Anyone here ever invented and patented anything jeep related or otherwise? I’ve invented a new Jeep product and am in need of some guidance and/or advice on how to proceed. Thought I’d reach out here as well as in real life...
Calling all inventors!
- Thread starter Tbird Clair
- Start date
I have gone down this road before, lawyer up.
Also be prepared to the Chinese to knock you off in every way possible.
@mrblaine has invented a ton of stuff. Not sure if he’s going to be the guy to give or advice on this, but I’m sure he has some idea.
Yep, even if your patents are perfect - the current rulenof thumb is 5 years MAX before all out competitivr Chinese cloning.
Search, search again, and then search some more for anything that may resemble your product. If there is not a version of it out there, get with some folks that understand the Jeep aftermarket and see if you can calculate the total quantity of the lifespan of the part. While doing so, do not share it with anyone, not even close friends.
Here is the rule of thumb regarding non disclosure agreements. If you produce one that will prevent folks from disclosure, they won't sign it because the penalties for disclosure even accidental disclosure are far too high. If you use a boilerplate NDA, read what the penalties for disclosure are.
Once you have an idea of the market size, then you have to figure out if your product can handle an amortized burden of around 20-30 grand to get it through the patent process and whether or not the market will still be there in a few years as you slog through the process.
Be aware that all the patent does is give you the right to spend more money to protect your intellectual property.
If it is like most products, refine it, nail down manufacturing to be as lean and cost effective within your quality level as possible, make a bazillion of them and sell them fast and furious. If it is good, it will be knocked off so get in and get out.
@mrblaine is spot on. We patent a large number of inventions at work...Our lawyer fees are ridiculous...and the only thing the Patent does is give you the option of spending MORE money to protect it when someone copies your idea. If its a truly patent-able idea, being first to market is usually good enough. Once you're out there, you have market advantage and others will have to tool up to catch up...takes them time.
Get some marketing information, find out what the real market will bear in terms of selling price and volume. Figure out how much it will cost to manufacture. Not a ballpark, but a real number, including mfg burden. I wouldn't produce ANYTHING with a gross profit of less than 50%. Maybe even higher if this is your first foray into manufacturing. One thing I can guarantee is that is will cost you WAY more than you thought to manufacture and distribute. If you start at 50% gross and know what your doing, you'll be doing good to actually put 20-30% profit in your pocket.
Get some marketing information, find out what the real market will bear in terms of selling price and volume. Figure out how much it will cost to manufacture. Not a ballpark, but a real number, including mfg burden. I wouldn't produce ANYTHING with a gross profit of less than 50%. Maybe even higher if this is your first foray into manufacturing. One thing I can guarantee is that is will cost you WAY more than you thought to manufacture and distribute. If you start at 50% gross and know what your doing, you'll be doing good to actually put 20-30% profit in your pocket.
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If I don't make any mistakes, if my packaging doesn't screw up, if the shippers don't screw anything up, I may realize a net profit of around 9-10% at the end of a year on all of our products combined. I start with a gross of about 45%.
To add to your manufacturing numbers, one needs to consult with someone very experienced in the various methods. Depending on the item, it may be hand fabricated, machine fabricated, sand cast and post processing done, investment cast and post processing done, or some combination thereof. Then there are a myriad of finishes if you have a metal product that needs to have a good appearance. The higher the appearance requirement, the more expensive the packaging is and the higher the handling costs are.
If it is a simple idea or product with good market appeal, it will get copied fast especially if it relatively inexpensive to produce. The saddest part about intellectual property theft is trying to educate the consumer as to why your original is better (if it is) and why the 10-20% cheaper knock-off should be avoided. Where that gets really crappy is on complex items that require lots of development money.
My skill is being able to take a concept and get it into first article status with very little development money spent and sometimes only one prototype, and a few changes after that to refine, a few more small changes to lower production cost and then into production. When I did the Super 88 kit for Superior, I mocked up one rough housing end, had that machined, bolted it onto the housing and then worked with the axle house to modify a drawing based on dimensions I took off the housing end and mock up axle. The prototype axle needed no changes, the housing end only needed the finish shape defined, and then I had to source a few off the shelf parts to complete it. I think development costs were less than 2500 bucks, which if anyone knows axle parts and kits, that is a mere pittance.
The sad part is the copy machine buys a complex part, reverse engineers it, and has next to zero development costs.
I deal mostly with plastic parts, so my numbers reflect those. Pretty expensive to get running, but operating costs are relatively cheap in comparison. Think tooling charges of 25-30K for a simple plastic part. Sometimes, you can roll that tooling charge into piece price, but very often...you cannot.
Dealing with steel and aluminum, I can see how your profit margin is eroded, but development costs can be much less expensive.
I think something else the OP needs to evaluate...Calculate how much money you will invest to get the idea off the ground, then look at your profit margin (net, not gross) and calculate your payback. Then, compare that to what you would make if you took that same amount of money and invested it in the stock market at say 8% return for that same amount of time. If the return on the product is higher, is it enough higher to mitigate the risk of developing a product and putting out for consumers to choose to buy or not? Its important to remember that there are a bunch of ways to grow your money.
The good news is we now have some awesome 3D printers and you can get a very good idea if your part is going to work before you dump 30 grand into a mold. I'm pretty familiar with injection mold tooling. I have a buddy who builds specialty scrapers for the aircraft industry. He started as a machinist who made his own molds, now he has injection equipment as well.
I don't do it for the money, I do it out of the need and desire to create stuff and solve problems. The money is secondary.
I figured you did it for the love and something other than money.
3d printers are VERY cool. We use them a bunch, just ordered another one, in fact. That technology has come so far in such a short time frame. The new production level machines are amazing. They are $$, but still cheaper than an IMM and a a couple molds to run in it. for low volume production, its going to be very easy to bring something to market...and also easy to copy
True but the outright theft of IP has taken a lot of the fun out of it.I figured you did it for the love and something other than money.
Trying to keep up with manufacturing technology is very difficult. The stuff they are doing with metal 3D is amazing. Valve bodies that control fuel with convoluted internal passages that can't be done effectively any other way. Even if you use high quality lost wax castings you still can't check to see if they are good without cutting them apart. Not something I want keeping my rocket with my ass strapped in it pointed the right direction.3d printers are VERY cool. We use them a bunch, just ordered another one, in fact. That technology has come so far in such a short time frame. The new production level machines are amazing. They are $$, but still cheaper than an IMM and a a couple molds to run in it. for low volume production, its going to be very easy to bring something to market...and also easy to copy
Digesting all of this... not particularly interested in manufacturing even though it could make me more... what about selling the idea to an existing manufacturer?
I patented a railroad crossing activation technology in 2003. Spent $25,000 on the patent. I didn't have any one illegally use my idea but if one had I would not have had the financial reserve to fund a lengthy lawsuit. If I could do it all over again, I would apply for a patent and label my product as "patent pending" then I would stop my patent efforts and rely on the patent pending only. When I first started out, $20,000 was a lot to not have for other purposes. Keep your business as lean as possible and if you start to make a profit, Save it! You will need it. All my best to you.
Remember the part about the NDA?
To understand how insidious that can be, I've walked through laser shops that also fabricate and assemble parts. I see lots of parts from companies that I recognize and some of it I should not be seeing. There are also some shops I've run into where I can have them build me items I see that others have paid development costs for. I would never do so but me asking sort of "on the sly" tells me how well they will protect my items.
I have developed lots of stuff for companies and "sold" them the product on spec in that I will develop the product and get it into first article status, I will teach them how to get the product built, hold their hand through the first production run and then take a small percentage of each sale. Based on past experiences across the board, I won't ever do it that way again. It has not once ever worked out in my favor over the long haul. I'm too trusting and expect folks to be different than they turn out to be.
Unfortunately the Patent Pending status expires in a very short amount of time and if you have someone like you or I who starts asking the right questions, it doesn't take long to discover the expiration.
That knowledge also makes you question when others put up something like a wobble stopper for steering and say it is patented. I've asked for the patent
number .....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................crickets.
Not really, just be aware of the pitfalls and get after it. Do you have a semi-accurate target price for the item?
No. I’m just in the concept phase. I am just now trying to find a good intellectual property lawyer. I don’t think I have much interest in being a part of the manufacturing or business end of it. Kind of just want to sell the idea to someone who can produce it... I really just want one and maybe a little royalty $$ (if that’s a thing)
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