Steering Question

[Breto31]

Looking for some insight about some experiences with my steering….. 05 Wrangler X, 4” suspension lift, 33x10.5 BFG AT.

When driving on 2-lane roads around 45-55mph I notice that the jeep really wants to react to the features of the road, I.E. if I go past where a driveway meets the road and the road has a little bump in it, my jeep wants to jump left. Or if I drive over a spot that has a dip in it near the roadside, the jeep wants to dive right. I feel better when using 2 hands while driving on the 2-lane backroads….. I have no issues in flatter, main roads/highway. I can run around town on the 4-5 lane roads and the highway at 70+ and have no issues. Can drive with 1 hand. It really only seems to be on the smaller, less-flat roads…. I have noticed on the main roads that I can let go of the wheel, and it’ll go straight, but if I hit a bump, the wheel doesn’t exactly want to go back to center/straight.

I’ve done MULTIPLE alignments, had my tires balanced twice, and removed the drop Pittman arm. My upgrades/changes are listed below.

EDIT: at my last alignment a few weeks ago, the caster angle was 5 degrees.

• ZJ tie rod upgrade.
• New tie rod ends.
• New upper/lower ball joints.
• Rancho RS5000X shocks.
• New driver side axle shaft/u-joint.
• Core 4x4 T1 adjustable upper/lower CA’s on front.

 

[John Cooper]

Post up a picture of your front end set up. What lift is installed on your Jeep and does it have a dropped pitman arm??

Things we need to see and know to help you out!!

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Post up a picture of your front end set up. What lift is installed on your Jeep and does it have a dropped pitman arm??

Things we need to see and know to help you out!!

Looks like he had and removed the DPA, so the question becomes is there an associated drop bracket on the frame side mount for the track bar. Sometimes those things come in pairs - depending on the lift kit.

OP - pictures will help.

 

[Breto31]

Looks like he had and removed the DPA, so the question becomes is there an associated drop bracket on the frame side mount for the track bar. Sometimes those things come in pairs - depending on the lift kit.

OP - pictures will help.

DPA was removed. I will snag some pics this afternoon. I’m 99.9% certain that there’s nothing funky with the track bar mount. I replaced that when I did the ZJ upgrade and didn’t notice anything weird.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

With the DPA removed, are you absolutely certain there is no aftermarket drop bracket installed at either end of the track bar?

Can you post good sharp close well lit (use a flash) photos of the passenger and driver's side of the track bar?

Also, what air pressure is in your tires?

 

[Breto31]

Here’s a pic I already had on my phone from 3-4 months ago, pre DPA removal. If I need to get some better pics, I can later.

Also, I know the bolt is out on the track bar. I had removed it to check some other things, and took the pic prior to reinstalling.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I can barely see the passenger-side track bar mount, it does appear to be undropped however, but we can't see the driver's side mount at all. Remember to always turn your camera's flash on for such photos. The bright areas from behind and under your Jeep fooled the camera into underexposing the primary area of interest.

 

[Breto31]

I can barely see the passenger-side track bar mount, it does appear to be undropped however, but we can't see the driver's side mount at all. Remember to turn your flash on for such photos, the bright areas from behind and under the Jeep fool the camera into underexposing the area of interest.

I grabbed these of the drivers side when I stopped by the house for lunch. Won’t be able to get the passenger side until this evening.

I don’t believe the pas ever side is dropped, but I’ll get pics anyway.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Perfect, that is the factory non-dropped mount. It appears the passenger-side is not dropped. So it's probably not bump steer that you're experiencing.

Check that your toe-in setting is proper and that your 33" tires are not overinflated. 26 psi is appropriate for a lightly loaded TJ, 28 psi for one loaded with passengers/gear.

 

[Breto31]

Perfect, that is the factory non-dropped mount. It appears the passenger-side is not dropped. So it's probably not bump steer that you're experiencing.

Check that your toe-in setting is proper and that your 33" tires are not overinflated. 26 psi is appropriate for a lightly loaded TJ, 28 psi for one loaded with passengers/gear.

I don’t believe it’s bump steer, either. It feels more like “darting”. It only happens on more unlevel roads, which are usually 2-lane, narrow county roads.

Here’s some pics of the passenger side track bar link. Doesn’t appear to be anything out of the ordinary.

I run my tires around 28-30, but the only passengers I ever have are my wife and 2-year old daughter. I’ll drop them down to 26 and see if that helps any.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Have your toe-in checked too or check and adjust it yourself which is extremely easy to do and get as accurate as an alignment shop can. Really.

Here's how... https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/how-to-align-your-jeep-wrangler-tj.85/

A bad toe-in angle can affect your steering.

 

[pagrey]

Since it seems like you've taken a pretty good look at the front, how's the rear? Might just do a basic inspection of things like the control arms and track bar back there, maybe the wheel bearings too. Just to check it off the list.

I’ve done MULTIPLE alignments

Considering the caps, I'd say you're probably good on that but you never know right?

 

[Hal]

Can you change the variables. Tire pressure, tires.. even borrow a front set from a fellow jeepers, drive test oppicate sides of the road, even change the speed in several runs, like a raddle, you got to start somewhere and the long process of elimination. There's so much going on at once it becomes a mystery.. my 2004 2 door rubicon has so many characteristics, but one by one, I usually find it.. I have even had it road tested by another driver to get perspective.
Every thing I add to the jeep, I probably had to add or subtract components to gain $atisfaction. Lucky sounds can be fixed by going very fast if having my wife turn up the radio..

 

[Tim_with_the_tj]

Looking for some insight about some experiences with my steering….. 05 Wrangler X, 4” suspension lift, 33x10.5 BFG AT.

When driving on 2-lane roads around 45-55mph I notice that the jeep really wants to react to the features of the road, I.E. if I go past where a driveway meets the road and the road has a little bump in it, my jeep wants to jump left. Or if I drive over a spot that has a dip in it near the roadside, the jeep wants to dive right. I feel better when using 2 hands while driving on the 2-lane backroads….. I have no issues in flatter, main roads/highway. I can run around town on the 4-5 lane roads and the highway at 70+ and have no issues. Can drive with 1 hand. It really only seems to be on the smaller, less-flat roads…. I have noticed on the main roads that I can let go of the wheel, and it’ll go straight, but if I hit a bump, the wheel doesn’t exactly want to go back to center/straight.

I’ve done MULTIPLE alignments, had my tires balanced twice, and removed the drop Pittman arm. My upgrades/changes are listed below.

EDIT: at my last alignment a few weeks ago, the caster angle was 5 degrees.

• ZJ tie rod upgrade.
• New tie rod ends.
• New upper/lower ball joints.
• Rancho RS5000X shocks.
• New driver side axle shaft/u-joint.
• Core 4x4 T1 adjustable upper/lower CA’s on front.

If you really struggle to figure out what's causing it, try rotating the position of all your tires... see if it changes anything. I've had similar steering issues that were caused by one tire from a brand new set being out-of-round. It took me several visits asking them to rebalance it before they told me one tire was out-of-spec and would be replaced. The third time I had them rebalanced was when they finally spoke up.

I noticed on your list it does not say "new" beside Rancho shocks. Are you confident those shocks are still good? Worn out shocks can cause vehicle handling issues especially in something as short-wheelbase as our Jeeps.

Other than those things and what you've already done, I would look into the health of your steering box....but my money is on it being a tire (or multiple tires).

 

[Tim_with_the_tj]

Forgot to ask... when did you first notice this problem? Think about what else might have been changed around that time.

 

[Breto31]

Forgot to ask... when did you first notice this problem? Think about what else might have been changed around that time.

It’s been basically since I’ve had it. That’s part of the reason for the upgrades. I mean, it’s not so bad that I feel unsafe. Just enough to notice it. I’m going to try airing down the tires some more and see if that helps any. I’ve had other people drive it and they say it “drives great compared to mine” so I guess it’s not all that bad.

 

[Tim_with_the_tj]

It’s been basically since I’ve had it. That’s part of the reason for the upgrades. I mean, it’s not so bad that I feel unsafe. Just enough to notice it. I’m going to try airing down the tires some more and see if that helps any. I’ve had other people drive it and they say it “drives great compared to mine” so I guess it’s not all that bad.

Oh jeez. Lol. Those comments from other people must make you feel so encouraged.

 

[Breto31]

Oh jeez. Lol. Those comments from other people must make you feel so encouraged.

For sure. Mine really does drive well, overall. I just want it to drive like my F150.

 

[Tim_with_the_tj]

For sure. Mine really does drive well, overall. I just want it to drive like my F150.

Your expectations for that might be a little too high, BUT that doesn’t mean you can’t improve the Jeep. I had a 2018 F150 myself and I don’t think my TJ would ever ride that good simply because of the wheelbase difference. I’m interested to see what your results are from changing tire pressure. Just go ahead and swap those wheels/tires to opposite corners and see what happens. But whatever you do, only change one thing at a time.

 

[AndyG]

Here’s a pic I already had on my phone from 3-4 months ago, pre DPA removal. If I need to get some better pics, I can later.

Also, I know the bolt is out on the track bar. I had removed it to check some other things, and took the pic prior to reinstalling. View attachment 274017

Check the upper control arm bushing on back of the diff, it appears cocked/unseated- you don’t want any excess axle movement.