Are 33's bad for 3.07 gears?
- Thread starter PWest08
- Start date
You know it just dawned on my why it's absolutely critical to have tall (tall as you can tolerate?) gears for any serious trails *especially* in a manual TJ. I'm sure you vets already know this (and if I'm mistaken in my reasoning please correct me), but for anyone dealing with this question who happens across this thread and for those of us with 3.07 manual TJs..
I've been grappling with a driving question recently as I've watched some of you guys do more serious crawling on the YouTube, which is; how huge of a pain in the ass is it going to be working three pedals when I'm into that harry stuff, and it hit me that I shouldn't be. Or I should try not to, at least. It seems you'd really want to be working with just two pedals, yes? The gas and the brake? But in a manual that means you gotta keep those wheels moving to keep from stalling. If your gears are really long the wheels will have a greater minimum turn speed in 4LO 1st and if you're in bigger rocks or tighter terrain you'll either be working frantically, burning up your clutch and wearing out that parking brake, or you'll be bouncing around like a madman as those tires grab and spin and lurch--unpleasant, p.i.t.a., and possibly dangerous and damaging.
With very short gears, on the other hand, the minimum turn speed will be so slow that the tires will just chirp along as you creep forward or grapple with an obstacle. Clearly axle strength becomes critical here as well, especially with larger tires, and suddenly I'm thinking 4.88 is the longest I'd want to be on 33s, and even 5.13 doesn't seem unreasonable, depending on intended use.
Am I thinking correctly here? Technical crawling is newer to me so I'm still working through the concepts. I can certainly see why an automatic basically becomes a must in really technical stuff.
I'd be particularly curious to hear from those of you with crawling experience in a manual rig on this one. Thanks in advance.
I've been grappling with a driving question recently as I've watched some of you guys do more serious crawling on the YouTube, which is; how huge of a pain in the ass is it going to be working three pedals when I'm into that harry stuff, and it hit me that I shouldn't be. Or I should try not to, at least. It seems you'd really want to be working with just two pedals, yes? The gas and the brake? But in a manual that means you gotta keep those wheels moving to keep from stalling. If your gears are really long the wheels will have a greater minimum turn speed in 4LO 1st and if you're in bigger rocks or tighter terrain you'll either be working frantically, burning up your clutch and wearing out that parking brake, or you'll be bouncing around like a madman as those tires grab and spin and lurch--unpleasant, p.i.t.a., and possibly dangerous and damaging.
With very short gears, on the other hand, the minimum turn speed will be so slow that the tires will just chirp along as you creep forward or grapple with an obstacle. Clearly axle strength becomes critical here as well, especially with larger tires, and suddenly I'm thinking 4.88 is the longest I'd want to be on 33s, and even 5.13 doesn't seem unreasonable, depending on intended use.
Am I thinking correctly here? Technical crawling is newer to me so I'm still working through the concepts. I can certainly see why an automatic basically becomes a must in really technical stuff.
I'd be particularly curious to hear from those of you with crawling experience in a manual rig on this one. Thanks in advance.
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When I regeared mine, I thought long and hard about where the power was and where I would be using it. I decided that my normal top speed would never be more than 75-80mph. I also built my Jeep to be able to travel those speeds. Anything faster than that, while achievable, would be unusual. That is how I arrived at what I have on my daily driver, which is actually a step lower than else many have recommended for years. Coincidentally (and beneficially for both off road and big city traffic) this resulted in a quite low first gear where use of the clutch for take off is nearly optional.
I do agree that this is far easier on the clutch than before the regear and slightly more so than if I went with the traditional recommendation. After the regear, I immediately noticed far less corrective shifting in order to maintain speed. While off road, the engine stalled far less, as well. In my experience there has been absolutely no downside to lower gears in any situation.
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Brian83
TJ Enthusiast
Install a hand throttle on your gear shifter and now you dont have to worry about three pedals when things get hairy.
A hand throttle helps sometimes. I don't use it nearly as much as one might think it would be useful.
I'm gonna be regearing and installing an Atlas and maybe even another transmission because when I'm off road 3.07s and the 2.72 and 3.83 is rarely enough crawl ratio to even carefully get through mud. Yes if you can use momentum that ratio isn't bad but I'm almost always in places that using momentum is dangerous or tearing up land I'll later have to go fix. And time after time I've gotten further by very slowly crawling than using what I consider a dirt road crawl ratio.
I have found through limited experience that a crawl ratio of about 60:1 to be the minimum for doing ordinary off road stuff where I don't want to smell a burning clutch. That will get you through mud, ditches and over some small stuff without risking injury or unnecessary broken parts. And if you'll notice, most Rubicon model Jeeps start with this ratio too.
Remember I've got a different power band, hence my ratio, that I'm going to 3.73, which I wouldn't do except that it's so good on the road and Atlas with 5:1 or more. From there I may even swap transmissions for something closer to 6:1 first gear.
If I were to get into really steep crawls or rocks, I might try out maybe even around 200:1, but I've got no experience in a vehicle with that kind of gear ratio.
I have found through limited experience that a crawl ratio of about 60:1 to be the minimum for doing ordinary off road stuff where I don't want to smell a burning clutch. That will get you through mud, ditches and over some small stuff without risking injury or unnecessary broken parts. And if you'll notice, most Rubicon model Jeeps start with this ratio too.
Remember I've got a different power band, hence my ratio, that I'm going to 3.73, which I wouldn't do except that it's so good on the road and Atlas with 5:1 or more. From there I may even swap transmissions for something closer to 6:1 first gear.
If I were to get into really steep crawls or rocks, I might try out maybe even around 200:1, but I've got no experience in a vehicle with that kind of gear ratio.
You should gear your Jeep to what it is going to be used for. Pure off road and a taller gear is going to put your engine in its ideal rpm range. A daily driver and a slightly less gearing to put the engine rpms where they want to be at highway driving. Anything other than those two extremes and you will find the gear ratio that is best for your type of driving. With a good transmission you will note that gearing for the highway in top gear will put 1st in good position for off road use. This is one of the main benefits of the 4:1 transfer in a Rubicon. It puts the low range to where 2nd gear is super for the technical stuff, but if it gets really really rough you can still grab down to 1st.
A person with enough experience driving a stick on and off road will not have a hard time working 3 pedals. It becomes second nature. Watch someone running a large backhoe. He/she is using all four limbs, at least 2 of them working multiple controls, all at the same time. The boom and bucket seem to work in perfect harmony. It's like walking and chewing gum to him/her.
A person with enough experience driving a stick on and off road will not have a hard time working 3 pedals. It becomes second nature. Watch someone running a large backhoe. He/she is using all four limbs, at least 2 of them working multiple controls, all at the same time. The boom and bucket seem to work in perfect harmony. It's like walking and chewing gum to him/her.
So what gears did you end up with? You didn't say.
I appreciate the perspective--thank you all. I'm feeling less pressure to make this a do-it-all Tj because I just picked up second Jeep--a '97 I6 manual Sport that's already pretty offroad-centric (8.8 rear and 4.11 gears I'm guessing--still tracking down details). That one will get the 4.88 gearing at least, maybe even 5.13 for tire-size flexibility. This green guy is going to be the forest runner--I think I'll go with 4.56 to maintain some road manners and keep it on 33s or smaller. My son is almost driving age so they'll be fun in tandem.
I'm going to post separately on the new-to-me '97 in the member rides section. I'm hoping for some shared insight on what I've got because I picked it up from a dealer and they didn't have any documentation on upgrades, and it has plenty. I'm hoping I might even run into the previous owner here because it seems to be thoughtfully put together. I'll post a link later in case anyone is interested.
4.88/5 speed/33s puts mine at 3k rpm at 75mph.
As a former owner of 3 ram diesels the reason not to use 5th is because the 5th gear shaft is only splined 50% of the gears conatct. The gear itself eventually rocks on the shaft, the nut that holds 5th on the shaft comes loose and falls off,then the gear itself falls off.
Can you point to a single case of this occurring on a 1997-2006 TJ?
We could ask jodo for how this is relevant to us, but he was banned several years ago.
I don’t think Gilaguy was suggesting it was relevant, rather just offering info on the ram diesels.
I second this, im on 3.07 with 33's and my Thang is defo still quick, somehow managed to beat a powerstroke in a rolling race, im about to re gear to 4:56
Did he know he was racing you? When you regear to 488 like you ought to, the Jeep still isn't going to be confused for quick.
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100% just mad driving skills, dropped from 3rd to second, I have a short shifter, exhaust, and some nicer fuel injectors which doesn’t make a difference but it was like an actual race
Im
curious is 4.88 going to kill my mpg? if it’s properly going to be geared to my tires
Uh,no. 3.07 and 33's is aweful. 5th is almost unuseable and it will always seem like its in the wrong gear to make any power.
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