I have an automatic so I'm not up to speed on all these new driving techniques. I use engine braking, are people using clutch braking now?
Best brakes when Black Magic is totally not in the budget?
- Thread starter NWPA Jeepy T
- Start date
Bob Brown
Member
Sarcastic humor at the notion that it is better to downshift and wear out a much more expensive to replace set of components rather than use the service brakes that are comparatively cheap and easy to replace.
Are you the thread police or do you have his answer?
Bob Brown
Member
A properly done downshift doesn't wear anything. I guess it's technically wearing the throwout bearing when the pedal is down for a second or two but the idea is not to slip the clutch at all. Most clutches on TJs last what, at least 150K? What's the cost difference between brakes and clutch over that time? How much is due to "downshift" wear and not starts and wheeling when you actually do slip the clutch on purpose, who knows? Not downshifting because you are afraid you are going to wear out the clutch is not something I'd do but if you've done the mental math and that's your thing then go for it. It's funny enough to me that I'll make fun of it. Hey, I bought a manual but don't wanna wear out the clutch cause it too expensive.
If there is anyone who can intentionally miss any valid point made, it is you.
OP
I know I know
35 years of driving the same way is hard to ditch
I did look at the pad/rotor options instead of kits, so thanks for that
My dad also taught me to downshift going into stops. He never rev matched, just down a gear and clutch out. 189k miles out of the original clutch and it wasn’t even shot when it got pulled (was doing transmission work so it got swapped). Downshifted into every single stop. There are valid arguments for not downshifting, clutch wear is not one.
I’ve found problems with keeping my black magic pads in good working condition around the city even without downshifting. If you are not in a city, they might be easier to keep in shape. They certainly are not the best pads for every driving style. But when you need to stop, they stop well.
I’ve found problems with keeping my black magic pads in good working condition around the city even without downshifting. If you are not in a city, they might be easier to keep in shape. They certainly are not the best pads for every driving style. But when you need to stop, they stop well.
Only have a few miles on my Black Magic pads and so far very impressed, factory size, all four corners. My brakes weren't in the best shape to begin with so my contrast might be skewed a bit. Is it normal for them to be so dusty?
Yes. Dusty and they stop well. If dust is your concern, ceramics are good. If your brakes actually stopping well is the main concern, black magics.
Pretty much anything held against a high speed spinning iron disc is going to make dust. If the iron doesn't wear it away, it will wear the iron away. The only difference between a "low or no dust" pad and normal is simply the color of the dust. Lighter colors show up less giving the impression of lower dust.
So it is your experienced opinion that I can tell all my clients they can easily expect 180K out of their clutches?
You make a valid point about clutch wear and replacement cost, we just weigh the cost differently, some people probably don't consider it at all. I've been on both sides of this at points in my life. I think driving a manual and downshifting, double clutch, heel toe and all that is rewarding enough to justify the potential extra cost.
I did let somebody drive my old S2000 once and watched them just let out the clutch to spin up the engine from idle to about 8k slowing down, it was right after they jammed the syncros and made them suffer the same fate. He said something like, "it has tripple cone syncros" and all I could think was, "any idea how much tripple cone syncros cost to replace?"
I wouldn’t tell your clients anything about clutch life. Too many variables. Anybody can smoke a clutch in 1000 miles if they are trying to. My point was just that plenty of people can get 200k out of a TJ clutch, with downshifting or without.
This would be a good poll for the forum, I’d be curious if a larger sample size. I’d be pretty happy with anything over 120k as an arbitrary number.
TJ clutches are known to be long lasting from what I've seen online. I think most manual owners on here are probably still running the stock clutch. Mine at 189k could have been put back in, but the transmission was already out so we just swapped a new one in there. I'm on ~42k miles on the second clutch with no issues.
Anyone who wants to test BMB, come visit me in South Florida... You'll be testing them every chance you're behind the wheel.
And yes, they dust. As do my M6 brakes, M3 brakes before that, RS7 brakes before that etc etc. The shit just works, dust is a byproduct.
And yes, they dust. As do my M6 brakes, M3 brakes before that, RS7 brakes before that etc etc. The shit just works, dust is a byproduct.
Those of us who wash our jeeps occasionally never see BMB dust. 
I’ve never noticed anything abnormal dust wise from mineThose of us who wash our jeeps occasionally never see BMB dust.