Arizona Rock Crawler

[mrblaine]

There is way too much that goes on behind the scenes. Lots of info that folks are hiding that they don’t publicly share. I wish more guys were transparent with their experiences. It would clarify this misinformation that way to often isn’t shown.

I have been quiet for a very long time in the interest of keeping the BS on the forum to a minimum. Then, I get more than a few calls trying to get me to engage in the same putting down of another company to make myself or Savvy look better and I just get tired of it.

There are a lot of ways to do things, none of us have it all figured out. It is at best disingenuous to try and convince folks you have the best when so many things are obviously incorrect.

My mistake was being honest about a miniscule increase in body roll that is only perceptible by someone who pays a lot of attention to how their rig handles before and after the mid arm. That has been blown way out of proportion and done so with the intent to confuse. I don't like that at all.

 

[jjvw]

So, not the JW kit? It matters because for a year now we have all been aware of how the JW Geo kit behaves off road, despite efforts to deny it. Now some of us have seen that if the JW Geo kit is modified into something fundamentally other than what JW intended, it can be improved. Yet somehow that is lost on a certain crowd of pretend free thinkers who feel the need to place this kit on an underdog pedestal because it is more important to feel like not-a-sheep than to actually care about function and performance.

Don't people don't want the conflict. I get it, even though I often don't do much to avoid it.

 

[jjvw]

...

My mistake was being honest about a miniscule increase in body roll that is only perceptible by someone who pays a lot of attention to how their rig handles before and after the mid arm. That has been blown way out of proportion ...

I haven't been much help on that front

 

[rasband]

I haven't been much help on that front

Give them an inch...

 

[Brianj5600]

You don't have a JW Geo Correction kit. What you built, I suspect, is closer to what Starkey has come up with to fix the JW kit. He no longer has what JW intended because it didn't work. Quit defending something that you don't have and something that didn't work. You have no need to defend JW.

I don't remember defending Dave directly. I do think he may be over hyping his brackets, but I fully believe that they are a big help on 4" short arms. My brackets are virtually identical. I think my upper axle mount is 3/8" lower than Starky's JW bracket which would put IC pretty close to Starkey's. Mid arms are not for everyone because the price and install time. I will never understand why anyone would settle for 190% AS when for $160 they could get down close to 100%. More than one member has called GC a band aid, but an open wound that won't ever heal is worse.

I recently sent a private message to a member stating "I would like to know why jj continues to downplay GC. Personal against Dave? Me?"

Give them an inch...

...and they think they are a ruler.

 

[jjvw]

I don't remember defending Dave directly. ...

Call it what you want, here you are.

....

I recently sent a private message to a member stating "I would like to know why jj continues to downplay GC. Personal against Dave? Me?"
...

I can think of a few possibilities, none of whom carry any importance to me. And if you recall, I'm good for business.

 

[rasband]

I would like to know why jj continues to downplay GC.

Because we've seen what it does. It's not down playing anything, it's observation. But it's cool if you want to confirm your bias. As someone that's been looking a while I had no bias to confirm, only a decision to make. Garrett's setup helped me inform that decision, we were all able to see ways our jeeps did really well and other ways they could be improved.

...and they think they are a ruler.

Something like that, but not really.

 

[someguysjeep]

a miniscule increase in body roll

is this not just a byproduct of upper link triangulation vs stock spread?

 

[Brianj5600]

Call it what you want, here you are.



I can think of a few possibilities, none of whom carry any importance to me. And if you recall, I'm good for business.

I have something similar to what he sells. I am neutral with Dave. I don't care what Dave does. I have no firsthand experience with Dave and the internet is not reliable.

No comment.

 

[jjvw]

is this not just a byproduct of upper link triangulation vs stock spread?

It's the lack of the track bar along with the elimination of the inherent bind amongst the links. And the difference between a 3/4 link and stock-ish is fairly minor. I am one of the people Blaine was referring to who was aware of it, noticed it, and likely made it more prominent than it should have been. Like a lot of things in my build progression over the years, perspective has changed many things in hindsight. Especially once I started being able to make some of the more interesting changes that had really dramatic effects.

 

[jjvw]

I have something similar to what he sells. I am neutral with Dave. I don't care what Dave does. I have no firsthand experience with Dave and the internet is not reliable.

No comment.

Which is preferable in your opinion, Dave's GC or Jim's GC?

 

[Lou]

Driver correction will do better things off road than geometry correction.

 

[hosejockey61]

I think you should take this conversation outside of this build thread. It's not fair to Garrett.

 

[psrivats]

It's the lack of the track bar along with the elimination of the inherent bind amongst the links. And the difference between a 3/4 link and stock-ish is fairly minor. I am one of the people Blaine was referring to who was aware of it, noticed it, and likely made it more prominent than it should have been. Like a lot of things in my build progression over the years, perspective has changed many things in hindsight. Especially once I started being able to make some of the more interesting changes that had really dramatic effects.

What people don't seem to keep in mind is that good shocks with a proper tune and swaybars will mitigate whatever little roll is perceived. Somehow that bit gets left out or ignored entirely.

I sound like I'm simply repeating what you and Blaine have said. But recent experiences with my shocks have really given me the perspective that I did not have before.

 

[jjvw]

What people don't seem to keep in mind is that good shocks with a proper tune and swaybars will mitigate whatever little roll is perceived. Somehow that bit gets left out or ignored entirely.

I sound like I'm simply repeating what you and Blaine have said. But recent experiences with my shocks have really given me the perspective that I did not have before.

Which also plays into the concept of the total build. Focusing too much on one specific detail can be misguided. But when everything starts working together, the magic begins to happen.

 

[RINC]

I think you should take this conversation outside of this build thread. It's not fair to Garrett.

Come on Dad ?!!

Since Chris sold his Jeep, Garretts thread here seems to be the town square for opposing idea's IMHO.

Or maybe I am biased to threads of peeps local to me?

 

[starkey480]

Driver correction will do better things off road than geometry correction.

Did you get your driver correction from Jeep west?

 

[Brianj5600]

Because we've seen what it does. It's not down playing anything, it's observation. But it's cool if you want to confirm your bias. As someone that's been looking a while I had no bias to confirm, only a decision to make. Garrett's setup helped me inform that decision, we were all able to see ways our jeeps did really well and other ways they could be improved.

I have seen what short arms do in Moab. I'm pretty sure it doesn't look like Garrett's.

Which is preferable in your opinion, Dave's GC or Jim's GC?

Mine is the only have experience with. The other two I have never had on my Jeep, but Jim's was complicated and tied to the stock axle UCA mount, so I'll give Dave the mod.

 

[RINC]

Did you get your driver correction from Jeep west?
View attachment 326755View attachment 326758

I for one am jealous of the under armor in the first picture.

 

[Lou]

I for one am jealous of the under armor in the first picture.

Don’t be, that skid is a POS.