Insurance Question to the Community

[glowell222]

So my insurance agent is advising that I move from full coverage to liability-only coverage due to the policy cost difference, age of the Jeep, and potential for write-off vs value of the actual Jeep. Over the next 36 months, the policy cost savings if I change are significant compared to the value of my TJ.

So for all of you out there with multiple costly mods and other considerations that take money, how do you insure your vehicle? How do you determine value? Are you using traditional insurance companies and coverage, or is there something else out there? Any advice or suggestions?

 

[Mr. Bills]

You ask a very broad question. What exactly are you trying to insure and what are the numbers? What 'multiple costly mods' are causing you concern?

 

[KingCarGuyZ]

Liability only, though I don't have too much costly mod's. Same with my show car. completely custom, priceless to me had it appraised, so now if they write it off I get at least that much. not as much as I would like, but probably enough to build it again.

For me, it's just way too expensive to insure a highschooler with anything other than liability, so If I wreck it, I'm screwed. makes you drive carefully. if someone else wrecks it, I get X amount of money, plus money for injuries, TJ's aren't exactly really safe.

Get it appraised when you do large mods, most of the time your insurance will do it for free. then take the money you save from liability and put it in a bank account for when you get wrecked. pretty soon you'll be better off than if you had paid the insurance.

 

[cpwolf]

Liability only, though I don't have too much costly mod's. Same with my show car. completely custom, priceless to me had it appraised, so now if they write it off I get at least that much. not as much as I would like, but probably enough to build it again.

For me, it's just way too expensive to insure a highschooler with anything other than liability, so If I wreck it, I'm screwed. makes you drive carefully. if someone else wrecks it, I get X amount of money, plus money for injuries, TJ's aren't exactly really safe.

Get it appraised when you do large mods, most of the time your insurance will do it for free. then take the money you save from liability and put it in a bank account for when you get wrecked. pretty soon you'll be better off than if you had paid the insurance.

"Self Insured" is the term I use. Liability, and the difference you put into an account and let it grow, keep putting in there, be disciplined.

 

[glowell222]

You ask a very broad question. What exactly are you trying to insure and what are the numbers? What 'multiple costly mods' are causing you concern?

I am almost completely stock. But that isn't really my question. My question is: as our vehicles are aging, is traditional insurance and their traditional value methods the correct way to insure our Jeeps compared to the way those traditional insurance companies value our Jeeps? Or is there a different or better way to get fair coverage for our Jeeps apart from the traditional insurance coverage approach?

My Jeep is DD by my son currently. It's still my Jeep though, as much as he is trying to convince me otherwise. He is listed as one of the drivers on the policy.

 

[egclassic]

I switched all my vehicles to liability only, a few years ago. They are all older, but in great shape, visually and mechanically.
However, the cost difference didn't make sense when the most I'd get if it was totaled was blue book or less. Obviously they are worth more to me than that.

 

[KingCarGuyZ]

I switched all my vehicles to liability only, a few years ago. They are all older, but in great shape, visually and mechanically.
However, the cost difference didn't make sense when the most I'd get if it was totaled was blue book or less. Obviously they are worth more to me than that.

this is the problem, blue book. Sometimes the appraiser will value the car for more, sometimes less. it really sucks to get it appraised at less than blue-book.

 

[cpwolf]

I am almost completely stock. But that isn't really my question. My question is: as our vehicles are aging, is traditional insurance and their traditional value methods the correct way to insure our Jeeps compared to the way those traditional insurance companies value our Jeeps? Or is there a different or better way to get fair coverage for our Jeeps apart from the traditional insurance coverage approach?

My Jeep is DD by my son currently. It's still my Jeep though, as much as he is trying to convince me otherwise. He is listed as one of the drivers on the policy.

LOL, nice. No, I don't know of an alternative way. Literally my plan would be if it is wrecked, to keep it and part it, hopefully the expensive stuff put into it, a good amount can be used to build a stock rebuild

 

[Zorba]

I have liability and comprehensive. Insurance companies LOVE to total cars, so why give them the opportunity?

 

[cpwolf]

I have liability and comprehensive. Insurance companies LOVE to total cars, so why give them the opportunity?

Not sure how having those would discourage them. They are going to do it anyway, my buddy just learned this, ha. 2019 Mustang, 5 airbags, adjuster laughed when he asked if it was totaled "Airbags are about $5K to replace, you had 5 go off, it's totaled"

Comprehensive, they'll total it, and give you what they deep the value, you argue, and they smile and ask if you want the check or not.

 

[Rubicon88]

I switched all my vehicles to liability only, a few years ago. They are all older, but in great shape, visually and mechanically.
However, the cost difference didn't make sense when the most I'd get if it was totaled was blue book or less. Obviously they are worth more to me than that.

Not true... I'll explain in a moment..

 

[sahara2000]

I have full coverage because USAA gives KBB plus 20% extra if the jeep is ever totaled. It's only about $500 a year to insure it that way because of discounts and my driving record. The funniest thing I learned was that Jeeps are classified by the insurance companies as convertibles, so they're pricier to insure.

 

[Zorba]

Not sure how having those would discourage them. They are going to do it anyway, my buddy just learned this, ha. 2019 Mustang, 5 airbags, adjuster laughed when he asked if it was totaled "Airbags are about $5K to replace, you had 5 go off, it's totaled"

Comprehensive, they'll total it, and give you what they deep the value, you argue, and they smile and ask if you want the check or not.

That's what they try to do, BTDT. They start changing their tune when you don't give in. I didn't have to, but the question, "Do I *REALLY* have to get a lawyer involved with this?" can work wonders...

 

[JDS123]

I've been on liability only for about 10 years. Introductory probability explains why. Insurance only exists to reduce variance in life, but it is negative expected value (which is why insurance companies make money). Considering my Jeep is worth so little, it isn't worth the extra money trying to reduce ~$4k of variance.

 

[Rubicon88]

The insurance issue....

The perception is the insurance company screws you out of money. Right?

Wrong.

I did some work for over 300 insurance companies in setting the replacement costs of said vehicles. I didn't use some magical formula.

Insurance replacement costs are based on geographical data within a 100 mile radius.
Example...take all your vehicle comparables being sold at car lots within a 100 mile radius of your address and that's how your value is figured.

Things that get noted when evaluating vehicles...
Aftermarket wheels
Lift kit (yes insurance companies now add money for this)
Hard top (if a jeep)
Winch
Running boards/steps
Retractable running boards
Tow hitch (provided wiring is there)
Fog lights
Aftermarket sound system
Tinted glass
20" or larger wheels (gay on a Jeep but it's noted)

There are many other things but these are the only ones that a motorist could add him or herself to a Jeep.

Trucks....get a spray on bedliner noted, drop in bedliner...in addition to the above


All that information gets put into a big computer along with the dealer's selling price and out comes your replacement value check.

The reason they do these things is it saves them a lot of court cost money in litigation. They've turned over every stone when valuing the unfortunate motorist vehicle that when they cut a check it's extremely generous. Very.

Many years ago that wasn't the case but present day the insurance pay out is extremely fair. Obviously they can't replace your sentimental value but that's just life unfortunately.

P.s.
A lot of people have this perception "their car" is worth more than the ins company will give. Not true whatsoever and a predetermined opinion by the motorist will probably never change about that.

 

[jeepguy03]

I worked in auto insurance previously.

It really depends how much you have invested, but the reality is regardless of what you could sell a TJ for, they aren't worth much to an insurance company. If you total it, they will give you bottom dollar. They don't give a shit how much you've spent on mods or maintenance. They are only willing to give you what the average TJ's value is on the used market. The agent is right because what you pay for full coverage you could just put the difference into savings and likely come out ahead if something ever happened to it. Full coverage is more for vehicles with loans.

You want good liability and uninsured coverages for stuff you can't control (more for the medical side of things). If you really have a ton of money invested in your Jeep, and want to protect what you've invested, your best bet would be to look into classic vehicle insurance.

 

[TJ4Jim]

I ran with just the minimum requirements on the Jeep while in NJ but after relocating out to Oregon the rate change due to the move, being retired and using the Jeep as a secondary vehicle made the full coverage very affordable at below $500 a year with a 1K deductible.

 

[dlm1450]

That's what they try to do, BTDT. They start changing their tune when you don't give in. I didn't have to, but the question, "Do I *REALLY* have to get a lawyer involved with this?" can work wonders...

This is VERY true. I worked alongside claims adjusters for several years and became privy to the inner workings of the industry. First of all, if it's over a certain dollar amount (lets say $30k), they will scrutinize it a lot more. If something seems fishy, they will send it to their special investigative unit and REALLY scrutinize it. That's when they call in accident investigators and analyze the hell out of it. Aside from that, claims adjusters will do what it takes to make you go away. If it's a small claim, they will likely just pay it and move on. If your not happy with your insurance adjuster's decision on your claim, tell them you're consulting with an attorney and they will likely back down. It's all dollars and cents to them. Defending themselves in court cost's money. They know exactly how much it costs for small legal battles (generally around $7,500). If they can make you go away for less than $7,500, they will do what you want.

As far as who decides if it's totaled, you can push back and they may concede. Again, anything they can do to make you go away. However, sometimes you may want to have it totaled and they will decide to repair it. Repairing a car that's "near totaled" will cost you in the long run when you go to sell. Near totaled cars generally have some kind of major issue (like frame damage) and that is easily detected at Carmax or wherever else you go. I've had this happen twice; in two different states. Both scenarios were the same. My wife, caused about $14,000 in damage to two different cars in roughly 2 years. BOTH times she was about $1,000 away from totaling the cars so insurance decided to fix them. BOTH times, the body shop called me back a week after they started repairs to tell me they had to unexpectedly replace a $1,500 wiring harness. BOTH times, I called the claims adjuster and was told it was too late to total the car. BOTH times, when I went to trade-in the car, I was told my vehicle was worth less than half of KBB value because they had frame damage.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

Look into stated value insurance. I was paying $200 a year for stated value on a 1985 Trans Am through Hagerty. Value was $15k. They will fight to make sure the correct parts are used for repairs, had unlimited mileage, and relaxed garage requirements.

 

[glowell222]

Everyone, thanks so far for your input. I figured there was some unspoken approach that was common knowledge of which I wasn't aware. I haven't run any vehicle on liability-only insurance since my first car (a $50 '67 Impala back in '84). I don't relish the idea, particularly here in NOVA where, frankly, all that is required to obtain a driver's license is that you possess a face for the license photo.

@Artsifrtsi I will check with Hagerty on this. Not sure how that will work or even what my stated value should be but I'm sure we can work out some kind of reasonable approach.