Steering wander: Jeep is all over the road

[AndyG]

Be sure your track bar bushings are in great shape.

Bilstein shocks are going to be stiff.. if they sell some that aren't I'm not aware of it. I just gave a practically brand-new set away.

Tires can surprise you. I would think a set of softer shocks and 26-28 psi in the tires works, then dial that play out and you should have it close.

 

[JeremyGetz]

Hey guys I have replaced tie rod ends put new tires on it and tighter my gear box a little bit but the Jeep still wounders on the road any ideas

 

[primetime4]

I just had a Currie steering setup installed. There was really not much change to my steering afterwards but I wasn’t expecting much of a difference either. At the time, the mechanic said my steering box had a lot of play and recommended replacing. I always thought this was normal and was probably just used to it over the 20 years of ownership. I went ahead and ordered a replacement anyway and just had it installed. Man, what a night and day improvement. It tracks straight and return to center is actually a thing again. I think the correctlync may have exposed the worn box a little more so this was definitely a worthily fix.

 

[AndyG]

A few things that may help. There are two steering tests that should be done. One is the dry steering test done with the engine off. A helper sits behind the wheel and turns the steering wheel one direction until there is some resistance, then the other until there is some resistance. Once those two limits are defined, then the steering wheel should be turned RAPIDLY back and forth between those two limits. Get under the front of the rig and look for any movement between connecting components that indicate wear.

A minor correction on the draglink. It should exhibit much rotational play around the long axis. The pin at the right side knuckle exits the body of the TRE that is formed on the end of it through a slot that runs perpendicular to the long axis. That slot limits rotational roll of the drag link.

Once you are done with the dry test, start it and then do the power test. That puts a bit more force on the components and will show things that are worn that the dry test doesn't.

The first thing I would look at is the rod end on the RE trackbar. The rust powder evident in the pics indicates some untoward movement which can mean the end is shot or the bolt is loose.

Someone has swapped on a ZJ tie rod. It may be due to wear, or they were trying to solve the same problem and that didn't do it.

As with all things like this, diagnose first, then replace and repair. Do not just start throwing parts at it until you know which parts are bad.

The shocks look new. The bump stops don't. You would benefit from examining the amount of exposed shock shaft at ride height to see if something is a bit out of whack in that regard.

This is your key post. If you can, follow what Blaine is saying...being able to do a dry test, and making it a habit before you start guessing at stuff, is what pros like Blaine do.

Just like my endodontist ... I wanted relief...he did an ice test...why? He wanted to get the right tooth.

I just had one getting squirrelly, and did a dry test...it showed a track bar was shot at the frame and the drag link end as well.

Installed the 2 new parts and center the wheel a tad and it was driving the best it has since I've owned it.

My goal this year is to really grasp the basics. Nearly every used TJ I've fooled with has revealed something with a dry test.

I had a similar track bar and the nut at the frame was considerably loose, and the heim joint style is sometimes considered less than desirable based on posts I've seen.

 

[AndyG]

Hey guys I have replaced tie rod ends put new tires on it and tighter my gear box a little bit but the Jeep still wounders on the road any ideas

Do the tests Blaine recommends and also check your caster and toe. Also jack up the Jeep and be sure the unit bearings aren't loose up front ...they kill steering when they get bad. Just wiggle the wheels with them off the ground. I had one you couldn't get the same toe setting twice on til I replaced the unit bearings.

Also check your control arm bushings and sway bar bushings and call your mom while you are at it.

 

[Gunnersmate]

So here’s my update so far.. brand new tires made a huge difference, I’d say 70% better driving it home was the first time I could actually use one hand to drive down the highway.
It still was a pretty rough ride but after playing with the tire pressure the most of the stiffness went away, my caster Is at 4.8 degrees with no more adjustment, next step is going to be upper and lower control arms so I can get to that 6-7 degrees. I’m gonna do them myself, since I found a set of Apoc online upper and lower for $299.00 4wp wants $450 just for the uppers unless someone knows something about that brand that I should stay away from??
Not sure about other 4wp stores but the one here in reno, are pretty much salesmen, when I asked about the stiffness of the ride the wanted me to buy new shocks :-/ I tried to explain there brand new bilsten 5100 put on by the p.o they said something like there not set up properly and need the 5125. From what I can find online the 5100 are fine for my ride, unless someone knows something different ?? I’m sticking with them. By the way they almost had every tire at a different psi 50,45,40,40..
It does have a shake but not real noticeable until I’m about 50-55 mph I’m thinking maybe driveline, pinion angle, really not sure does anyone have suggestions?
The steering still feels a bit loose but way better, I’ve been reading and some guys recommend new bushings, I’m all for that but does anyone have a suggestion on which bushings to start replacing or is there a kit of some kind?? All and all I’m pretty happy with the jeep.
Like I said before it’s my first jeep so I really don’t have anything to compare it to, but I think once I finish dialing it all in, I’d feel pretty comfortable driving it down to Baja pulling my jeep trailer🏖
Any thoughts or suggestions, super appreciated.... thanks

Apoc are built Well but when you get ready to do the rears the uppers do not have the tab welded on to re-attach your parking brake cable, check out Rusty's I think his does I just put Apoc on mine and was pissed when I got the rears with out a tab for mounting the Parking Brakes my only Bitch about the APOC, also have you checked your ball joints

 

[Gunnersmate]

Also pay attention to torque spec when installing/ re-installing steering brake and suspension parts

 

[mrblaine]

Apoc are built Well but when you get ready to do the rears the uppers do not have the tab welded on to re-attach your parking brake cable, check out Rusty's I think his does I just put Apoc on mine and was pissed when I got the rears with out a tab for mounting the Parking Brakes my only Bitch about the APOC, also have you checked your ball joints

"Tis but a flesh wound, my kingdom for a zip tie.

 

[Gunnersmate]

"Tis but a flesh wound, my kingdom for a zip tie.

well for 300 bucks you would think they weld a damn tab on it but nooooo I had to grind off the Powder Coat make a tab weld it on and touch it up with a rattle can. I from the school of do it right or don't do it. You can only jump from a plane with a half assed packed chute one time

 

[mrblaine]

well for 300 bucks you would think they weld a damn tab on it but nooooo I had to grind off the Powder Coat make a tab weld it on and touch it up with a rattle can. I from the school of do it right or don't do it. You can only jump from a plane with a half assed packed chute one time

I've installed hundreds of arms without the tab. I've used large zip ties for most of those with exactly zero issue.

 

[Gunnersmate]

I've installed hundreds of arms without the tab. I've used large zip ties for most of those with exactly zero issue.

I agree zip ties will work that is not the point. If the engineers thought zip ties would be ok that is how it would have come from the factory and no matter I still have the Red Ass over this. I am sure you have been though and worked behind many hacks and thought what the hell were they thinking when they did this for repairs and mods

Example: like the Idiot in the P 51 mustang that took out all the spectators in 2011 crashed his plane killed all those on the ground and himself because he reused locknuts

 

[mrblaine]

I agree zip ties will work that is not the point. If the engineers thought zip ties would be ok that is how it would have come from the factory and no matter I still have the Red Ass over this. I am sure you have been though and worked behind many hacks and thought what the hell were they thinking when they did this for repairs and mods

Well, the good news is you'll never have to worry about running Savvy or any other double adjustable control arm, eh?

 

[Gunnersmate]

Done Right what I should have ordered had I known

 

[mrblaine]

Done Right what I should have ordered had I known
View attachment 214975
View attachment 214975

Those are shit arms.

 

[Gunnersmate]

Those are shit arms.

Please enlighten me are the tubing walls to thin or diameter to small

 

[mrblaine]

Please enlighten me are the tubing walls to thin or diameter to small

Don't know or care. What I do care about is the use of a Clevite on one end which should only ever be done with a radius arm front or the stock arms. They are only there to save cost and make a cheaper arm. The other end is a cartridge joint with an adjustable nut washer to pre-load the races. That style of joint is almost never successful long term.

 

[Midtenn]

Those are shit arms.

Are there any value oriented ones you’d suggest or is it stick with stock-type until you need something with strong joints on both ends? From my time here, there’s not really a continuum of value.

 

[mrblaine]

Are there any value oriented ones you’d suggest or is it stick with stock-type until you need something with strong joints on both ends? From my time here, there’s not really a continuum of value.

I don't know. I know there are lots of ways to cut costs. I don't know that any of those that affect the product in a positive way.

 

[Gunnersmate]

Don't know or care. What I do care about is the use of a Clevite on one end which should only ever be done with a radius arm front or the stock arms. They are only there to save cost and make a cheaper arm. The other end is a cartridge joint with an adjustable nut washer to pre-load the races. That style of joint is almost never successful long term.

I learned something to day Sweet Thanks

 

[AndyG]

Done Right what I should have ordered had I known
View attachment 214975
View attachment 214975

What brand are those