Axle Questions

[lBasket]

I need to rebuild my front axle bad - one of the carrier bearings is eating through it's race. I've been doing some research on what I want to do when I rebuild it as it's expensive, and while I think I have a plan in place I wanted to make sure what I'm doing is sound and makes sense.

The jeep - 97, 4.0, AX15, Dana 30/35, 3.55 gears. Currently running 31s. Decent possibility I move up to 33s after a lift, tummy tuck, etc. Less likely I end up on 35s - if I do it won't be for at least 3-4 years based on my current trajectory. I wheel in the Rockies so a decent mixture of Forest Roads, rocky trails, and there is rock crawling out here I'd like to start getting into/building for (thanks, Moab). I "daily" my jeep as well, but I WFH so by "daily" I mean I drive it within a mile to the grocery store once a week...

I'll start off talking about what my current plan is. I am thinking of keeping the axles, the 30/35. The idea is to get the "master rebuild kit" and have them both rebuilt, both re-geared (thinking 4.88 or 5.13, see question section below lol), an Eaton E-Locker in the rear, and a new lunchbox locker in the front (Currently have one, will need to get a new one since carrier cutoff is between 3.55/3.73). This will run me around $3500ish, every reputable store in my area I've found is pretty similarly priced.

The questions I am hoping you guys can help me out with to make sure I'm doing the "right" thing here (this is a lot of money for me ha) are:

What Axles should I use?

Am I going to regret building a Dana 30/35? I've read on the forum that the super 35 is adequate up to 35s, which I'm not sure I'll even get to. So I'm thinking I'm okay with these - but maybe not. The other options are dana 44(s) from a TJ (Which will turn this from ~3k to ~6k, I cannot afford this option), or:

Ford 8.8 (rear) : Sounds like it used to be an option to add strength, but it hangs lower than the 35 and with a super 35 the 8.8 isn't significantly stronger? It also can come with a LSD and disc breaks - neither of which matter to me - adding an E locker, and brakes are just a maintenance difference.

Dana 44/35/30 from a JK (front/rear) : is the 35/30 stronger on the JK? Is it worth changing a JK axle for a TJ? I cannot weld so I assume this will be fairly expensive. Does seem like 44s from JKs are quite a bit cheaper.

Dana 30 HP (front) : Dana 30 HP from an XJ. I hear it's stronger - how much stronger? Is it significant enough I should wait to find one, or is it a "nice to have" if I can find one reasonably priced?

Other axles (front/rear): I see Dana 60s from Fords, Dana 44s from like 80s Fords, things like this for sale for fairly reasonable prices (2-300$). Are these worth considering either, or is the weight + bracket welding not worth it? To me, they seem overheavy and oversized for my goals. But if the 30/35 aren't strong enough, maybe I have the wrong perspective?

Can I even use my Dana 30?
Maybe this should've been the first question. My Dana 30 is slightly bent according to Grease Monkey - my caster (I think that's the right measurement?) is 6.3º (left) and 6.4º (right). I have read axles can be straightened:

Does straightening an axle weaken it?
Can I straighten an axle bent to that extent?
Or, should I just buy a replacement since they're cheap. If that's the best solution, how can I ensure I don't buy another bent one?

What ratio should I go for?
I'm debating between 4.88 and 5.13. I'm leaning towards the 5.13. With the 2.72 TCase, altitude, and hills out here, I am thinking I am better off erring on the side of a "steeper" gearset. Any considerations I may be missing?


Anyways any help you guys have is appreciated - in these questions or things I might not even be thinking about (and should). This is almost as much as I bought the Jeep for so I want to be sure I do it right the first time lol

 

[Jerry Bransford]

It's normal for your front axle to have slightly different left/right caster angles so that yours are different is definitely not a guarantee the axle is truly bent. If the difference in l/r caster angles is the only thing they're basing that bent axle suggestion on, it's likely not bent. A .3 to .4 degree difference between the left and right sides for the caster angles is common and normal.

Since you're at 5,000' there in Aurora I'd go with 4.88 for your 33's or 5.13 for 35's.

I definitely would not go for the 8.8 and if it was me I'd go for the Super 35 kit from Revolution Gear & Axle. That's an easy thing to install and since you're regearing anyway there should be no extra installation charge for it. It's simpler to do that and you'll end up with axle shafts that are actually slightly stronger than the factory Dana 44 axle shafts are. You can get the Super 35 kit from Ricky @Garza at www.4low parts.com who is a veteran dealer for RGA.

 

[lBasket]

It's normal for your front axle to have slightly different left/right caster angles so that yours are different is definitely not a guarantee the axle is truly bent. If the difference in l/r caster angles is the only thing they're basing that bent axle suggestion on, it's likely not bent. A .3 to .4 degree difference between the left and right sides for the caster angles is common and normal.

Oh awesome thank you Jerry. That is good news - saves me a couple hundred bucks there.

Since you're at 5,000' there in Aurora I'd go with 4.88 for your 33's or 5.13 for 35's.

Perfect, I'll probably stick with the 4.88 then since 35s aren't likely and I'll probably run it on 31s for a bit too. Be nice to still be able to drive on the highway

I definitely would not go for the 8.8 and if it was me I'd go for the Super 35 kit from Revolution Gear & Axle. That's an easy thing to install and since you're regearing anyway there should be no extra installation charge for it. It's simpler to do that and you'll end up with axle shafts that are actually slightly stronger than the factory Dana 44 axle shafts are. You can get the Super 35 kit from Ricky @Garza at www.4low parts.com who is a veteran dealer for RGA.

Cool - so sounds like my plan does make sense for what I'm trying to do which is nice. My understanding is the super 35 kit doesn't affect any of the gear setup and is something I could DIY later after the fact. Is this correct? It'd be ideal to do it all at once, but we'll see if I can afford to do so ha. Guess if the super35 kit is only a couple hundred bucks I might as well let them handle it, but like to know I have the option to do it myself later if money is a problem

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Installing a Super 35 kit doesn't affect gear setup but it has the potential to slightly affect the backlash between the ring & pinion gears. That is however an easy thing to check and re-shim the carrier left or right slightly if needed to get the backlash back where it was. Which may or may not need to be done.

 

[lBasket]

Installing a Super 35 kit doesn't affect gear setup but it has the potential to slightly affect the backlash between the ring & pinion gears. That is however an easy thing to check and re-shim the carrier left or right slightly if needed to get the backlash back where it was. Which may or may not need to be done.

Ahh okay. Then sounds like I might as well be patient and wait til I can do it all at once - I'd hate to mess that up, and there is a reason I'm paying someone to do the rest after all.

Thanks for the help Jerry

 

[Mike_H]

Keeping the 30/35 will be the way I'd go. The high pinion Dana 30 from an XJ is a nice upgrade, but only if you can get the housing cheap. Its not necessary. All the other rear axle considerations your looking at are not worth the time and effort for what you're trying to achieve.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Yep I'd wait on installing the Super 35 kit until you decide you want either a locker in the rear or 35" tires. The stock Dana 35 is ok with 33" tires so long as there's not also a locker installed.

 

[lBasket]

Keeping the 30/35 will be the way I'd go. The high pinion Dana 30 from an XJ is a nice upgrade, but only if you can get the housing cheap. Its not necessary. All the other rear axle considerations your looking at are not worth the time and effort for what you're trying to achieve.

Perfect. I'll keep an eye out for a check HP 30 but I won't worry too much about it.

Yep I'd wait on installing the Super 35 kit until you decide you want either a locker in the rear or 35" tires. The stock Dana 35 is ok with 33" tires so long as there's not also a locker installed.

I am planning on putting in the Elocker with the regear since it is basically the same labor and I don't want to pay for it a second time down the line - so I think I'll just get th super35 done too. Trying to "do it all at once" to save some money on labor.

I might call them sometime soon to get on their waiting list - last time I called him he said he was having a lot of trouble getting gearsets, not sure if that's still an issue but I did see the RGA super35 was out of stock on their website.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I am planning on putting in the Elocker with the regear since it is basically the same labor and I don't want to pay for it a second time down the line - so I think I'll just get the super35 done too. Trying to "do it all at once" to save some money on labor.

I might call them sometime soon to get on their waiting list - last time I called him he said he was having a lot of trouble getting gearsets, not sure if that's still an issue but I did see the RGA super35 was out of stock on their website.

Oh yeah if you're going with the E-Locker (good decision) you need to do that together with the Super 35 kit. The stock axle shaft size is 27 splines and the Super 35 axle shafts are a larger diameter 30 spline size and the locker has to match, spline size. So you'll need the 30 spline size E-Locker. Yep give Ricky a call asap.

 

[pagrey]

Lunchbox lockers suck in the front. I'd build the rear with a locker and save for a seletable up front. With a locker in the rear you wont need the front as much and put much much less stress on those front u-joints. I did a lunchbox up front and no locker in the rear and it was a huge mistake. Blowing u-joints and overheating the power steering because you can't unlock the front in 4lo, no thanks.

 

[pc1p]

Lunchbox lockers suck in the front. I'd build the rear with a locker and save for a seletable up front. With a locker in the rear you wont need the front as much and put much much less stress on those front u-joints. I did a lunchbox up front and no locker in the rear and it was a huge mistake. Blowing u-joints and overheating the power steering because you can't unlock the front in 4lo, no thanks.

I'm curious, did you set up the LL correctly (i.e. ensuring the gap measurements were correct)? I have yet to see a properly setup LL not unlock on really tight turns (just like a traditional autolocker) when throttle (aka torque input) was managed.

**EDIT for clarification** I have only ever used or installed Aussie or Spartan LL's - I have zero experience with any other brand.

I know the traditional advice is to run a rear locker before a front locker, but here in AZ, most folk will run fronts first with good success (particularly with a Dana 35 rear). Those that run only a rear locker are often struggling on the same up-and-over obstacles that their front-locker friends seem to walk-up.

 

[lBasket]

Oh yeah if you're going with the E-Locker (good decision) you need to do that together with the Super 35 kit. The stock axle shaft size is 27 splines and the Super 35 axle shafts are a larger diameter 30 spline size and the locker has to match, spline size. So you'll need the 30 spline size E-Locker. Yep give Ricky a call asap.

Oh I didn't realize that difference. Glad I mentioned that then, thank you Jerry! Really appreciate all the info. Feeling confident with my plans now. I'm sure it will be nice to do that at the same time and be done with the axles for a while anyways.

Lunchbox lockers suck in the front. I'd build the rear with a locker and save for a seletable up front. With a locker in the rear you wont need the front as much and put much much less stress on those front u-joints. I did a lunchbox up front and no locker in the rear and it was a huge mistake. Blowing u-joints and overheating the power steering because you can't unlock the front in 4lo, no thanks.

My opinion is I do too much highway/street driving to not have a selectable in the rear. I do not have any issues with my current lunchbox in the front on tight turns - it's loud lol but it unlocks. I did check all my clearances during my install and they were all where they should've been

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I'm curious, did you set up the LL correctly (i.e. ensuring the gap measurements were correct)? I have yet to see a properly setup LL not unlock on really tight turns (just like a traditional autolocker) when throttle (aka torque input) was managed.

I agree, my front No-Slip lunchbox locker worked extremely well. It unlocked when it was supposed to, you just have to drive it properly so it can unlock automatically as it was designed to do.

The only issue I ever had with my front axle after installing that locker was on an EXTREMELY tough trail where one of the axle shafts broke. That in turn broke the u-joint. Replacing the axle shafts with heat treated 4340 shafts and new u-joints fixed that and I never had any more problems after that including another trip on that same trail that broke the front axle originally.

 

[Rubicon88]

If you're even considering the possibility of 35's....even if later on...
I'd highly recommend 5.13's

Once you do this project there's no going back. Too expensive to change your mind a few days after the fact.

Given your location and the hills...
Over gearing is good...
Under gearing sucks...

Besides you said this isn't a highway cruiser.
Nothing more annoying then fighting to get to the speed limit let alone actually speeding.

Moreover...taller tires have more weight and most times more rolling resistance.

5.13's..
Change axles in your 35..
Your 30 seems ok to use..
Lock it up...
On the locking...
If you can swing it...(if not I'd wait a little longer until you can) do both as selectable lockers.

How much more to do a second selectable locker? It's worth it IMO

Go wheeling!!

 

[pagrey]

I'm curious, did you set up the LL correctly (i.e. ensuring the gap measurements were correct)? I have yet to see a properly setup LL not unlock on really tight turns (just like a traditional autolocker) when throttle (aka torque input) was managed.

It was checked when installed and checked after. It's operating correctly. Not a bad deal if you can't afford a selectable rear, don't get me wrong. As for those that "didn't have problems" fine. You aren't paying for my u-joints, you didn't pay for my power steering cooler but I sure pay for listening to your advice. I simply am sharing what my experience has been and we all know 100 people saying they didn't snap their steel winch cable doesn't make it safe. It is wise to listen to those that have experience with failure.

As far as the no-slip I'd steer (mooo) clear and save up for the read deal for obvious reasons.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/powertrax-no-slip-locker-exploded.20202/
If you do go that route consider a power steering cooler, it's worth it. Get the good spicer u-joints up front, that's one thing @Jerry Bransford and I agree on.

 

[lBasket]

While I would prefer both selectable lockers, it is hard because that all has to happen at once, and adding another $1k onto the bill means I will be waiting another few months to get this done and crossing my fingers my bearing doesn't fail before that. So it is a bit of a balancing act between timing, cost, and the "correct" solution. Although I guess it probably always is...

I haven't had my lunchbox for very long but it doesn't seem to bother me - what size tires are you running @pagrey ? Read through that thread and it sounded like you would've recommended the automatic at the time (blaming the install not the locker). Did something happen since then or did you eat through UJoints back then too?

I did drive the heep to Moab and back with the lunchbox and I am not noticing any play in my UJoints (but maybe I should check closer...), so maybe I got a "good one"?

Yeahhh maybe I will go with the 5.13s... I wish I knew someone with a similar jeep with a ratio like that. I don't honestly know what kind of difference is between the two, my jeep doesn't feel "anemic" even with my 3.55 so it's hard to picture what difference it'll actually make.

 

[Rubicon88]

Patience....
You will regret it if you're revamping everything...think of how close you are ...
Do it right

 

[lBasket]

I do want to do it right - but I haven't been bothered by my lunchbox in the admittedly short time I've had it. I guess I'm not sure what the added benefit of the selectable (that is worth the extra cost). The extra benefits I can think of are:

I can lock the front when I'm not in 4wd, since it doesn't require torque from the driveshaft to lock. No idea how this could be useful.

This is probably the important one - I can have the front unlocked when in 4wd. What situations are out there where I will be sitting there wishing I could unlock my front axle?

Just trying to learn what's the best what's worth it and why...

 

[Rubicon88]

I do want to do it right - but I haven't been bothered by my lunchbox in the admittedly short time I've had it. I guess I'm not sure what the added benefit of the selectable (that is worth the extra cost). The extra benefits I can think of are:

I can lock the front when I'm not in 4wd, since it doesn't require torque from the driveshaft to lock. No idea how this could be useful.

This is probably the important one - I can have the front unlocked when in 4wd. What situations are out there where I will be sitting there wishing I could unlock my front axle?

Just trying to learn what's the best what's worth it and why...

I can lock the front when I'm not in 4wd, since it doesn't require torque from the driveshaft to lock. No idea how this could be useful.

It's not....


This is probably the important one - I can have the front unlocked when in 4wd. What situations are out there where I will be sitting there wishing I could unlock my front axle?

Turning tight on the trail...driving on the hwy in 4wd (snow) you're unlocked which is always more predictable

moreover..You're open all the time until you lock it up.

Just trying to learn what's the best what's worth it and why...

 

[lBasket]

Alright I will really think about doing both selectable then...

Another question, is it worth getting chromoly shafts in the front? And would they be 30spline as well meaning I need to do it at the same time as the locker?