33" vs 31" Tires

[Kyle_W]

This is not a question about "How can I run 33" tires without doing any mods?!", but this is a question about how much more stress do 33" tires put onto your steering components?

I only am wondering because very soon I am going to put a Dana 30HP under my Jeep, and completely rebuild it (new ball joints and everything). However, I have never seen a conversation about "ball joint longevity with big tires" to give me more information on this question that I am asking.

I don't want to put a lot of money into this new axle if 33" tires just are too much for the stock steering setup (and therefore, should drop to 31" tires and swap out my steel wheels for aluminum's).

Thoughts?

Thank you!

 

[Chris]

Well, answer me this:

1) How much off-road time do you think it will see (percentage wise)?
2) Are you going to be doing mostly mud, small rocks, or are you going to be doing serious bashing in the big rocks?

If you use the factory Spicer ball joints I would say that tire size isn't going to be as much of a factor as oppose to how you drive it. If you drive like a maniac and you're bashing the rocks like crazy, then you're going to wear them out fast.

I have 33" tires and do about 10% off-road time. I mostly do mud, overland, and some light rock crawling (nothing even close to what Jerry and Blaine do). My ball joints show no signs of symptoms of wear whatsoever.

 

[Kyle_W]

Well, answer me this:

1) How much off-road time do you think it will see (percentage wise)?
2) Are you going to be doing mostly mud, small rocks, or are you going to be doing serious bashing in the big rocks?

If you use the factory Spicer ball joints I would say that tire size isn't going to be as much of a factor as oppose to how you drive it. If you drive like a maniac and you're bashing the rocks like crazy, then you're going to wear them out fast.

I have 33" tires and do about 10% off-road time. I mostly do mud, overland, and some light rock crawling (nothing even close to what Jerry and Blaine do). My ball joints show no signs of symptoms of wear whatsoever.

Ok, thank you for the response!

To answer 1) and 2): I drive just like how you drive. I off-road it sometimes; on trails and some rocks, but nothing near MOAB level. And I mainly drive on the highway.

And yes that makes sense: how you drive it really affects the wear and tear (stop and go and swerving all over the place).

I guess I don't know what to expect out of ball joints, since my Jeep has 100k miles on it and I just started to notice slop in the wheel - so I didn't know if that was from length of use or if my tires were the culprit.

 

[Chris]

If you're driving your Jeep like I drive mine (which it sounds like you are), don't even worry about the ball joints, seriously.

You'll get 100k out of them I suspect, even with 33" tires (which I have).

While I doubt there's anyone out there who can tell us with certainty how much longer a ball joint would last with a 31" tire versus a 33", I can tell you that it's probably negligible at best... Or at least something not even worth worrying about.

100k miles is about when you should start thinking about replacing your ball joints anyways. That being said, do yourself a favor and replace them with the best ones you can get: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UTD76GY/?tag=wranglerorg-20

Don't be one of the guys who gets the Synergy ball joints assuming they're an upgrade (when they're really quite the opposite).

 

[Kyle_W]

If you're driving your Jeep like I drive mine (which it sounds like you are), don't even worry about the ball joints, seriously.

You'll get 100k out of them I suspect, even with 33" tires (which I have).

While I doubt there's anyone out there who can tell us with certainty how much longer a ball joint would last with a 31" tire versus a 33", I can tell you that it's probably negligible at best... Or at least something not even worth worrying about.

100k miles is about when you should start thinking about replacing your ball joints anyways. That being said, do yourself a favor and replace them with the best ones you can get: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UTD76GY/?tag=wranglerorg-20

Don't be one of the guys who gets the Synergy ball joints assuming they're an upgrade (when they're really quite the opposite).

Ok I shall not worry about it! Thank you.

Thank you very much for that link! I literally was about to ask for recommendations for ball joint replacement anyway; I didn't know that a kit like that existed.

The "replacement components" list includes:
-Front ball joint kit
-New drag link, and new drag link end connector/ball joint? I would rather replace it just to be comprehensive about this.
-XJ tie rod, and tie rod end/ball joint
-New control arm bushings (rubber)
-Inner axle seals

I have never torn apart an axle before - so I am extremely excited - I also have no idea what I should replace in terms of the axle's inner workings. I have read about replacing your unit bearings, axle seals, and clevite bushing.

 

[Chris]

Solid axles are a walk in the park to work on, seriously. It doesn't get any more simple than the axles on our TJ pretty much!

 

[Kyle_W]

Solid axles are a walk in the park to work on, seriously. It doesn't get any more simple than the axles on our TJ pretty much!

It seriously does seem to be really simple.

So far, my research has given me this list as to what I need to buy for this project:

• 3.73 No-ABS Dana 30HP off 1996 - 1999 Cherokee.
• New Spicer ball joint kit
• New Timken unit bearings?
• Replace clevite bushing?
• New drag link and end link/ball joint?
• Dana 30 differential gasket
• Poison Spyder or T&J differential cover
• Aussie Dana 30 lunch box locker
• Front control arm bushing kit

 

[Chris]

Sounds like a good list so far!

Here's a good write-up on the ball joint replacement as well:
How to replace the ball joints on a Jeep Wrangler TJ

 

[Kyle_W]

Sounds like a good list so far!

Here's a good write-up on the ball joint replacement as well:
How to replace the ball joints on a Jeep Wrangler TJ

Sweet! Thank you!

 

[Kyle_W]

I didn't know you had to take out your carrier to be able to get your old axle seals out; I do not have a backlash tool to record my backlash in my differential nor am I necessarily comfortable messing with my axle differential gears.

However, the job looks pretty easy to do if I get a backlash tool and am careful?

More questions:

1) I am confused as to what a clevite bushing is? Is it just a control arm bushing?

2) I really don't think that I need to replace my unit bearings. It seems pretty easy to do later down the road when I have more money to spend? And I can do my front and rear axle unit bearings at the same time.

3) Other than putting a straight edge against the Dana 30HP that I am looking at, do you have any ideas of how to tell if the thing is really straight before I buy it?

 

[Chris]

I didn't know you had to take out your carrier to be able to get your old axle seals out; I do not have a backlash tool to record my backlash in my differential nor am I necessarily comfortable messing with my axle differential gears.

However, the job looks pretty easy to do if I get a backlash tool and am careful?

I can't answer this one with certainty. I grew up rebuilding engines with my dad, but the one thing I never learned to do is gears. Could I learn how to do it? Sure, of course I could. I just always left that to someone else since I was too lazy to figure it all out. I know that @Stinger does is own gears, so perhaps he can chime in.

Also - I am confused as to what a clevite bushing is? Is it just a control arm bushing?

Yep. The factory control arms use clevite type bushings.

 

[Kyle_W]

I can't answer this one with certainty. I grew up rebuilding engines with my dad, but the one thing I never learned to do is gears. Could I learn how to do it? Sure, of course I could. I just always left that to someone else since I was too lazy to figure it all out. I know that @Stinger does is own gears, so perhaps he can chime in.



Yep. The factory control arms use clevite type bushings.

Ok thanks! I can do it. I just always was told that you NEVER want to mess with your own diff gears.

And gosh damn it, I thought it was like a special bearing in your axle... -_____- well this is how you learn things!

 

[Stinger]

I can't answer this one with certainty. I grew up rebuilding engines with my dad, but the one thing I never learned to do is gears. Could I learn how to do it? Sure, of course I could. I just always left that to someone else since I was too lazy to figure it all out. I know that @Stinger does is own gears, so perhaps he can chime in.



Yep. The factory control arms use clevite type bushings.

Gears. Ya I have done my own. I read everything I could find about the subject. I got several of the special tools. Micrometers, dial gauges, made my own mock up bearings and spent a tremendous amount of time making sure I got the pattern just right. Saved a ton of money. But in the long run, because I don't (and won't) do this very often it just wasn't worth my time. I spent MANY hours getting the set up correct. Would the next one be easier? Sure. But I would not do,it often enough to become proficient at it and my time is precious!

 

[Rob5589]

Backlash won't change by just pulling the carrier and replacing the seals. Make sure to keep the carrier bearing caps on the correct sides and orientation. Best to mark them before removing. Pull the carrier, replace the seals, make sure to grease the seal and clean the axle surface with some fine emory cloth/sandpaper, replace carrier, torque cap bolts. I cannot recall the tq setting, you'll have to look that up. Button it all up and don't forget the oil. Sounds goofy but I have seen it several times, DOH!

 

[Kyle_W]

Backlash won't change by just pulling the carrier and replacing the seals. Make sure to keep the carrier bearing caps on the correct sides and orientation. Best to mark them before removing. Pull the carrier, replace the seals, make sure to grease the seal and clean the axle surface with some fine emory cloth/sandpaper, replace carrier, torque cap bolts. I cannot recall the tq setting, you'll have to look that up. Button it all up and don't forget the oil. Sounds goofy but I have seen it several times, DOH!

I was wondering if taking out JUST your carrier would mess with any tolerances - I couldn't imagine that it would.

And I believe they already are marked with engravings on each cap? But yes sir, will do!

1) What would you grease the seals with? Just a run of the mill hydraulic/automotive grease?

2) I was curious too as to what to clean the guts of the axle with. You are suggesting fine sand cloth. Should I also use brake cleaner inside and out of the whole axle? Let it evaporate, then button everything up?

Thank you for yall's time!

 

[Stinger]

I was wondering if taking out JUST your carrier would mess with any tolerances - I couldn't imagine that it would.

And I believe they already are marked with engravings on each cap? But yes sir, will do!

1) What would you grease the seals with? Just a run of the mill hydraulic/automotive grease?

2) I was curious too as to what to clean the guts of the axle with. You are suggesting fine sand cloth. Should I also use brake cleaner inside and out of the whole axle? Let it evaporate, then button everything up?

Thank you for yall's time!

I have used brake cleaner with good results.
Be very careful pulling the carrier out. Those pesky shims have a habit of getting mixed up. Don't ask !

 

[Kyle_W]

I have used brake cleaner with good results.
Be very careful pulling the carrier out. Those pesky shims have a habit of getting mixed up. Don't ask !

Haha as soon as you take the carrier out, they fall out, land on the ground, and immediately are un-differentiated? [emoji23]

 

[Rob5589]

I was wondering if taking out JUST your carrier would mess with any tolerances - I couldn't imagine that it would.

And I believe they already are marked with engravings on each cap? But yes sir, will do!

1) What would you grease the seals with? Just a run of the mill hydraulic/automotive grease?

2) I was curious too as to what to clean the guts of the axle with. You are suggesting fine sand cloth. Should I also use brake cleaner inside and out of the whole axle? Let it evaporate, then button everything up?

Thank you for yall's time!

The caps aren't generally marked orientation wise. Any automotive grease works fine. You want to just clean up the seal contact area on the axle so any fine cloth/sandpaper/scotchbrite will work. Hosing it out with brake cleaner works great, it is pretty much all we used in the shop. The shims are behind the carrier bearings which are pressed on.

 

[Kyle_W]

The caps aren't generally marked orientation wise. Any automotive grease works fine. You want to just clean up the seal contact area on the axle so any fine cloth/sandpaper/scotchbrite will work. Hosing it out with brake cleaner works great, it is pretty much all we used in the shop. The shims are behind the carrier bearings which are pressed on.

Ok thank you very much!!

 

[Stinger]

The caps aren't generally marked orientation wise. Any automotive grease works fine. You want to just clean up the seal contact area on the axle so any fine cloth/sandpaper/scotchbrite will work. Hosing it out with brake cleaner works great, it is pretty much all we used in the shop. The shims are behind the carrier bearings which are pressed on.

I use a center punch. One punch in the cap and and one just opposite in the case for the left. And two each for the right.
You could do it the other way around I suppose. :SimpHomer: