Replacement Fenders

UKTJ

UKTJ

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I've read a few threads on here about replacement (tube) fenders. I have seen it said that unless they are highlines they give no additional clearance. This confuses me, because at least three manufacturers claim they do.

Poison Spyder have this graphic showing more clearance above and behind the wheel for the DeFender fender (not highline which the DeFender XC)...
Poison Spyder Fenders.png


Metal Cloak show the following on their website, it shows 5.1" additional clearance above and 6.1" behind the tyre versus the stock fender. Interesting they say that is 2.6" above and 5" behind versus a typical tube fender, which implies Metal Cloak thinks that a typical tube fender gives about 2.5" above and 1.5" behind the tyre versus a stock fender...
Metal Cloak Fenders.png


No graphics from GenRight, but on their website they reference a number of features about their tube fenders, including "Larger wheel opening to better clear bigger tires"

My question is therefore a simple one, does replacing stock fenders, but not going to highlines, improve tyre clearance? Thnaks in advance for any thoughts.
 
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Indulge me @jjvw, in the recent 4” thread you said…

“Keep your factory flares. They don't limit clearance. And it takes some effort to get to the point where sheet metal gets in the way.”

Exactly the type of comment I was thinking of when I started this thread. Several manufacturers are claiming something different, are Poison Spyder, MetalCloak and GenRight making claims that are deceitful? 🤔

Not trying to start any conflict, a genuine question as I can’t reconcile this.
 
i love how PS outlines what would be the plastic bits for stock fenders.
not a lie, just not a comparison of metal vs metal either.
 
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UKTJ said:
Indulge me @jjvw, in the recent 4” thread you said…

“Keep your factory flares. They don't limit clearance. And it takes some effort to get to the point where sheet metal gets in the way.”

Exactly the type of comment I was thinking of when I started this thread. Several manufacturers are claiming something different, are Poison Spyder, MetalCloak and GenRight making claims that are deceitful? 🤔

Not trying to start any conflict, a genuine question as I can’t reconcile this.
Click to expand...
Flare vs fender. Two different things. The flares bend and move when the tire hits them. Sheet metal does not.

Metalcloak is being deceitful when they include the flexible factory flare as part of their supposed clearance gains.
 
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UKTJ said:
My question is therefore a simple one, does replacing stock fenders, but not going to highlines, improve tyre clearance? Thnaks in advance for any thoughts.
Click to expand...
The answer to your question is a question.

If you can run a 35" tire on a TJ, set up correctly, with stock fenders and flares, why is the extra clearance needed? It only becomes and issue when you start pushing past 10" travel shocks. Even then it can work, but takes some effort and expertise. As an example, take a look at @Midnight LJR build. Stock fenders and flares, and everything clears nicely.

Where the fender clearance issues really surface is when you jump to 37" tires. That is a different story though! To be fair, some folks replace factory fenders and flares with 35" tires, but it is for reasons other than clearance.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/midnight-ljr-build.22795/
 
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someguysjeep said:
i love how PS outlines what would be the plastic bits for stock fenders.
not a lie, just not a comparison of metal vs metal either.
Click to expand...

jjvw said:
Flare vs fender. Two different things. The flares bend and move when the tire hits them. Sheet metal does not.

Metalcloak is being deceitful when they include the flexible factory flare as part of their supposed clearance gains.
Click to expand...
Yes, the distinction between fender and flare is a good point, but it doesn't seem completely binary to me. My stock flares do flex when I grab hold of them, but I am a bit sceptical that they could be pushed completely horizontal without being damaged. Also, the stock flares are attached to the fender in the vertical plane, ie there are downward projecting 'tabs' on the fenders that accomodate the fixings for the flares. As far as I can tell, typical tube fenders (even where a custom inner fender is not used) attach to the stock outer fender in the horizontal plane, with the fixings concealed by the hood when it is closed; the stock fender is trimmed and those vertical 'tabs' are trimmed away with much of the visible part of the stock outer fender.

My sense would be that the gain in clearance is not going to be as much as maybe manufacturers claim if they reference the stock fender without it flxing upwards, but I still think there may be some additional clearance by removing the stock fenders (including the 'tabs') and the stock flares.

Having recently re-read @Neal's build thread he managed to get 35" tyres with no lift with the Metal Cloak fenders. I know he had a bit of rubbing and later went with an OME 2.5" lift, but without the change in fenders from what I read otherwise he would have been looking at a 4" suspension lift and probably a 1" body lift as well to accomodate 35" tyres. So the Metal Cloak's gain may be exagerated by referencing the stock fender flare, but even so there must be at least a couple of inches of extra clearance being achieved to accomodate the 35" tyres.

Or am I (as is sadly often the case) missing something obvious?
 
If you believe MC's claims, you could fit 37s with a BB. :rolleyes: Fitting tires and being able to use the Jeep afterwards, can be two different things.
Jeep 37s no lift.jpg
 
Irun said:
The answer to your question is a question.

If you can run a 35" tire on a TJ, set up correctly, with stock fenders and flares, why is the extra clearance needed? It only becomes and issue when you start pushing past 10" travel shocks. Even then it can work, but takes some effort and expertise. As an example, take a look at @Midnight LJR build. Stock fenders and flares, and everything clears nicely.

Where the fender clearance issues really surface is when you jump to 37" tires. That is a different story though! To be fair, some folks replace factory fenders and flares with 35" tires, but it is for reasons other than clearance.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/midnight-ljr-build.22795/
Click to expand...
That is indeed a pretty impressive looking build! I have not read the whole thread yet, but the fact it took me about 10 minutes to read through the list of mods on @Midnight LJR's profile says a lot :ROFLMAO:

In terms of the why, I guess there are two thoughts in my mind.

First, I have a 1"MORE body lift and plan to install a 2.5" OME suspension lift. I can't be sure exactly what extra clearance the suspension lift will yield, but I read on hear you really need to be getting close to 4" of total lift for 33" tyres. With the 1" body lift (versus the 1.25" Savvy lift many here install) and 2.5" from the OME springs I may come up a little short. In that case, if cheapish tube fenders give me even 1/2" it could make the 33" tyres clear.

Second, I like the idea of having options. If I were to decide I wanted to go up to 35" tyres I could go with a bigger suspension lift, etc. But it would seem another option is to keep the OME lift and gain extra clearance with a change to the fenders, such as the Metal Cloaks. At one point I did think that might be a more economic option than the full 4" suspension lift with new control arms, SYE, new DC, etc., but actually the cost of good replacement fenders looks pretty close from what I can tell, so maybe it is not a cost saver.

IIRC the LJ you recently sold had the arched Metal Cloak fenders on it (I know it is not a majority view, but I happen to think they look really good and your LJ looked fantastic), if not for clearance why did you install them?
 
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UKTJ said:
Yes, the distinction between fender and flare is a good point, but it doesn't seem completely binary to me. My stock flares do flex when I grab hold of them, but I am a bit sceptical that they could be pushed completely horizontal without being damaged. Also, the stock flares are attached to the fender in the vertical plane, ie there are downward projecting 'tabs' on the fenders that accomodate the fixings for the flares. As far as I can tell, typical tube fenders (even where a custom inner fender is not used) attach to the stock outer fender in the horizontal plane, with the fixings concealed by the hood when it is closed; the stock fender is trimmed and those vertical 'tabs' are trimmed away with much of the visible part of the stock outer fender.

My sense would be that the gain in clearance is not going to be as much as maybe manufacturers claim if they reference the stock fender without it flxing upwards, but I still think there may be some additional clearance by removing the stock fenders (including the 'tabs') and the stock flares.

Having recently re-read @Neal's build thread he managed to get 35" tyres with no lift with the Metal Cloak fenders. I know he had a bit of rubbing and later went with an OME 2.5" lift, but without the change in fenders from what I read otherwise he would have been looking at a 4" suspension lift and probably a 1" body lift as well to accomodate 35" tyres. So the Metal Cloak's gain may be exagerated by referencing the stock fender flare, but even so there must be at least a couple of inches of extra clearance being achieved to accomodate the 35" tyres.

Or am I (as is sadly often the case) missing something obvious?
Click to expand...
The way mine was built for a long time, I had no trouble bringing the front tires into the the lip of the factory outer fender sheet metal. The flare had no problem getting out of the way.
 
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TheBoogieman said:
If you believe MC's claims, you could fit 37s with a BB. :rolleyes: Fitting tires and being able to use the Jeep afterwards, can be two different things.
View attachment 287223
Click to expand...
They don't look like Metal Cloaks to me :ROFLMAO:

I think we have already established that the marketting claims are let's say, pushing the limits. But I do not think they are a complete lie, this member here seems happy running 35" tyres with a 2.5" lift and the Metal Cloaks...
126_zpsxhdzitnz-jpg.jpg
 
jjvw said:
The way mine was built for a long time, I had no trouble bringing the front tires into the the lip of the factory outer fender sheet metal. The flare had no problem getting out of the way.
Click to expand...
OK, so maybe I am too pessimistic in how far the flare will flex without breaking. But when you say the sheet metal do you mean those downward tabs that hold the flare? They are about 1 1/2" below the horizonal part of the fender that you see from the top.
 
UKTJ said:
.... But when you say the sheet metal do you mean those downward tabs that hold the flare? They are about 1 1/2" below the horizonal part of the fender that you see from the top.
Click to expand...
Correct. Where the body is concerned, that is the limit to up travel.
 
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UKTJ said:
They don't look like Metal Cloaks to me :ROFLMAO:

I think we have already established that the marketting claims are let's say, pushing the limits. But I do not think they are a complete lie, this member here seems happy running 35" tyres with a 2.5" lift and the Metal Cloaks...
View attachment 287224
Click to expand...
To each their own. This one is running 42s.
Jeep 42s (2).jpg
 
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UKTJ said:
They don't look like Metal Cloaks to me :ROFLMAO:

I think we have already established that the marketting claims are let's say, pushing the limits. But I do not think they are a complete lie, this member here seems happy running 35" tyres with a 2.5" lift and the Metal Cloaks...
View attachment 287224
Click to expand...
Look at the pictures and think about where the hood line is. Metalcloak does not change that. They give a small improvement that is similar to chopping the outer fender off at the hood. And they slightly improve the clearance at the rear wall of the inner fender. This adds up to about an inch, if you make the effort to use it. Most don't.
 
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I run 33” tall tires with Metalcloak Overline fenders and a 4” Metalcloak flare. I have zero suspension lift, a Savvy 1.25” body lift and a SwayLoc. I have an abundance of room for my set up…

I came from 31×10.5” tires, stock fenders/flares and a stock front sway bar without disconnects. I was chewing up my front flares…
 
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sycboi said:
I run 33” tall tires with Metalcloak Overline fenders and a 4” Metalcloak flare. I have zero suspension lift, a Savvy 1.25” body lift and a SwayLoc. I have an abundance of room for my set up…

I came from 31×10.5” tires and stock fenders/flares. I was chewing up my front flares…
Click to expand...
Define abundance.
 
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jjvw said:
Correct. Where the body is concerned, that is the limit to up travel.
Click to expand...
jjvw said:
Look at the pictures and think about where the hood line is. Metalcloak does not change that. They give a small improvement that is similar to chopping the outer fender off at the hood. And they slightly improve the clearance at the rear wall of the inner fender. This adds up to about an inch, if you make the effort to use it. Most don't.
Click to expand...
As ever most helpful, that makes things clear. Many thanks.
 
jjvw said:
Define abundance.
Click to expand...
Abundance meaning I do not have contact anywhere by the time I hit/compress my jounce bumpers. Granted I do not ramp my suspension and land while turning the wheel all the way one way or the other. Maybe that would make a difference that I am not seeing…

The only contact I have is the very corner of the tire will rub the SwayLoc during a flexy left turn. It hits the bracket that slides fore and aft on the outside of the passenger side arm…

*I edited my earlier post to reflect the fact that I had a stock sway bar without disconnects…
 
UKTJ said:
My stock flares do flex when I grab hold of them, but I am a bit sceptical that they could be pushed completely horizontal without being damaged.
Click to expand...

The tire tucks behind the flare, it doesn't bash into it. Unless you have wide tires and low backspacing maybe.

IMG_0273.JPEG

IMG_0274.JPEG


UKTJ said:
downward projecting 'tabs' on the fenders that accomodate the fixings for the flares.
Click to expand...
which conveniently have a tire-shaped cut out like the fenders in just the right spot so that they do not interfere with the tires.
 
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