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Another Supercharger Question

Wls1996

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
41
Location
Pensacola, FL
Hi all,

Hoping some of the boost gurus ca chime in on this. I have made a few posts in regards to my supercharged 2006 rubicon (Boosted Tech).
I have been having the common 05-06 open loop issue, where in any situation other than full throttle there is a big delay of about 6-8 seconds before the computer goes into open loop. Mark at boosted tech says it is safe to have an AFR of 14.6 from 0-5 psi of boost, but this goes against what I have heard on other forums. My long term goal is bigger injectors and a tune, but I just want to be sure i'm not going to grenade my engine running it this way for now with the split second FTC and 7th injector. engine load in this part throttle, moderate boost range is about 80%. The other option I have, for now, is the split second enricher module which would allow me to enrich while still in closed loop.

Is it true the 14.6 is safe in low boost? I have zero drivability issues, it really feels great but I am concerned with being too lean.
 

Juggernaut

TJ Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 13, 2018
Messages
208
Location
New hampshire
Hi all,

Hoping some of the boost gurus ca chime in on this. I have made a few posts in regards to my supercharged 2006 rubicon (Boosted Tech).
I have been having the common 05-06 open loop issue, where in any situation other than full throttle there is a big delay of about 6-8 seconds before the computer goes into open loop. Mark at boosted tech says it is safe to have an AFR of 14.6 from 0-5 psi of boost, but this goes against what I have heard on other forums. My long term goal is bigger injectors and a tune, but I just want to be sure i'm not going to grenade my engine running it this way for now with the split second FTC and 7th injector. engine load in this part throttle, moderate boost range is about 80%. The other option I have, for now, is the split second enricher module which would allow me to enrich while still in closed loop.

Is it true the 14.6 is safe in low boost? I have zero drivability issues, it really feels great but I am concerned with being too lean.
A tune won't necessarily solve your condition. I assume BT provided you with a tune that zeroed any factory delay that the PCM would see when entering open loop. The problem is that the open loop is triggered based upon throttle voltage and the PCM, even when tuned with HPT, does not allow open loop at lower throttle voltages regardless of the setting. This would still be a limitation- even with larger injectors, ( unless you use the SS enricher). Does the 7th injector only work in open loop?
From my research it's not uncommon to run around stoich at lower boost levels.
 
OP
Wls1996

Wls1996

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
41
Location
Pensacola, FL
A tune won't necessarily solve your condition. I assume BT provided you with a tune that zeroed any factory delay that the PCM would see when entering open loop. The problem is that the open loop is triggered based upon throttle voltage and the PCM, even when tuned with HPT, does not allow open loop at lower throttle voltages regardless of the setting. This would still be a limitation- even with larger injectors, ( unless you use the SS enricher). Does the 7th injector only work in open loop?
From my research it's not uncommon to run around stoich at lower boost levels.
Yes BT did tune, this has been going on for about 7 months now, and Mark has been helpful with trying to get everything sorted for me. From my understanding, the 7th injector works when the internal MAP sensor on the FTC registers boost. My assumption is the PCM is just cutting fuel to maintain stoich. If 14.6 in mild boost is dangerous to the engine, my next plan would be larger injectors, enricher and maybe get rid of the FTC all together and have the timing adjusted my a tuner if I can find one.

Just really don’t want to grenade a 70,000 mile engine
 

jeeptjtx

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Aug 9, 2021
Messages
9
Location
Texas
Yes BT did tune, this has been going on for about 7 months now, and Mark has been helpful with trying to get everything sorted for me. From my understanding, the 7th injector works when the internal MAP sensor on the FTC registers boost. My assumption is the PCM is just cutting fuel to maintain stoich. If 14.6 in mild boost is dangerous to the engine, my next plan would be larger injectors, enricher and maybe get rid of the FTC all together and have the timing adjusted my a tuner if I can find one.

Just really don’t want to grenade a 70,000 mile engine
I am having the same issue with the same setup on my 2003 and can't seem to find a definite solution.
 

SkylinesSuck

TJ Expert
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Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
3,274
Location
Northern VA
I think many people have described a similar issue. I've heard talk about voltage clamps and extra injectors as an attempted solution, but both are half assed bandaids IMHO. I'm not a fan of what I've seen from Boosted Tech.
 

SPECWAR

TJ Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
Messages
559
Location
Plain Township Ohio
14.6 at any boost level seems dangerously lean in my opinion. I’ve owned 6 different Ford 4.6 and 5.4 FAI vehicles and never had any of them over 12-12.5/1 AFR. Spent a few years with Superchips Ford tuning guru and I had to squeeze him pretty hard to go above 12/1 on one of my Terminators.
 

SkylinesSuck

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Mar 28, 2020
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Making a blanket statement like "14.7 below 5psi is safe" just shows how little they know about forced induction. That statement might be true in specific instances, but is not even close to universally true and is just a BS excuse for a product that doesn't work well.
 
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Wls1996

Wls1996

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Nov 10, 2019
Messages
41
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Pensacola, FL
Ditch the Split Second garbage and get some bigger injectors and a good tune from @Flyin' Ryan Performance.

Also, intercool that shit ;)
I did try to reach out to Ryan but never heard back from him. I would love to go the larger injector/tune route but I cant seem to find anyone who will tune it for me. Also, if Mark at BoostedTech cant get rid of the open-loop dealy, wouldn't everyone else who tries run into the same issue?
 

Chris

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I did try to reach out to Ryan but never heard back from him. I would love to go the larger injector/tune route but I cant seem to find anyone who will tune it for me. Also, if Mark at BoostedTech cant get rid of the open-loop dealy, wouldn't everyone else who tries run into the same issue?

I trust Mark zero.

Have you tried calling Ryan? He really knows his shit when it comes to forced induction 4.0s.
 
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Chris

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Is there any chance you could drop a ling to larger injectors that would fit? Is adapting needed or are there some that would be plug and play? I may have found a shop here in NW Florida that can tune it.
Unfortunately I wouldn’t know which injectors you’d need. I gave up on the supercharger idea years ago after going through the Boosted Tech and Magnum Powers unit.
 

NashvilleTJ

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Is there any chance you could drop a ling to larger injectors that would fit? Is adapting needed or are there some that would be plug and play? I may have found a shop here in NW Florida that can tune it.
When I was running the Kenne Bell on my old 4.0, I was running 42 pound injectors that came right from them. I checked and unfortunately I can't find the brand or part number, but I'll look a little harder.
 
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Chris

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He said he's not taking new customers for now a little while back. I'm trying to get ahold of him myself actually.
Oh really? That's interesting.

Hopefully he keeps working with me since I need a tune for this thing now that the auto swap is complete.
 
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BC Moto

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May 27, 2021
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287
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Bay Area SF
Hi all,

Is it true the 14.6 is safe in low boost? I have zero drivability issues, it really feels great but I am concerned with being too lean.
From all the things ive done and built this is not good. when cruising down the road no real load you can get away with 14.6 just fine but under load im going to say no. It also depends what your tune looks like.
 

Juggernaut

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Dec 13, 2018
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208
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New hampshire
FRP knows his shit no doubt about that but the PCM for the 05/06 is still going to fight him or any tuner using HPT on the CL/OL enrichment issue. Until HPT fixes the software for these years, (which is never going to happen), the problem will remain for any forced induction using their software to tune.

The options to relieve the lean AFR at low boost seem to be using a signal conditioner/modifier on the O2s, using different tuning software, (FYI -I hear similar complaints with Diablo), using a stand alone Ecu like another member here is doing, or living with what you have.

To the original question- while the AFR is lean and is certainly not helping make power, it might in fact be safe if the timing is in fact that conservative and the resulting pressure and temps and low and there is no knocking. Again it’s definitely leaving performance on the table but the tune could in fact be safe to run and I wouldn’t rush to say it absolutely has to be 11.5 underboost or it’s going to Chernobyl on you.
 

jeeptjtx

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From what I've researched/read, the OL enrichment delay starts with the 2003 PCMs. Can I run a PCM from a 2001/2002 in my 2003?
 

Juggernaut

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Dec 13, 2018
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From what I've researched/read, the OL enrichment delay starts with the 2003 PCMs. Can I run a PCM from a 2001/2002 in my 2003?
Jeep used the JTEC controllers from 1996- 2004. Many have had greater success with the JTEC than the NGC3 controller in the 05/06 model years.