42RLE transmission toast after major leak (need advice)

[mako_Five.56]

Hello to my fellow Jeepers!

I have a 2005 stock Rubicon auto with about 149k miles on it. I need some insight on some problems I have been having lately. The following may or may not be all connected.

Alright so last summer I had about 140k miles or so and the spark plugs had never been changed to my knowledge (bought Jeep about 5 years ago with 97k miles). I had engine cylinder 6 misfire. I drove from point A to B a couple of times to get it fixed (twice [shop fixed it but didn't fix first time so I had to drive it back]) as I needed the Jeep fixed ASAP for a trip I was taking. 1 year and no problems or abnormalities except for one thing: I noticed a rattle in the exhaust system; likely damaged catalytic converter or other. Im ok with this.

Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago. I threw a P0137 and P2096 code which are O2 sensors (and possibly cat(s)) - also okay with this as both prolly needed done. I cleared these codes with my own tool hoping it was just a glitch and needed nothing (but still planned on replacing all 4 O2 sensors). Engine light came back and threw p0137 and p0133. Cleared em again and now is just p0137.

Now, I have checked all fluids regularly since I have had the Jeep including ATF which has never had to be touched and looks/smells clean, etc. The last time I had checked it was roughly 5 days ago when I had to use as a daily for a few days while my other vehicle was in the shop for insurance claim (turkey - go figure).

Fast forward to yesterday morning:

While waiting for O2 sensors to come in (ordered all 4), I figured the only damage I could do driving with bad O2 sensor(s) is decrease fuel mileage and possibly hurt the cat even further (and the code could have also been due to cat based on my research). Anyway, I was pulling out of my place of work and I got 100 feet and the transmission (2005 TJ, 42rle) would not catch in Drive all of a sudden and was almost as if it was stuck in neutral; reverse also did not work. I managed to get it going again and drive it 100 feet back to parking lot where it happened again. Parked it, opened hood to check ATF to find that the fluid was LOW (at operating temp). I added some ATF+4 through dipstick tube, started it back up, and checked it while running. What I found was very very odd. Once it was between hot and cold markings, I noticed that every time I checked it I would get MIXED readings; low, "sweet-spot," or literally NOTHING. I shut it off, checked while in park to find the same mixed readings. I started it back up, cycled all the gears and checked again while running to also have the same results. I went to start it up again and it would not start at all - no clicking or anything. I bad a fully charged jump pack on me thinking it was the battery (bran new Die Hard Platinum) and it still would not start, so that was not it. I checked under the Jeep near the rad and saw what looked like the trans line had a weep in it but old (greasy etc) but it was definitely the trans line to rad. However, this spot, although weeping and looking old, does not appear to be a spot that would leak ALL ATF THAT fast. Haven't had time to crawl under since then cause Im currently working and now down two vehicles and trying to figure out transportation lol.

So, my question is (or questions) for the experts on here: Could these be related? Is it possible something is clogged like torque converter or something which is preventing ATF to flow to trans, giving in inaccurate reading? Obviously my trans is toast most likely at this point. Based off this info, should I even consider repairs? Trans, cat(s), torque converter, starting issues now, and possibly more? Seems totaled to me.

I have literally never has a single problem with this vehicle up until now and would be a shame to lose it after all I have done to it (mostly interior/exterior upgrades that dont affect the geometry or mechanical workings of the Jeep.

Quick update: Just crawled under the Jeep and trans fluid is everywhere; covering the entire under carriage. Come to think about it, I have noticed a burning smell the last few days I have been driving it. I think it's safe to say the trans 42rle in this one is toast.

Next steps / recommendations?

Thank you ALL in advance and God bless.

 

[97' 4 Popper]

I'm bumping this thread.

If it is leaking it should be easy to track down where the leak is coming from...what goes up must come down.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I'd add more ATF+4 to get it to the TOP of the full/hot line, make sure you're only checking the ATF level while the engine is running. Being slightly overfilled is far better than being even slightly underfilled with an automatic transmission.

Once you get the ATF+4 level reliably reading at the Full mark (or slightly higher) while the engine is running, if you still have transmission problems you might be one of the lucky ones whose problem is just a bad PCM. 2005-6 PCMs have programming bugs in the PCM that can cause automatic transmission problems.

Talk with Mark @Wranglerfix at www.wranglerfix.com once you get the ATF level reliably up to the full mark, assuming it's not actually leaking. They have figured out the programming bugs in the PCM for the automatic, if that's your problem.

 

[mako_Five.56]

I'd add more ATF+4 to get it to the TOP of the full/hot line, make sure you're only checking the ATF level while the engine is running. Being slightly overfilled is far better than being even slightly underfilled with an automatic transmission.

Once you get the ATF+4 level reliably reading at the Full mark (or slightly higher) while the engine is running, if you still have transmission problems you might be one of the lucky ones whose problem is just a bad PCM. 2005-6 PCMs have programming bugs in the PCM that can cause automatic transmission problems.

Talk with Mark @Wranglerfix at www.wranglerfix.com once you get the ATF level reliably up to the full mark, assuming it's not actually leaking. They have figured out the programming bugs in the PCM for the automatic, if that's your problem.

Thanks for reply Jerry. All very good insight and will definitely look into Mark for PCM as I am aware of the 05 models needing a replacement possibly later down the line.

I am not sure if you read my last paragraph, but there is a pretty serious leak in the 42rle as trans fluid has completely covered the bottom of the jeep. It looks like it came from the back panel area. Do you think the transmission be alright if I were to say tighten everything up and refill? The fluid that came out is brown (whereas it was pink before on the dipstick). This tells me one of two things: Either the brown ATF is from it just being on the bottom of the jeep and mixing with all the dirt/grime/etc or the transmission burned it up due to heat which was due to the ATF leak. Like I said, I had smelled a burning smell about 2-3 days in a row prior after driving the jeep. I was thinking it was a wire or something but I can almost positively say it was the transmission burning up before it gave out which was right before I discovered the leak. Do you think this 42rle can be salvageable by tightening bolts and refilling to full if this were the case?

 

[mako_Five.56]

I'm bumping this thread.

If it is leaking it should be easy to track down where the leak is coming from...what goes up must come down.

Thanks 4 Popper.

 

[mako_Five.56]

Alright so I have an update (from the reply I made to Jerry):

I just checked the dipstick to auto trans and it is now reading overfilled I am not sure how that is possible. It is cold as it is not able to start. Any thoughts? Could it actually be the trans that went out? Maybe torque converter? Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[97' 4 Popper]

Alright so I have an update (from the reply I made to Jerry):

I just checked the dipstick to auto trans and it is now reading overfilled I am not sure how that is possible. It is cold as it is not able to start. Any thoughts? Could it actually be the trans that went out? Maybe torque converter? Any help is greatly appreciated.

The trans will read overfilled when cold.

You said the leak is from the "back panel area". If by that you mean the tranny pan just drop it and redo the gasket.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Thanks for reply Jerry. All very good insight and will definitely look into Mark for PCM as I am aware of the 05 models needing a replacement possibly later down the line.

I am not sure if you read my last paragraph, but there is a pretty serious leak in the 42rle as trans fluid has completely covered the bottom of the jeep. It looks like it came from the back panel area. Do you think the transmission be alright if I were to say tighten everything up and refill? The fluid that came out is brown (whereas it was pink before on the dipstick). This tells me one of two things: Either the brown ATF is from it just being on the bottom of the jeep and mixing with all the dirt/grime/etc or the transmission burned it up due to heat which was due to the ATF leak. Like I said, I had smelled a burning smell about 2-3 days in a row prior after driving the jeep. I was thinking it was a wire or something but I can almost positively say it was the transmission burning up before it gave out which was right before I discovered the leak. Do you think this 42rle can be salvageable by tightening bolts and refilling to full if this were the case?

It's highly doubtful the leak is coming from a loose bolt. As above, your best bet is to clean things up so you can see where the leak is coming from. Also, a little lube can be blown around when driving to make it look like a big leak. The transfer case has ATF in it too so it's another potential source for leaking ATF.

The transmission dipstick will read an erroneously higher level than really exists when the engine isn't running and ATF has drained down into the pan. That's why the engine has to be running while you check the ATF level... so you see how much ATF is in the pan while the transmission is in operation.

See if the engine will start by moving the transmission shifter between Park and Neutral while holding the ignition switch in the Start position.

 

[mako_Five.56]

The trans will read overfilled when cold.

You said the leak is from the "back panel area". If by that you mean the tranny pan just drop it and redo the gasket.

Thanks 4 Popper. I will look at that. I guess what I am asking is (and I know this is a what-if) would a 42rle typically survive being that low on ATF for a few days? But I will start with that gasket in the area you are thinking of if it turns out that is where it is leaking. I saw fresh droplets coming out of what appeared to be a "panel" on the tranny. Is that the pan? Forgive me, Im all new to transmissions.

 

[mako_Five.56]

It's highly doubtful the leak is coming from a loose bolt. As above, your best bet is to clean things up so you can see where the leak is coming from. Also, a little lube can be blown around when driving to make it look like a big leak. The transfer case has ATF in it too so it's another potential source for leaking ATF.

The transmission dipstick will read an erroneously higher level than really exists when the engine isn't running and ATF has drained down into the pan. That's why the engine has to be running while you check the ATF level... so you see how much ATF is in the pan while the transmission is in operation.

See if the engine will start by moving the transmission shifter between Park and Neutral while holding the ignition switch in the Start position.

Thanks Jerry. I will try starting it up the way you suggested next time I am at the Jeep and report back here. Ill also look for where the leak is coming from. I saw some drops coming from the transmission "panel" area. That I did see but there could be other places. I understand a little can look like a lot but just to be sure.

 

[97' 4 Popper]

Thanks 4 Popper. I will look at that. I guess what I am asking is (and I know this is a what-if) would a 42rle typically survive being that low on ATF for a few days? But I will start with that gasket in the area you are thinking of if it turns out that is where it is leaking. I saw fresh droplets coming out of what appeared to be a "panel" on the tranny. Is that the pan? Forgive me, Im all new to transmissions.

Running it any more than half a quart low for a extended length of time is not ideal. But if you only drove it a bit with like a quart low before spotting the leak you'll be fine. I will admit when I dropped my pan it took hours to get the atf up to the full mark, you can only put 4 quarts in before you have to start the jeep. I drained 7 total, got the initial 4 in, then got another 1.5. After waiting about an hour I drove it around for 10 or 15 mins trying to get the fluid warmed up and it was over a quart low when I read the dipstick again. I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[mako_Five.56]

Thanks Jerry. I will try starting it up the way you suggested next time I am at the Jeep and report back here. Ill also look for where the leak is coming from. I saw some drops coming from the transmission "panel" area. That I did see but there could be other places. I understand a little can look like a lot but just to be sure.

No luck starting it this way. Still waiting for someone to take a look at it with me that has the proper tools. Im unable to locate the leak.

 

[hear]

No luck starting it this way. Still waiting for someone to take a look at it with me that has the proper tools. Im unable to locate the leak.

Having just gone through (and have hopefully now completed) the process of tracking down an ATF leak, the first step is to get everything clean so you can actually spot leaks and trace them. I was convinced I had a pan leak because things were too dirty to tell that I had a selector seal leak. But if you have it on the under carriage that suggests to me that it was spraying under pressure, or being slung by something spinning.

If you’re concerned that the fluid is burnt, I’d say drop the pan and see what comes out. The no start issue could be the NSS + maybe the shifter cable? And does “won’t start” mean won’t turn over, or won’t fire, or starts but then immediately dies?


BTW, what is the “panel?” Post some pics and let’s get you fixed

 

[mako_Five.56]

All right. Sorry for the delay I have been swamped. So I found the problem. The ignition actuator was bad so replaced that and now it starts. This was the reason for it not starting. As for the ATF leak, the transmission cooler steel lines from the rad was leaking significantly.

I also replaced all O2 sensors before finding the transmission fluid leak. See below.

Transmission fluid was dripping on the exhaust just around the O2 sensor (which was just replaced) from the front of the engine (I believe this is bank 1 sensor 2, could be wrong). I wad then able to determine where the leak was coming from and replaced the lines and all seems to run fine. However, I am still getting a check engine code (either p0133 or p0137 [I'll have to check once I get back home]).

Could this be throwing the code again due to the new O2 sensor being damaged by the ATF? When I found the leak (after replacing all O2 sensors), this particularly O2 sensor had ATF dripping on it and was smoking along with all other areas of the exhaust that had fluid on it.

 

[Just Chillin]

What brand of O2 sensors did you install?

 

[pagrey]

Your cats were rattling and you have codes, I'd suspect the cats. That's what they do when they crap out. I wouldn't buy another sensor but that's just me.

 

[mako_Five.56]

J Harding they were NTK brand.

And thanks Pagrey for feedback. Do you know if they throw that code when they go bad? The code is p0137. I checked today when I got off work.

 

[pagrey]

The code is p0137. I checked today when I got off work.

That's not the right code for the cat, low voltage 30 seconds after start so it might be related to the wiring or corrosion on some connectors which might also have triggered the P0133 you got earlier. P2096 might be unique to the 05-06 which points to the PCM and another reason to bug Mark.

 

[mako_Five.56]

Thanks Pagrey. So you believe this to be a PCM issue for p0137? Are you able to point me to the connectors I should check? Would this be the O2 connector or other? Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[pagrey]

All four (I think) on the PCM to start. If you are going to clean them you need a can of contact cleaner like deoxit or electronic cleaner. You might also check the ground cable on the engine block by the oil filter and the one by the firewall in the back to be sure it's in good condition. Don't waste too much time before at least running it by Mark, you could be chasing your tail.