHY DO I NEED IT
Air springs articulate more naturally than coils making driving off of rocks less jarring and off camber situations more stable.
When changing to different sized tires, simply adjust the ride height from inside the cab instead of swapping out coils.
For off camber maneuvers you can lean the vehicle into the hill, and lower it to keep the center of gravity down.
Tired of hitting your bumper on tall rocks you’re trying to climb? Just tilt back or raise the vehicle to provide clearance for your bumper.
If you get high centered, simply raise the vehicle up and continue down the trail.
There are countless other situations that AiROCK™ systems make more safe and enjoyable.

COMPONENTS


AiROCK™ is a computer controlled system that replaces the coils with air springs. The bump stops are moved to the custom shock absorbers that come with the kit. The system includes:

• The user Control Interface.
• The AiROCK™ Control Unit (ACU).
• Four air springs.
• Four custom shocks.
• Four height sensors with stainless steel brackets.
• The wiring harness.
• Air line and fittings.

All of the parts in this kit are warrantied for one full year from the date of purchase.


The Control Interface consists of a display and six control buttons, encased in black anodized aluminum to ensure longevity and a clean OEM appearance. Its backlit display varies its brightness automatically with changes in daylight.


The ACU ties into the Vehicle Speed Sensor to constantly monitor the vehicle speed. It controls and monitors the pressure in the air springs and air supply along with monitoring the height sensors. This information not only allows AiROCK™ to operate in two different driving modes, off-road and on-road, but also to detect and diagnose any problems that might occur in the system.


OPERATION


AiROCK™ allows user control of the vehicle’s center of gravity by making height and/or tilt adjustments at the touch of a button. A simple, intuitive dash-mounted user Control Interface provides a powerful way of adjusting the vehicle’s suspension in real time.


The user Control Interface has four directional arrow buttons, a “check mark” button, and an “X” button.

• Push the left or right arrow button to tilt the vehicle left or right.
• Push the up or down arrow to tilt the vehicle forward or back.
• Push the left or right with an up or down button to tilt the vehicle diagonally toward the specified direction.
• Push the “check mark” button to automatically return to your preset off-road or on-road ride height.
• Push the “check mark” button with an up or down button to raise or lower the vehicle.

The functionality of the arrow buttons can be configured to be momentary or latching (automatic). When configured as momentary the adjustment occurs only as long as the button is held. When configured as latching the adjustment automatically continues to the full extent. Latched automatic adjustments can be immediately stopped by pressing the “X” button. The six buttons are also used to access and navigate the menus to initialize and configure AiROCK™.

TJ REQUIREMENTS


AiROCK™ is a coil replacement system but not a complete suspension lift kit. We offer both 4″ and 6″ AiROCK™ bolt-on kits for Jeep® Wrangler™ TJs.


If you do not already have a lift installed, we highly recommend using the Rubicon Express Extreme Duty Long Arm lift kit with the AiROCK™ 6″ system. As with any significant lift, the changes the drive line geometry to accommodate AiROCK™ must be addressed. A Slip Yoke Eliminator and rear CV Drive Shaft need to be installed in order to handle the extreme axle travel that the AiROCK™ system provides.


The AiROCK™ system also requires a clean supply of pressurized air from an on-board air (OBA) system. Some TJ owners already have an OBA system, which is why one is not included in the AiROCK™ kit. We do offer a separate OBA kit designed specifically for TJs. See our Complete Air Kit page for details. We also stock most of the fittings and accessories needed when piecing together your own OBA setup. Click here to see OBA kits and components in our store.


Here is a summary of the prerequisite components for installing AiROCK™ on a TJ:


For the 4″ AiROCK:
Slip yoke eliminator | CV drive shaft (rear) | Adjustable track bars* | Adjustable upper arms (rear)* | On-board air system

For the 6″ AiROCK™
Slip yoke eliminator | CV drive shaft (rear) | Long arm kit | Adjustable track bars* | Adjustable upper arms (rear)* | On-board air system
The following video clip displays our TJ with 6″ AIROCK kit, 1.25″ body lift and 35″ tires at the range of heights the AiROCK uses as presets.

As I said yesterday,
I'm not going to remove the AiRock system. If it was such an issue using the Savvy mid-arm kit with this then it should have been brought up in the suspension discussion.

It is a set it and forget it system most of the time. I don't change my lift height 90% of the time.

 

[jjvw]

...



You keep saying this but every install I have read about the mid arm kit I have yet to read about anyone moving their front shocks. So can you please explain to me how and why you need to move the front shocks? I'm not understanding the reasons.


...

The mid arm does not require moving shock mounts. Installing and fitting nicer shocks than what work on the factory shock mounts is what requires changing and moving the shock mounts. The mid arm is just a supporting modification that will augment what is there.

 

[Wildman]

The mid arm does not require moving shock mounts. Installing and fitting nicer shocks than what work on the factory shock mounts is what requires changing and moving the shock mounts. The mid arm is just a supporting modification that will augment what is there.

Okay I'm sorry to keep asking this but this is the first time I have heard of needing to move the shock mounts in the front . What does going to nicer shocks have to do with needing to change how the shocks are mounted?

My understanding is that you want the shocks to more in as close to a 90* motion to the control arm. If the springs (Which ever type they might be) are moving in a slight arc as the suspension goes from full droop to full stuff how would you move the mounts to accommodate this?

 

[mattcogdell]

Not sure what your thought of “move” is but they live within the same area. Just allowing for longer travel.

 

[Wildman]

Not sure what your thought of “move” is but they live within the same area. Just allowing for longer travel.

View attachment 160785View attachment 160786

I'm doing something similar to the tops of my shock towers. I like what you did for the lower mounts.

 

[Wildman]

As seems to always happen when you are doing something custom a SNAFU comes up. When I'd ordered the new pump for my compressor I had checked the shaft size as I'd planned on just swapping over my old pulley. But of course the new pumps shaft isn't threaded like the old one. And the new pump takes a V-belt where the old one used a serpentine belt.
So I ordered a new pulley for the motor and a V-belt also which will be here Thursday. So 2 more days of no air.

Not that I don't have a ton of things i can't do while I wait. So I'll get the pump mounted and ready so when the new pulley gets here it's ready.

First project was swapping the backing plates for the rear disc brakes.

 

[mattcogdell]

I'm doing something similar to the tops of my shock towers. I like what you did for the lower mounts.

Not my work. I save photos that I believe will be beneficial in helping me with projects.

 

[Wildman]

Not my work. I save photos that I believe will be beneficial in helping me with projects.

Great and thanks for sharing those pictures. It gives me ideas also.

 

[Wildman]

Because I am installing a GenRight center console I'm not keeping the parking brakes in the rear axle. These are Explorer disc brakes with a internal parking brake setup.
So if anyone needs the small parts (ie, springs and clips) I have them as spares for someone.

 

[jjvw]

I'm doing something similar to the tops of my shock towers. I like what you did for the lower mounts.

At the normal ride height, the RadFlos should have their travel divided in half. The upper and lower mounts go wherever is needed to achieve that. The bag travel from normal ride height is going to be one of the things that will set the parameters of the usable shock travel.

 

[Wildman]

At the normal ride height, the RadFlos should have their travel divided in half. The upper and lower mounts go wherever is needed to achieve that. The bag travel from normal ride height is going to be one of the things that will set the parameters of the usable shock travel.

OK that I understand. But you keep saying move the mounts. Is this what you mean? To move them so that the shock has equal travel up and down?

And thanks for putting up with my endless questions.

 

[Wildman]

The new pump for the compressor doesn't have the same footprint as the old pump. On the outer side I lucked out and the holes in the feet were hair close so all I had to do was enlarge the holes.

The inner side feet weren't anywhere near so I had to drill new mounting holes.

The 2 inner holes were centered punched and I drilled pilot holes.

Then stepped up the size until I got the size I wanted.

Then I went through my spare nuts and found two that fit the original bolts.
Tomorrow I'll run into town and pick up some copper tubing for the discharge pipe from the compressor pump to the tank. This new pump puts out a little higher CFM than the stock pump. And the discharge is on the opposite side so a new tube needs to be made.

 

[Wildman]

Okay going back and reading what ORO sent me when I asked about what height to set the bags at for full bump I have 10" in the front and 8" in the rear. Max extension for the bags is 22" for both the front and the rear. Which would mean I get a little more travel out of my rear that I do my front.

I'll have to talk to them again but what I would like to shoot for is 12" of travel in the front and 14" in the rear.
The front bags had no issues at 10" of compression from when I flexed it before. Just to show what it looked like here is the front bag at 10" of compression and then 24" of flex. (Which I know is 2" more than what he said I should be shooting for)

You can see why I can't go past 22" of travel with the bags. The question I can't answer yet is what my ride height will be if I am sitting at 6" of lift. l can't check any of that until a few other things are completed first.

Just got off the phone with the machine shop and got a HUGE scare...…. He has two Dodge 360 engines he is working on and they are both going into Jeeps. The other engine both the block and the heads are SHOT. The heads are cracked and the rear main bearing had spun and ruined the block. So he is telling me this and I am about ready to FREAK the heck out. So then he's like is yours the stroker engine? And I'm like yes. So I'm next in like for balancing and checking everything else out and then it'll be done. So about another week. Then I can bolt the drivetrain into place and check pinion angles and driveline clearance.

With the old shocks they were 10" travel shocks front and rear. The new upper mounts I have will raise the mount 2" which sets me at the 12" of travel I want from the front. And then when I get ready to do the rear I'll install the new shock tower to allow 14" of travel.

What am I missing? I know I don't want to burn anything in until I can fully cycle the suspension. Is there other things I need to be looking at or paying attention to?

 

[BuildBreakRepeat]

Okay going back and reading what ORO sent me when I asked about what height to set the bags at for full bump I have 10" in the front and 8" in the rear. Max extension for the bags is 22" for both the front and the rear. Which would mean I get a little more travel out of my rear that I do my front.

I'll have to talk to them again but what I would like to shoot for is 12" of travel in the front and 14" in the rear.
The front bags had no issues at 10" of compression from when I flexed it before. Just to show what it looked like here is the front bag at 10" of compression and then 24" of flex. (Which I know is 2" more than what he said I should be shooting for)

View attachment 160831

View attachment 160832

View attachment 160833

You can see why I can't go past 22" of travel with the bags. The question I can't answer yet is what my ride height will be if I am sitting at 6" of lift. l can't check any of that until a few other things are completed first.

Just got off the phone with the machine shop and got a HUGE scare...…. He has two Dodge 360 engines he is working on and they are both going into Jeeps. The other engine both the block and the heads are SHOT. The heads are cracked and the rear main bearing had spun and ruined the block. So he is telling me this and I am about ready to FREAK the heck out. So then he's like is yours the stroker engine? And I'm like yes. So I'm next in like for balancing and checking everything else out and then it'll be done. So about another week. Then I can bolt the drivetrain into place and check pinion angles and driveline clearance.

With the old shocks they were 10" travel shocks front and rear. The new upper mounts I have will raise the mount 2" which sets me at the 12" of travel I want from the front. And then when I get ready to do the rear I'll install the new shock tower to allow 14" of travel.

What am I missing? I know I don't want to burn anything in until I can fully cycle the suspension. Is there other things I need to be looking at or paying attention to?

As far as shock placement goes, you should want the shock to be in the middle of its stroke at trail height, or as close as you can get to that. With your steering, trackbar, brackets, and arms all at least tacked in you should be then able to see where the shock mounts need to go. It all changes if you decide on a different shock length but you seem to have a grasp of what you want. Can you driveshaft handle 14” shock in the rear at droop?