Check engine light flashed while driving

Fulton_Hogan

TJ Enthusiast
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Joined
Nov 11, 2020
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497
Location
Florida
TLDR:
I experienced a flashing CEL while accelerating this morning. This happened twice during the initial part (less than 4 miles) of my morning commute. It only occurred as RPMs went over 3,000. The Jeep felt as if starving for fuel but did not choke out. Weather was low 60s and heavy, dense fog.

I understand that the CEL I saw is an alert notifying the driver that the vehicle is pushing raw fuel into the exhaust. It's not a good thing or something to ignore. I’m hoping some more background may help any armchair assessments.

Current Conditions:
The Jeep is an ’05 Unlimited, 6-speed manual and has 108,138 miles. It is not a daily driver, so it gets used intermittently; usually once or twice a week.

I have not recently changed any sensors or major mechanical items. FWIW, I changed oil on 19 Nov 2022 (Castrol High Mileage 10W-30 and Wix filter).

At two recent startups (today and last week) the initial starting RPM seemed ever so slightly higher before it settled into what I would consider “normal” startup RPM range. However, there has been no problems starting or normal idling. Normal (at temperature) idle is routinely lower than at inital startup.

I had traveled about 2 miles from the house when the first flashing CEL occurred as I merged onto another road. I noticed the starved feeling before the light began flashing. The second time occurred just under a mile later at another merge. Again, I noticed the starved feeling before the light triggered.

A quick scan of all gauges each time the CEL flashed showed normal ranges on electrical, oil pressure, and temperature (it may not have even reached full, operational temperature). I turned around at 4 miles into the trip to take it home, but neither the flashing CEL nor the starving feeling occurred again so I turned around and drove to work; 30 total miles.

A few minutes after arriving at work I opened the oil fill and checked internally; I did not see antifreeze in there. (As an aside, it is internally marked “Tupy”. That’s the good one, right?) I also checked for any stored codes and have none.

Maintenance Notes:
Back on 29 Mar 2020, at 102,600 miles I put in AutoLite Iridium XP plugs. At the time I noticed what looked like a crack on the coil rail almost centered between two of the coil packs. However, having never experienced problems with it, I reinstalled and let ride. Those plugs have been good to me up to this point.

In 2021, I replaced the oil pump drive assembly (OPDA) with a Crown unit on 17 Apr (104,915 miles) and then replaced the idle air controller (IAC) with a new Mopar unit on 30 May (105,655 miles). At the time of the IAC swap, I also removed and cleaned the throttle body. Vehicle has been relatively smooth at idle since.

Initial Thoughts:
Despite my inital panic, I’m trying to keep optimistic.

I mention the weather because it reminded me of the days when a crack in a distributor cap or along the plug wires would become very apparent in heavy-wet conditions (like rain or heavy fog) such as I had this morning. I’m entertaining that it may be the coil rail and thinking of starting there. I do not have a spare, so it would just be a “yup, it’s cracked” assessment, but at least I could then inspect the plugs. When looking for plug fouling; is there any specific plug to check, or a good description of what the plugs should NOT look like?

If I do need to replace the coil rail, I understand Mopar is preferred; however, if that is not available, what is the best alternative?

I’ve also been considering (based on reading other pages here) replacing all O2 sensors. The current set looks original, so they are most likely due for replacement. Should I just start there?

I thank the group for any guidance/advice you may offer up.
 
A flashing CEL usually means a misfire, but if it didn't store any codes, there's no way to be sure. Did you use the key trick or a code reader?

If you replace the coil, MOPAR or Blue Streak by Standard. I've been running the Blue Streak on my 06 for awhile as mine had over 200k mi on it and the boots were going.

If you replace the O2s, NTK brand or MOPAR which are made by NTK.

If they are original, you should at least replace the 2 upper ones.
 
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You really should check it with an OBDII reader to see what codes it stored. That will get you started on the right track. If you don't have one, most auto parts stores will read it for you, in hopes that you'll buy some parts there.
 
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Without having a code to work with its hard diagnosing without seeing it. If you have a crack in the coil rail I'd pull all the spark plugs and compare them. If they are different that can indicate a problem at that cylinder. Attached is a chart of common spark plug issues and causes.
You might also try looking at the coil rail in the dark and see if its arcing at the crack. I would also go back to NGK coppers and change them every 30k. They're not that hard to change and it gives you a look at what's going on inside the engine.

NGK-2013-Complete-NC_Page_207_1.jpg
 
A flashing CEL usually means a misfire, but if it didn't store any codes, there's no way to be sure. Did you use the key trick or a code reader?

If you replace the coil, MOPAR or Blue Streak by Standard. I've been running the Blue Streak on my 06 for awhile as mine had over 200k mi on it and the boots were going.

If you replace the O2s, NTK brand or MOPAR which are made by NTK.

If they are original, you should at least replace the 2 upper ones.

I did the key trick. I do have a OBD2 reader, but it's in my other car. I will have to get home before I can use it.

I've not even begun to check availability of the Mopar coil rail, but I think I have heard/seen the Blue Streak name or its come up in similar conversations. Thanks for the recommendation.

As for O2 sensors, I had NTK/NGK in a cart about a week or two ago, then didn't follow through with ordering. Go figure.
 
One other thought, if it cuts out during heavy acceleration, your fuel pump may be going out. It will feel sort of like hitting a rev limiter.

This was also a thought.

My tank was just over 1/4 full (closer to 1/4 than 1/2 full) when this happened. Right at that good 'suck up crud and get crazy' level.

That is very much what it felt like.
 
You really should check it with an OBDII reader to see what codes it stored. That will get you started on the right track. If you don't have one, most auto parts stores will read it for you, in hopes that you'll buy some parts there.

I bought one to help with a problematic Jetta. I had a stalling problem and thought it was the fuel filter and/or pump, both of which I replaced.

What I didn't know was that part of the ignition coil had gone bad, only firing 3 cylinders; that didn't help the Jetta's catalytic converter.

The coil, wires and plugs have long-been replaced, but the scanner stays in that vehicle's glove box to clear the (reoccuring) P0420 codes.
 
I think the MOPAR is available, but expensive. The BS is reasonable and has a lifetme warranty from Standard.

The OBDII reader might show a pending code.
 
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Without having a code to work with its hard diagnosing without seeing it. If you have a crack in the coil rail I'd pull all the spark plugs and compare them. If they are different that can indicate a problem at that cylinder. Attached is a chart of common spark plug issues and causes.
You might also try looking at the coil rail in the dark and see if its arcing at the crack. I would also go back to NGK coppers and change them every 30k. They're not that hard to change and it gives you a look at what's going on inside the engine.

View attachment 382915

Checking the rail for arcing is a good place to start, thank you, didn't think of that. Then I can get into the plugs.

I should probably look in there anyway, regardless of plug type. If I switched plugs at 30,000 miles, with my annual rate of mileage, I think it be over 15 (almost 16) years before I'd be looking in there.

BTW, that chart is...
 
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Update: I was unable to replicate the hesitation and flashing CEL during my commute home.

I filled the tank at the end of my trip and the Jeep is still getting good mileage, 16.2 MPG this tank. It's down a bit (the previous tank got 16.5 MPG) but I don't see that as too problematic at this point. New NK O2 sensors were ordered at Rock Auto. Supposedly they already shipped? We'll see.

Tomorrow I'll run the code scanner and then get a better look at the rail and plugs.

Thank you for reading and following up.
 
Check out my post here for a very similar condition at a very similar RPM. I ended up changing out the coil rail with a Mopar unit along with plugs and crank sensor with no change. In my case however the Jeep runs fine so I’ve been living with it and just keeping it under 3100 RPMs. I did finally track down a Mopar crank sensor but haven’t gotten around to installing it yet. Hope the O2 sensors fix your issue and I’ll be looking forward to an update.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...what-do-the-experts-think.62051/#post-1116962
 
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Check out my post here for a very similar condition at a very similar RPM. I ended up changing out the coil rail with a Mopar unit along with plugs and crank sensor with no change. In my case however the Jeep runs fine so I’ve been living with it and just keeping it under 3100 RPMs. I did finally track down a Mopar crank sensor but haven’t gotten around to installing it yet. Hope the O2 sensors fix your issue and I’ll be looking forward to an update.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...what-do-the-experts-think.62051/#post-1116962

I did read your thread, it was in the back of my mind the whole time I was waiting to get home.

The first thing I tried on my way home yesterday was replicating the problem. I was unable to do that. I got up over 3000 RPM without problem.

At least you are able to manage it with the sub-70 speed. Which for me would also be not much of an issue if I didn't get it figured out.
 
Update:
Today I've only been able to check codes and test a bit with my OBD2 scanner. It's given me some data that I think gives me some piece of mind and a way to proceed.

When I first plugged it in I had no CEL, but the scanner gave me a warning beep and yellow "warning" light. For my scanner, that's a pending, but not yet thrown, code. When I checked the pending code section it had a P0431 "Warm Up Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 2".

P0431code.jpg


While I was sitting there idling, I watched the live data off the O2 sensors as I ran the RPMs up and let them return to idle.

O2LiveData.jpg


While I was doing that monitoring, the code was finally thrown and the scanner changed its beeps and switched to the red "trouble" light. Here is the Freeze Frame of the data taken when it happened.

P0431FreezeFrame.jpg


I'll freely admit, I don't know all there is to know about those readouts. I believe that 1 is running leaner and 2 is running richer. I was at idle, so yeah.

The nice thing about this tool, it lets you check (some) onboard components. For the Jeep it seems like I have more capability here, because I had 29 different possibilities to test. (My VW doesn't let me do as many.) So I ran a check on all available components.

The first one that came up with a "Fail" status (STS) was "Catalyst 2/1 Switch Frequency Ratio".

Cat2-1SwitchFail.jpg


The other one that I had fail was "Purge Flow Monitor - Valve Fraction" something or other (it cut off in the photo).

PurgeFlowMonitorFail.jpg


All other 27 things check out as OK. I then used the scanner to clear the P0431 code.

Finally I ran the RPMs up over 3000K for a good bit, but could not replicate the stalling or get it to throw a new code.

Thoughts:
I'm still going to check the rail, but based on what I saw with the scanner/data, replacing the O2 sensors will definitely happen. I guess I should look for holes in the exhaust as well; most likely before swapping sensors.

I'm curious about the Purge Flow Monitor failure. If it is failing I believe I should expect to see a P0441, but I do not yet have one thrown or pending.

Those of you who do/know more with these things, am I on the right track? Or is my thinking way off?

Thanks all who read/reply.
 
I spent the afternoon under the Jeep.

No splits or holes in the exhaust that I could see. The pre-cat bolts all seemed tight.

I took off the coil rail to check for the crack I remembered seeing. Turns out it's cracked where the bolts go through to hold it to the engine.

20221211_193559.jpg


That is the worst one, as they all have some degree of cracking. Should this be a replacement item because of the cracks?

I pulled each plug, and (based on the chart @Jodh posted) they all looked "normal".

20221211_193624.jpg


I checked the gap on each, some seemed a litte too small. So I made sure I had them within the .035-.040 range.

Getting the coil rail reattached to the harness was a royal PITA, but its connector finally locked on.

After I reinstalled all the stuff I had removed to give myself space to work, I started it and checked if it would stumble or throw a code. Neither happened.
 
Rock Auto delivered yesterday, so I got to work early this morning.

Here's the "Before":

New Parts.jpg


Progress shots:

Bank 1 Sensor 1:
Old_New B1S1.jpg


Bank 2 Sensor 1:

Old_New B2S1.jpg


Bank 1 Sensor 2:

Old_New B1S2.jpg


Bank 2 Sensor 2:

Old_New B2S2.jpg



Closeup of Old Bank 1:

Old Bank 1.jpg


Closeup of Old Bank 2:

Old Bank 2.jpg


Team "Victory" Picture:

Task Complete.jpg


I sprayed each sensor with Free All earlier in the week and followed up with a little Kroil Thursday evening.

The battery was removed and when it was out, the positive and negative ends together so they would stay that way until I finished working.

I used the fatter end of the sensor wrench down toward the exhaust on each sensor. I figured that would minimize flex in the socket.

All my sensors came loose with a nudge. I was very lucky. After breaking all free and about 1/4 turn more on each, I was able to get most out with just my fingers.

Each sensor was removed and replaced one at a time. First the top sensors, followed by the bottoms.

The angles of the Bank 2 Sensor connectors made them a little tricky to remove, so a small shot of silicone at the connector edge helped get them free.

Once done underneath, I reinstalled the battery and reset the PCM; turned on power on (not starting), headlights on, then off, then powered off.

The Jeep started and idled great. I took it for a brief drive and noticed (perceived) better initial acceleration and a smoother idle.

Back home, I connected the OBD2 scanner and checked for codes. None thrown or pending, but the battery out and PCM reset contributed to this.

Checking each component showed all "OK". Even the Purge Flow Monitor that failed earlier passed this time. I'll keep an eye on it.
If I had to do an I/M test it is currently not ready, so I will check again after a few drives.

All total it was just about/over an hour's work.
 
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