97 2.5 automatic: Trouble mating engine to transmission

[martiniac]

This post is for advice from those who have knowledge of pulling and replacing engines.
1997 Wrangler SE Automatic
Engine had a busted piston skirt, so I'm attempting to install a different good engine that was mated to a manual transmission. Bare engines look identical. However, the engine will not mate to the transmission correctly. The torque convertor is all the way back aligned and mated to the pump flats. There is over 1/2 inch of spacing between the bolt flats on the torque convertor and the face of the bell housing when seated.
However, the torque convertor is pretty flush with the drive plate after mating the engine to the transmission. With all other engine swaps I've done, I've had to draw the torque convertor up to the drive plate with the bolts. Also, the engine binds up and won't turn by the crank bolt. Both engine to flywheel locating pins are present and are a very tight slip fit (<0.005).
There is a 0.575" spacer (pictured) that goes in between the drive plate and the crank, and I believe this spacer to be too thick? The spacer cannot go between the drive plate and the torque convertor, as there would be space between the torque convertor bolt flats and the drive plate so that is ruled out. I cannot leave the spacer out, as the bolts bottom out, and the drive plate is awfully close to the engine block and might actually rub on the block and the starter. With the spacer installed, the starter only rides on the very edge of the drive plate teeth. It appears that a 0.375" spacer would solve all my problems.
I pulled the original engine and attempted to do the swap 5+ years ago weeks before moving out of my old house. Now I have a much more capable shop with a lift and finally got back around to tinkering with this Jeep. An LS swap is in the future, as I have an all aluminum LH6 with a mild cam and supporting mods that I built for my Rainier and will go in the Jeep once I have obtained all the necessary swap components. I just want to enjoy this Jeep a little before I really tear into it.
Any one been in a similar situation and could lend some constructive advice? I'm in NE Indiana. Thanks in advance.

 

[Wildman]

Did you pull the pilot bearing from the crank on the replacement engine? You have to change out the pilot bearing to a bushing for the torque converter.

Not a very probable situation but have you checked to make sure that the crank for a manual transmission rig isn't different than a automatic?

What year is the donor engine?

Edit: As a side note, you should NEVER use the bolts to pull the torque converter up to the flex plate. You can either bend or break the flex plate or the torque converter by doing this.

 

[SSTJ]

Watching this thread to learn.

Also, check out the SE thread and the 97 thread in my signature and let us know if you have anything to add to them.

 

[martiniac]

Did you pull the pilot bearing from the crank on the replacement engine? You have to change out the pilot bearing to a bushing for the torque converter.

Not a very probable situation but have you checked to make sure that the crank for a manual transmission rig isn't different than a automatic?

What year is the donor engine?

Edit: As a side note, you should NEVER use the bolts to pull the torque converter up to the flex plate. You can either bend or break the flex plate or the torque converter by doing this.

The donor was also a 97 with a manual transmission. Same year, different transmission. The engines are exactly the same. I have measured all dimensions with a scale and calipers. The good engine was taken down to bare crank before adding the spacer.
Further, you literally have to reach back and pull the convertor up to the drive plate with your hand in order to get a first bolt started in any application. My post was to illustrate that the convertor was much to close to the drive plate once the engine and bell housing are mated. Anyway, this thread isn't to debate technique or semantics. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Wildman]

The donor was also a 97 with a manual transmission. Same year, different transmission. The engines are exactly the same. I have measured all dimensions with a scale and calipers. The good engine was taken down to bare crank before adding the spacer.
Further, you literally have to reach back and pull the convertor up to the drive plate with your hand in order to get a first bolt started in any application. My post was to illustrate that the convertor was much to close to the drive plate once the engine and bell housing are mated. Anyway, this thread isn't to debate technique or semantics. Thanks for your reply.

Was only trying to help.

Edit: have you checked the FSM to see what it says if anything?

 

[martiniac]

I do totally appreciate it. I'm a bit harsh and extremely particular right now as I've put a lot of time into this and covered all the bases. Something stupid isn't right. I might just machine another spacer 0.125" shorter and see if that fixes it. This combination should work with the parts I have though, since the Jeep ran and drove with the busted piston skirt. I'll see if I can find an FSM. Thanks again.

 

[Wildman]

I do totally appreciate it. I'm a bit harsh and extremely particular right now as I've put a lot of time into this and covered all the bases. Something stupid isn't right. I might just machine another spacer 0.125" shorter and see if that fixes it. This combination should work with the parts I have though, since the Jeep ran and drove with the busted piston skirt. I'll see if I can find an FSM. Thanks again.

FSM's are available here.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...ice-manuals-fsm-technical-documentation.4618/
It's interesting that it won't work since as you said it did before.
I'd look for something else before I modify the spacer.

 

[Wildman]

And believe me I know how frustrating it can be when stuff doesn't work. I'm on my 3rd year of rebuilding my TJ.

 

[martiniac]

FSM's are available here.

[URL]https://wranglertjforum.com/th...ice-manuals-fsm-technical-documentation.4618/[/URL]

It's interesting that it won't work since as you said it did before.
I'd look for something else before I modify the spacer.

I'm a machinist by trade. I can just make a new one.
I went through the 1997 TJ FSM and the 30RH FSM to no avail. I can't find any information about where the drive plate mates to the crank. FSM's just aren't created to facilitate swaps.

 

[P man]

The donor was also a 97 with a manual transmission. Same year, different transmission. The engines are exactly the same. I have measured all dimensions with a scale and calipers. The good engine was taken down to bare crank before adding the spacer.
Further, you literally have to reach back and pull the convertor up to the drive plate with your hand in order to get a first bolt started in any application. My post was to illustrate that the convertor was much to close to the drive plate once the engine and bell housing are mated. Anyway, this thread isn't to debate technique or semantics. Thanks for your reply.

Acting like a dick head to another member trying to help isn't going to encourage others to get involved. Chill out with the attitude

 

[Wildman]

Acting like a dick head to another member trying to help isn't going to encourage others to get involved. Chill out with the attitude

With the number of rigs you've disassembled do you have any suggestions or insights that might help?

 

[martiniac]

Acting like a dick head to another member trying to help isn't going to encourage others to get involved. Chill out with the attitude

Who are you talking to?
Either be constructive or don't post here. No need for name calling.
Thanks.

 

[P man]

With the number of rigs you've disassembled do you have any suggestions or insights that might help?

I'm not interested

 

[martiniac]

Solved.
Spacer goes on the torque convertor side of the drive plate.
My drive plate was bent, causing nothing to fit together properly or make sense.
With nothing to compare it to, I could only assume that it was as it should be.
All fixed now. Jeep being sold.
Thanks for putting up with my grouchiness, Wildman.

 

[Apparition]

Solved.
Spacer goes on the torque convertor side of the drive plate.
My drive plate was bent, causing nothing to fit together properly or make sense.
With nothing to compare it to, I could only assume that it was as it should be.
All fixed now. Jeep being sold.
Thanks for putting up with my grouchiness, Wildman.

Does this mean you aren’t LS swapping it now?