Bronco vs. Wrangler

pagrey said:
Is that how it works with companies that are publicly traded on the stock market? It seems possible Toyota has more American owners than Ford based on who holds the stock. I haven't checked into the financial details of either company but assuming an owner gets some profit doesn't really make sense to me.
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Toyota's net income for the last fiscal year was 2.2 trillion, and their CEO was paid $1.9M in direct compensation.

I'd bet he had bonuses and stocks to pad that...in 2016 when I worked for Ingersoll Rand their CEO had about $20M in total compensation.

Either way, it's negligible against 2.2T. I'm with you...the fat cats at the top, even though they're making money almost incomprehensible to most of us, aren't even close to the bulk of where the money ends up. Whatever country has the most stockholders is where most of Toyota's profits are ending up, but their revenue the same year was $27.2T, meaning they spent $25T. There will be payroll in that, so where their facilities are located matters, but at that level of manufacturing, assembly labor is less than 10% of total cost, so most of it's going into the parts they're buying. So then you'd have to know where all their suppliers are to know where the profit went on that $25T.
 
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Man this is kinda tuff. I worked for a defense contractor and we can only use made in USA parts. Problem with that is 99% of the electronics we had to install were made in China lol. There is some BS way of getting around that. is the b2 bomber made in america HELL YA IT IS is the b2 made with parts from China HELL YEA IT IS but no one will contest it isnt made in America. Irony is china supplying parts that may come back to bomb them.

I would if most of the process IE 50.000000001% is done in the US and Sold by a US company than its made/assembled in the US. If you just say put a sticker on it and count that as final process but the 99% of the process was in mexico then its made in Mexico.


There is probably a legal definition and you know how those change and get "interpreted"
 
If you are wanting to support the US economy deff look into a companies production process for that item and see is this something that was imported and just buying it from a us Retailer. is there a comparable that a us company makes. Some times the us stuff is not marketed as well and you would never know there is a product with similarities you can purchase
 
Jeffseven777 said:
There is probably a legal definition and you know how those change and get "interpreted"
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There is. I used to know it, but it's been too long. I feel like it was based on percentage of cost - so you could pick a couple of expensive components to make in the US and then import 1000 little parts and still call it made in USA even though 99% of the number of components were imported, the 1% with domestic origin made up 50.1% of the cost (if that was the percentage).

So in theory, you could cast and machine the engine and transmission parts in the US, ship them out to be assembled into engines and transmissions, reimport them and assemble it into a car with frame and body from Mexico and electronics from China and put an american flag on it.
 
freedom_in_4low said:
If the engine, frame, transmission, body, and electrical components are all made in Mexico, then shipped to Flint and assembled, is it still made in the USA?

Final assembly is a tiny fraction of the total work content.
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a post in this thread earlier indicated something like 40-50% of parts of GM sierra class trucks are domestic in origin.. so no, not a tiny part. Also the 3000 or so workers in that plant probably wouldn't like you calling them tiny. :)
 
freedom_in_4low said:
Toyota's net income for the last fiscal year was 2.2 trillion, and their CEO was paid $1.9M in direct compensation.

I'd bet he had bonuses and stocks to pad that...in 2016 when I worked for Ingersoll Rand their CEO had about $20M in total compensation.

Either way, it's negligible against 2.2T. I'm with you...the fat cats at the top, even though they're making money almost incomprehensible to most of us, aren't even close to the bulk of where the money ends up. Whatever country has the most stockholders is where most of Toyota's profits are ending up, but their revenue the same year was $27.2T, meaning they spent $25T. There will be payroll in that, so where their facilities are located matters, but at that level of manufacturing, assembly labor is less than 10% of total cost, so most of it's going into the parts they're buying. So then you'd have to know where all their suppliers are to know where the profit went on that $25T.
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Sort of off topic, but the CEO of Toyota is actually making way less than his American counterparts. CEOs in Japan don't get paid like they do in the US. I think you could argue that giving your money to Toyota is better than GM or Ford in that regard, since your money isn't just going to buy the fat cat's their 16th yacht.
 
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chuck47 said:
Sort of off topic, but the CEO of Toyota is actually making way less than his American counterparts. CEOs in Japan don't get paid like they do in the US. I think you could argue that giving your money to Toyota is better than GM or Ford in that regard, since your money isn't just going to buy the fat cat's their 16th yacht.
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I wouldn't get too excited about their CEO

https://www.wsj.com/articles/frenchman-at-toyota-makes-nearly-triple-japanese-ceos-pay-1529943093
 
I have had five F150’s, only two were brand new. And they were both leases. When my last lease was up in ‘18 I looked a lot at the whole “made in America” aspect.

After watching tons of performance reviews and having my own internal “country of origin” debates I ended up buying a Nissan Titan. At the end of the day, Nissan is employing a ton of Americans to design and build that truck and I appreciated that.

Also, there’s not fuel saving nannies, turbos or cylinder deactivation which was a huge plus! This was my second Titan so I was very comfortable with the quality.
 
Bluovalguy said:
I have had five F150’s, only two were brand new. And they were both leases. When my last lease was up in ‘18 I looked a lot at the whole “made in America” aspect.

After watching tons of performance reviews and having my own internal “country of origin” debates I ended up buying a Nissan Titan. At the end of the day, Nissan is employing a ton of Americans to design and build that truck and I appreciated that.

Also, there’s not fuel saving nannies, turbos or cylinder deactivation which was a huge plus! This was my second Titan so I was very comfortable with the quality.
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Interesting. Recently, I parked next to a Titan XD at Home Depot. It had a FL disabled veteran license plate and several military/USA proud stickers on it. At the time I thought it was strange, but now I see maybe not.
 
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Viking Jeeper said:
Interesting. Recently, I parked next to a Titan XD at Home Depot. It had a FL disabled veteran license plate and several military/USA proud stickers on it. At the time I thought it was strange, but now I see maybe not.
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Yup, designed in California, engineered in michigan engines assembled in Tennessee and truck assembled in Mississippi.

In this global market, obviously a lot of parts are sourced from other countries, but there’s no way around that regardless what brand you choose.

That’s why it cracks me up when people rag on my “foreign” truck. Regardless of what badge is on it, a lot of American earned a living on it.
 
Bluovalguy said:
Yup, designed in California, engineered in michigan engines assembled in Tennessee and truck assembled in Mississippi.

In this global market, obviously a lot of parts are sourced from other countries, but there’s no way around that regardless what brand you choose.

That’s why it cracks me up when people rag on my “foreign” truck. Regardless of what badge is on it, a lot of American earned a living on it.
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No offense just adding to the discussion. "Devils advocate"

More arguable points to add.
The majority of the workers @ the nissan plant in Canton , MS don't earn a living wage. $15 hr production line jobs that are mircomanaged down to how many seconds it takes to do something.

If the U.S. hadn't allowed these "foreign" plants to be built here, then one could speculate that there would be more American made manufacturing plants.

Once again not ragging on you, just points that always come up in these arguments at work.

I owned 71' bronco, was excited about a comeback but feel like it missed the mark.
If I could buy a new one, I'd buy a rubicon
 
PNBLD said:
No offense just adding to the discussion. "Devils advocate"

More arguable points to add.
The majority of the workers @ the nissan plant in Canton , MS don't earn a living wage. $15 hr production line jobs that are mircomanaged down to how many seconds it takes to do something.

If the U.S. hadn't allowed these "foreign" plants to be built here, then one could speculate that there would be more American made manufacturing plants.

Once again not ragging on you, just points that always come up in these arguments at work.

I owned 71' bronco, was excited about a comeback but feel like it missed the mark.
If I could buy a new one, I'd buy a rubicon
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Well, as far as their wages, I can’t speak to that. That’s driven by air of factors, none of which I control. However, it’s still wages paid to Americans. If they are unhappy with that wage, they have options. But given that the population of Canton, MS is only a touch over 12,000 people, I’m guessing Nissan brought a lot of jobs that didn’t exist prior to them.

As for the plants taking up space that an American company might have used, I doubt that’s the case since many American factories moved production out of the US long before Nissan and Toyota moved into America production.

The old broncos are super nice! As for the new one, it’s growing on me. TFL did several videos last week on them and I really started to dig em.

If I was buying new, I think I’d go with it over the wrangler. I have a hard time trusting Jeep quality these days, and Stallantis isn’t doing much to bolster consumer confidence the way they are voiding so many “lifetime warranties” I keep reading about.
 
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Apparition said:
Titan ranks 31st in American content. Not even close to the big three trucks.
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Also, I think “not even close” isn’t really accurate. I’m sure depending on what site you look at you’re going to get varying information with varying degrees of accuracy.

https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2020/06/american-made-index-how-american-is-your-truck/
20AB528C-6E57-4362-89BB-69BA860A518E.png
 
DaveF said:
a post in this thread earlier indicated something like 40-50% of parts of GM sierra class trucks are domestic in origin.. so no, not a tiny part. Also the 3000 or so workers in that plant probably wouldn't like you calling them tiny. :)
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I didn't say domestic origin was a tiny part, I said final assembly. It's where they say the truck was "built" and it's where they take all those parts that were mostly made by other companies and put them together into a truck, and it tells you exactly zero about where the bulk of the product cost or work content is.
 
chuck47 said:
Sort of off topic, but the CEO of Toyota is actually making way less than his American counterparts. CEOs in Japan don't get paid like they do in the US. I think you could argue that giving your money to Toyota is better than GM or Ford in that regard, since your money isn't just going to buy the fat cat's their 16th yacht.
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yeah, that was pointed out in the article I found with his salary.

I think the Ingersoll Rand example I used had about $5M in actual salary at the time. Which is kinda crazy when you think of Toyota having $27T in revenue...Ingersoll Rand in 2016 was about $16B...so ONE THOUSAND TIMES smaller than Toyota, with 5x the salary. And both are paid less than some college football coaches.
 
freedom_in_4low said:
yeah, that was pointed out in the article I found with his salary.

I think the Ingersoll Rand example I used had about $5M in actual salary at the time. Which is kinda crazy when you think of Toyota having $27T in revenue...Ingersoll Rand in 2016 was about $16B...so ONE THOUSAND TIMES smaller than Toyota, with 5x the salary. And both are paid less than some college football coaches.
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That's 27T yen not dollars
 
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