15x7 wheels for DIY beadlocks?

[Brian83]

are those wheels going to have enough backspacing to be worth doing? I wouldnt think so.

 

[someguysjeep]

plz elaborate on your thinking Brian83.
we'd require the same backspace as anyone else for a similar sized wheel, the bead-lock will not change the interior fit. it will force the outer bead to sit further out but this will still be within the wheels tread width.

if anything, i think those donor rims have a fairly large face right below the rim. and that could hinder the depth he's able to set the ring. he'll have to check that.

 

[Brian83]

plz elaborate on your thinking Brian83.
we'd require the same backspace as anyone else for a similar sized wheel, the bead-lock will not change the interior fit. it will force the outer bead to sit further out but this will still be within the wheels tread width.

if anything, i think those donor rims have a fairly large face right below the rim. and that could hinder the depth he's able to set the ring. he'll have to check that.

If those are factory wheels which they look like they are then then backspacing isnt enough to run a 12.5 tire without a spacer. Why not just buy a set of procomp steel wheels the correct backspacing and then do the DIY beadlock

 

[mrblaine]

i run robotic welders at work i'm gonna program and run mine on 1 of them. so my weld should be a beautiful thing.
i'm also not confident in any protrusion of the rims edge and believe a nice flat would give a better seal.
pulling them up seems like it leaves the edge of the ring to be welded to the lip of the rim, not the strongest connection, i think we could have.
so i'm also leaning toward a flush fit. but this is not something easily undone or changed once it's burned so i had to ask.

The reason there are so many different versions of why to do it a certain way is they all work. What is being overlooked is the clamping force of the ring and the butyl liner of the tire. The force will deform the tire into any imperfections, raised or lowered areas and create the air tight seal.

I would not weld the nuts to the inside of the ring. If you have a bolt back out and snap it off on a rock which tears up the threads in the nut, you are drilling and tapping it larger or trying to figure out how to sneak a cut off disc in there and get the nut cut loose.

I would just use nuts or press in threaded inserts.

That and you couldn't give me a bead lock without a bead centering ring. If someone makes a weld on ring with a centering ring, use those. Trying to center the bead by how you tighten the lock ring down is a real pain in the ass. Without the bead centered, whatever chance you had of a smooth running tire is out the window.

 

[someguysjeep]

The reason there are so many different versions of why to do it a certain way is they all work. What is being overlooked is the clamping force of the ring and the butyl liner of the tire. The force will deform the tire into any imperfections, raised or lowered areas and create the air tight seal.

I would not weld the nuts to the inside of the ring. If you have a bolt back out and snap it off on a rock which tears up the threads in the nut, you are drilling and tapping it larger or trying to figure out how to sneak a cut off disc in there and get the nut cut loose.

I would just use nuts or press in threaded inserts.

That and you couldn't give me a bead lock without a bead centering ring. If someone makes a weld on ring with a centering ring, use those. Trying to center the bead by how you tighten the lock ring down is a real pain in the ass. Without the bead centered, whatever chance you had of a smooth running tire is out the window.

yah it dawned on me about 20mins after i posted, i ruin just 1 nut and it'll be a major headache to replace and the wheel will probably leak until it's fixed correctly. so i doubt i'll go that route.

i have access to UHMW, i was thinking of making rings from this that would act as my anti cone ring. and if i could mount it over the bolts i'd then have a guide or centering ring to hold that tire uniformly around that circle.
i may have to play with the thickness of the material to ensure i get a solid clamp but it was an idea i've been tossin around in my head.

 

[mrblaine]

yah it dawned on me about 20mins after i posted, i ruin just 1 nut and it'll be a major headache to replace and the wheel will probably leak until it's fixed correctly. so i doubt i'll go that route.

i have access to UHMW, i was thinking of making rings from this that would act as my anti cone ring. and if i could mount it over the bolts i'd then have a guide or centering ring to hold that tire uniformly around that circle.
i may have to play with the thickness of the material to ensure i get a solid clamp but it was an idea i've been tossin around in my head.

You'd have to machine the UHMW around the perimeter and drill the matching holes to the bolts before milling out the center. Or at least that is how I would do it. Good stuff for lots of things but it moves around a bunch in thinner cross sections.
The biggest issue is all tire beads are not uniform in thickness. I'd consider a thinner centering ring out of the UHMW, bolt that up with countersunk fasteners clocked between the lock ring holes at every other lock ring hole space. That way you could add some spacers to stop the crowning for any thickness bead. Ideally, you want the centering ring thickness to be the squished height of the bead when the lock ring bottoms out flat. That is the only way to get the correct torque on the bolts. The ring has to make contact with the rim and then the bolt will come up to the torque spec. You don't want a gap in there. The bolt torque is inconsistent and since each bolt has to do exactly its share of the job, you don't want them over and under torqued.

We have installed many bead lock rings. They will come up to the torque value when you start squishing the bead. That is until you tighten the one next to it. Then the two on either side are lower. It isn't until we get the lock ring to make contact with the rim that the problem stops and we get even torque all the way around.

This is one of those things that it all looks basic until you start understanding how it works. Lots of folks out there are making bead locks (not DIY) that don't understand how it works. Oh hey look, just make a ring and put some holes in it for bolts. Yeah, not quite that simple.

If you know who Phil Howell is, he almost lost both arms below the elbows. He was torqueing down bead lock bolts on a tire that was aired up. What he missed is the bolts were slightly too long and as he was torqueing them they were making contact with the rim which jacked the lock ring and bolt thread section right off the rim with a lot of force which hit him across both forearms.

Stuff like that is also why some companies no longer make bead locks or they limit them to what should be the equivalent of a C load rating. The lower load rating use lower air pressure which limits the force the tire bead exerts against the lock ring bolts. E load range tires go up to 80 psi and that gets crazy with the amount of force it takes to hold the bead on. This isn't something you want to work most of the time, it has to work every time and the guys that overload their tow rigs with the big ass toy haulers on SRW 1 tons are not a place for bead locks.

 

[someguysjeep]

i get yah.

i'm stuck at a 17" wheel for the 1 ton JK steering components, but have no desire to use an E class tire.
the MTR is a C in 35x17x12.5 and i think Nitto has 1, choices are slim. but C is it, no D's, no E's.

i have other options. i could laser another steel ring to use as my anti-cone/centering device. i could roll and weld something on there. but the UHMW is so light and easy to work, it seems like a possible option. i would do some fit test's to determine what might be the proper thickness to be able to clamp well and reach the torque value required.
i like that thought of securing the device between the clamp bolts, and i'll steal that.

my rig is destined for a trailer. i cannot risk having to leave it in the field (2hrs away) if i'm unable to drive it home, so she'll get towed out to ensure i can get her home no matter what occurs. this is what even made the idea of the bead-locks viable to me, no highway, not a huge balancing issue for low speed off road use. and 1 less bead to bust for field fixes.

i do appreciate you taking your time to lay out a proper explanation. thanx again.

 

[mrblaine]

i get yah.

i'm stuck at a 17" wheel for the 1 ton JK steering components, but have no desire to use an E class tire.
the MTR is a C in 35x17x12.5 and i think Nitto has 1, choices are slim. but C is it, no D's, no E's.

i have other options. i could laser another steel ring to use as my anti-cone/centering device. i could roll and weld something on there. but the UHMW is so light and easy to work, it seems like a possible option. i would do some fit test's to determine what might be the proper thickness to be able to clamp well and reach the torque value required.
i like that thought of securing the device between the clamp bolts, and i'll steal that.

my rig is destined for a trailer. i cannot risk having to leave it in the field (2hrs away) if i'm unable to drive it home, so she'll get towed out to ensure i can get her home no matter what occurs. this is what even made the idea of the bead-locks viable to me, no highway, not a huge balancing issue for low speed off road use. and 1 less bead to bust for field fixes.

i do appreciate you taking your time to lay out a proper explanation. thanx again.

I'm not opposed to the UHMW at all. I just wanted you to be aware of the machining challenges with something that needs to center the tire bead. If and that's a big if, I were to attempt DIY bead locks, I'd look at the UHMW.