Cold Case Radiators

[L J]

Nobody has a monopoly on either experience nor knowledge.

This is true. What is also true is that a certain 1% has more knowledge and experience than the 99% that includes you and me.

I’ll choose to seek my help from people who are here to be helpful, as opposed to people who are here for self-promotion and ego.

We certainly agree on that but those who may be perceived as curt and abrasive are actually just efficient and unwavering in passing along their knowledge, sharing their experience and cutting through the bullshit. It is much appreciated.

 

[C.J. Roberts]

This is true. What is also true is that a certain 1% has more knowledge and experience than the 99% that includes you and me.

We certainly agree on that but those who may be perceived as curt and abrasive are actually just efficient and unwavering in passing along their knowledge, sharing their experience and cutting through the bullshit. It is much appreciated.

You've also got to remember that they've had this conversion MANY times before. They've seen this subject discussed before. They've done the work.
Mr. Blaine has, by his admission, replaced MANY radiators over the years. he's found that Mopar rads simply work the best. But even the best is occasionally going to put out a bad one. Just like even the junk brands are occasionally put out a good one.
When Mr. Blaine or Jerry Bransford make a claim, it's backed by experience. If either one of them say it, as far as I'm concerned, they don't HAVE to lay out all of the gory details of HOW they come to that conclusion, I believe them.
This thread we're on now is a perfect example. This thread is 3 years old, and Mr. Blaine is STILL looking for a good replacement for Mopar rads.
I've read threads on this and other boards touting the praises of this or that radiator. But the examples given are only from one individual and his Jeep. I'd like to find a quality replacement too. The Muddog is 21 years old with 160,000 miles on it. I'm sure that I'm going to need one sooner or later, and I just don't have $350 to pay for one. If a suitable radiator could be found for, say, $200, I'd probably get one just to have on hand.
And if Mr. Blaine or Jerry suddenly pops up and says "I FOUND ONE!", that'll please me to no end.

 

[Dustdevil]

So, it appears our friends at Champion don’t get particularly good reviews from Amazon customers. As many 1and 2 star reviews as 5 star. 3.3 average. That’s not good. And not all that great about customer service in all cases. Sounds like they aren’t the only ones who sell the same product. If they are all that sketchy, it explains a lot. I will also be very interested in learning if anyone finds a premium radiator for the TJ platform, beyond the OEM solution.

 

[mrblaine]

I understand that. So, a three core radiator does not work? They are essentially boat anchors?

In the interest of education for our purposes, a radiator consists of two tanks, two headers, and 1 or more rows of tubes connected at the headers. The two headers with tubes are what constitutes the core. Fitment controls maximum core depth front to back.

Typically, the extra rows of tubes were stuffed into a similar core depth which added a space between the tubes front to back. That is a loss of tube to fin contact which generally means a loss in efficiency all other things being equal.

If your question then becomes does a 3 row not work as well? Then yes, they do not work as well due to the loss of the tube to fin contact and again, all other things being equal.

 

[mrblaine]

So, it appears our friends at Champion don’t get particularly good reviews from Amazon customers. As many 1and 2 star reviews as 5 star. 3.3 average. That’s not good. And not all that great about customer service in all cases. Sounds like they aren’t the only ones who sell the same product. If they are all that sketchy, it explains a lot. I will also be very interested in learning if anyone finds a premium radiator for the TJ platform, beyond the OEM solution.

We have been looking for several years now.

If you want to know the truth about reviews, look up the Dorman 924-270 and 271 on Amazon. The last time I looked, there were several glowing reviews of how well they fit. The problem with that is the impossibility to use them as they are packed in the box since they have mixed up parts between the side mounts and rear mounts so there is no way for them to work. No part of those two mounts for the rear and side locations can interchange.

 

[Dustdevil]

They all seem to have significant poor reviews. Got to be somebody who makes aluminum high performance radiators that will hold up to the typical TJ demands. Or who WILL make one, even if they don’t yet. Again, assuming the OEM will eventually fly the coop.

My issue is not immediate at all. But I can’t afford to be without the Jeep for weeks as some have experienced. I will soon be using it for search and rescue work, and it pretty much has to be available within a day or two. It also will have long periods of idle at times. I have replaced all suspension wear and tear parts, but haven’t needed to touch the drivetrain yet. It’s been very reliable. And I’m certainly not interested in $60k for a new one. So, when the time comes, I’ll rebuild the 4.0 and replace the 6 speed with an AX-15. Seems there are options for most of the other stuff.

 

[steelhd]

Again, assuming the OEM will eventually fly the coop.

Its already happened. There are a few laying around in dusty corners but not very many and the price is way up. A month or two ago I purchased one for way too much money and stashed it in the shop as a spare.

 

[psrivats]

Its already happened. There are a few laying around in dusty corners but not very many and the price is way up. A month or two ago I purchased one for way too much money and stashed it in the shop as a spare.

I bought a spare in 2019 and I thought it was a tad expensive at 268 shipped even back then. The same one now is over $400 shipped on RockAuto. That's just silly.

 

[C.J. Roberts]

I bought a spare in 2019 and I thought it was a tad expensive at 268 shipped even back then. The same one now is over $400 shipped on RockAuto. That's just silly.

What's a product worth? Whatever someone will pay for it.

 

[Mike_H]

I bought a spare in 2019 and I thought it was a tad expensive at 268 shipped even back then. The same one now is over $400 shipped on RockAuto. That's just silly.

I’m actually contemplating keeping my manual radiator as a backup, since I have the setrab cooler. I don’t know the wisdom of that, but it’s helpful that I don’t live in the desert.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Earlier in 2022 the price blipped up to $400 for a few weeks and people were reporting a discontinued status from dealers, and then some more must have showed up because the price went back to 250ish for whole before getting expensive and unavailable again and I jumped on it for 250. I also have a Mopar water pump and thermostat and a Hayden fan clutch to go in sooner than later but I'll probably wait on installing the radiator until mine is really done or I plan a trip where a failure would be particularly inconvenient.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Sounds like you need to be part of my proposed venture to manufacture some radiators.

At my last employer we were buying some water/glycol heat exchangers for HVAC equipment that were of similar style construction to our radiators. They'd be all aluminum but hopefully more reliable as the expected service life was in the 10-20 year range. They'd come without any mounting provisions but fortunately that would just be sheet metal which is a lot easier to source. I'll get in touch with a former coworker to refresh my memory on who the supplier was because it currently escapes me.

 

[mrblaine]

Earlier in 2022 the price blipped up to $400 for a few weeks and people were reporting a discontinued status from dealers, and then some more must have showed up because the price went back to 250ish for whole before getting expensive and unavailable again and I jumped on it for 250. I also have a Mopar water pump and thermostat and a Hayden fan clutch to go in sooner than later but I'll probably wait on installing the radiator until mine is really done or I plan a trip where a failure would be particularly inconvenient.

Did you look at the specs of that NAPA radiator? If so, does that make any sense?

 

[Dustdevil]

Earlier in 2022 the price blipped up to $400 for a few weeks and people were reporting a discontinued status from dealers, and then some more must have showed up because the price went back to 250ish for whole before getting expensive and unavailable again and I jumped on it for 250. I also have a Mopar water pump and thermostat and a Hayden fan clutch to go in sooner than later but I'll probably wait on installing the radiator until mine is really done or I plan a trip where a failure would be particularly inconvenient.

I dealt with Hayden Industrial quite a bit when I was in California. I wonder if Hayden Automotive would be interested in using their knowledge to build premium performance radiators for aftermarket, beginning with Jeep applications?

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Did you look at the specs of that NAPA radiator? If so, does that make any sense?

I think this reply was not intended for me because I can't figure out what napa has to do with my fortunate timing of buying a spare Mopar radiator.

 

[mrblaine]

I think this reply was not intended for me because I can't figure out what napa has to do with my fortunate timing of buying a spare Mopar radiator.

No, very much intended for you and I assumed that you were interested in solving this problem as much as anyone and as such based on lots of commentary from you regarding design and function of heat exchangers, I asked the above question. So again, earlier in this thread there is a link to a radiator from NAPA using "thin core" technology. Does that make any sense?

 

[freedom_in_4low]

No, very much intended for you and I assumed that you were interested in solving this problem as much as anyone and as such based on lots of commentary from you regarding design and function of heat exchangers, I asked the above question. So again, earlier in this thread there is a link to a radiator from NAPA using "thin core" technology. Does that make any sense?

Ah, ok. I'll find it and take a look when I can. Headed out to the new house to make sure the loft rails I just trimmed down will fit this time before I weld it together and have to cut it apart again.

 

[mrblaine]

Ah, ok. I'll find it and take a look when I can. Headed out to the new house to make sure the loft rails I just trimmed down will fit this time before I weld it together and have to cut it apart again.

View attachment 388515

Is that the mounting orientation?

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Is that the mounting orientation?

The most inconvenient possible orientation for having to precisely fit to an imprecise opening, yes.

 

[Mike_H]

The most inconvenient possible orientation for having to precisely fit to an imprecise opening, yes.

Keep at it. We did similar railings and I had to cut and tack, cut and tack, rinse and repeat to get them to fit. It turned out great though