HardSell
TJ Enthusiast
Why? What happened?
"-When you have a choice, buy American made." Ox is American.
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Help figuring out locker options for my Dana 44 install
- Thread starter qslim
- Start date
"-When you have a choice, buy American made." Ox is American.
Early Ox locker years wouldn't stay in adjustment but even after they kinda fixed that issue they continue to be a huge PITA getting their very stiff cable routed and lever installed well enough to make them work. There are other better alternatives which is why Ox's market share of the locker industry is and always has been a very low percentage. Like in one year's list of the vehicles in the King of the Hammers event, out of something like 150 vehicles, only 3-4 had Ox lockers and they were sponsored by Ox. The vast majority had ARB Air Locker, the next closest was the Detroit Locker. I suspect the E-Locker is more represented now.
HardSell
TJ Enthusiast
Good info. I did say in my post that cable installation presented its own challenges and would not be my first choice for method of engagement. The Ox set up is better than a grand (cost) and would indeed be frustrating if trouble followed. I liked the diff cover being the interface. I played a little bit with the engaging lever while visiting a retailer, noticing the ease and simplicity of movement. Offering all three methods for actuation of the same lever set up is very attractive. I've not heard whether the locker itself is bullet proof. If only the E-locker offered a direct mechanical scheme for engaging in the inevitability of an electrical failure, (the inevitability of computer/electronic failures is why I have not purchased a JL. they drive beautifully.....but try trail fixing a proximity key start failure 40 miles from the next vehicle....I've been there....was able overnight to repair my XJ's sudden electrical fire in Lockhart) then I'd certainly go with that. I'm soured on air pressure set ups. Detroit or Aussie for me in the future. Will be going out to driveway later to open diff to see where the air is going in my TJR. Air is arriving at entry just fine and am able to get the pump to stop by blocking air flow at tube end. It's an inside job now. Any Ideas?
The e-locker itself is very simple. If it has 12 volts, it is locked. If it has no voltage, it is unlocked. I’m sure in an emergency you could hotwire it to a random 12 volt source. Or you could unplug it to unlock it. Powering it is no more complex than powering a light bulb.
The new style 4-pinion e-locker works similar to an ARB, though the force required to engage is provided by a solenoid rather than an air bladder.
A solenoid is little more than a coil of wire electrically.
The new style 4-pinion e-locker works similar to an ARB, though the force required to engage is provided by a solenoid rather than an air bladder.
A solenoid is little more than a coil of wire electrically.
Either the little short rubber hose inside the housing that connects between the air bladder and port might have come off, or the air bladder inside the locker actuator has a leak in it like happened to one of mine nearly ten years ago.
And while I don't own one, I know the ARB Air Locker is FAR more reliable than a few non-owners think it is.
HardSell
TJ Enthusiast
Thanks! I can deal with short rubber hoses better than the complicated fragile, rigid ARB lollipop crap and half dozen Orings and seals inside the pumpkin. Air Bladders? I'll see. Watch the vid for an unbiased in depth look at ARBs. The ARB guys got about 3 grand of my bucks for both XJ axles. I replaced two compressors and @ $90 the two molded air pressure sensors mounted past each air pressure regulator assembly which follow the compressor exhaust manifold. That's all before the air gets to the compressor end of the tube going to the diff! And that's the simple stuff! All that crap degrades over time under the hood whether you use it or not, with temps ranging from 10 below to 170 above. Plastic, rubber, copper, aluminum. I put a few figures together as to the per minute cost of ARB operation. I figured over the past 20 years of operation, my ARBs had fewer than 60 minutes of cumulative engagement. I turn em off after climbing. Cost per minute rivaled brain surgeon fees without the insurance! This guy is charming to watch....reminds me of the little green Geiko gecko, the kind of neighbor every 4 wheeler wished he had.
HardSell
TJ Enthusiast
Good call! Fixed it this morning. Thanks! After some observations, my opinion is the factory TJR air locker is a superior design to the second generation ARBs certifiably installed in my once-upon-a-time XJ. The hardware is more substantial and the air actuation design far simpler and straight forward. I can't speak for the latest ARB generation. However, I believe ARBs still require a substantial compressor to push 90lbs of air, still using that lolipop connecting affair wrapping around the entire locker with a fragile solder joint between the rigid, fragile copper tube and the air pressure ring stack requiring two fragile 3" O rings to seal off air serving an internal plunger mechanism for engaging and releasing. The clutch pack in my Cherokee Dana 44 had to be removed to acommodate the ARB. The clutch pack in the Rubicon is present and substantial. Rather than a fragile serpentine $200 lolipop tube affair to deliver 90 lbs of air to actuate the locker, a simple hose of common material joins two easily accessible nipples to deliver a much lower psi pressure. A clamp ring was absent from the upper nipple causing the tube to slip off. The lower nipple had a clamp. I used that on the upper nipple and improvised one for the lower nipple. Locker then worked flawlessly with little effort from the compressor.
Having ruined two rear factory lockers and concerned about my front with it's only having two noisy and irreplaceable spider gears, I'll take ARB any day.
HardSell
TJ Enthusiast
The factory locker does not compare to the ARB IMHO. The seal housing is $100, not $200, and it is most likely an installer issue if you are having problems. The blue air line is not fragile like you think. Do parts break on occasion? Sure. At least ARB engineered sacrificial parts to keep repairs simple and inexpensive i.e. clutch gear unlike the factory locker where you can't find many replacement parts.
HardSell
TJ Enthusiast
I lived with ARBs for 18 years. There was good, bad, and ugly. Good, the 20% of the time they worked without fuss. The lockers themselves stayed intact, but none of the rubber, plastic, pot metal, aluminum, molding, etc., to engage the lockers was even minimally serviceable. The fastening pins on the rocker switches broke first use; never bothered to replace 'em, just let 'em sit there knowing the limitations. Replaced the blue line with 3/16" copper tubing to end 5 years of leaking cracking, patching, melting, joining etc. Compressors kept blowing Orings every time I wheeled in 105 degree Utah heat. Third compressor was finally a decent design. Extremely fragile electrical wiring is molded NOT CONNECTED into plastic pressure sensors @$90. Wire breaks off after cold winter. None of this was installation related. It was plain and simple inferior materials, concept and design. There's a reason the seal housing is called a lollipop. I was sad when the XJ was stolen, but I don't miss the ARBs. Was considering sticking a Detroit in rear before that happened. The ARB in the Dana 30 fared better due to the 2wd front axle disconnect feature in the XJ. It's like a marriage, when it goes sour, you get out and avoid making the same mistakes. Have wheeled the TJ a lot this summer no trail issues so far. Rear locker repair a no cost cinch. I'm glad you're happy with your set up. You should be happy for me as well rather than defending my X.
The 20-year-old three-piece case ARB lockers in my Jeep and previous Jeep have never given me so much of a whimper of trouble. The only issue I ever had, which was unrelated to ARB and easily overcome, was due to failure of the coalescing filter in the AC compressor onboard air system I had. Switching to the ARB compressor and wiring harness has eliminated that issue entirely.
The current two-piece case ARBs are stronger and I believe there have also been upgrades to the air delivery system.
To the OP, I think you'd be happier with a selectable locker if your Jeep is primarily street-driven.
I lived with ARBs for 18 years. There was good, bad, and ugly. Good, the 20% of the time they worked without fuss. The lockers themselves stayed intact, but none of the rubber, plastic, pot metal, aluminum, molding, etc., to engage the lockers was even minimally serviceable. The fastening pins on the rocker switches broke first use; never bothered to replace 'em, just let 'em sit there knowing the limitations. Replaced the blue line with 3/16" copper tubing to end 5 years of leaking cracking, patching, melting, joining etc. Compressors kept blowing Orings every time I wheeled in 105 degree Utah heat. Third compressor was finally a decent design. Extremely fragile electrical wiring is molded NOT CONNECTED into plastic pressure sensors @$90. Wire breaks off after cold winter. None of this was installation related. It was plain and simple inferior materials, concept and design. There's a reason the seal housing is called a lollipop. I was sad when the XJ was stolen, but I don't miss the ARBs. Was considering sticking a Detroit in rear before that happened. The ARB in the Dana 30 fared better due to the 2wd front axle disconnect feature in the XJ. It's like a marriage, when it goes sour, you get out and avoid making the same mistakes. Have wheeled the TJ a lot this summer no trail issues so far. Rear locker repair a no cost cinch. I'm glad you're happy with your set up. You should be happy for me as well rather than defending my X.
Very little of that matches my reading and first hand observations. But I don't know anyone who runs the early ARB stuff.
IMO, any and all factory Rubicon lockers are a ticking time bomb, especially the LSD. They are all going to fail and when they do, with few exceptions, they cannot be repaired.
I had an old 3 piece design ARB in my old Dana 30 and it kept sheering the retaining bolts (most likely due to axle flex from not enough pre-load). I've seen them welded together to get by. ARB changed it for a reason. The two piece design is very well made. Not sure if the OP had old or new design.
That's an issue with the Dana 30 not the ARB. Even the venerable Detroit Locker has that trouble too when installed in a Dana 30.
The newer style ARB's don't have that problem as there are no retaining bolts other than the ring gear bolts. It wasn't all the turdy's fault...
It was redesigned to be stronger to be able to withstand the extra flex the Dana 30 exhibits. The root cause of locker failures was the Dana 30's added flex that caused problems for not just the ARB but other lockers like the Detroit Locker. Which is indeed the fault of the Dana 30 not the locker design. They were made stronger simply so they could survive the extra flex of the Dana 30.
That's a chicken or the egg problem. Is the Dana 30 too flimsy to handle an ARB/Detroit? Or is the ARB/Detroit inadequately designed to survive inside a Dana 30. Either way ARB seems to have taken steps to address that problem in a way that improved the overall product line.