Escape from Denver

If you're concerned about those angles, post it in a new thread where more people will see it. It gets lost in the build thread when you ask for help.

There is no SYE and CV driveshaft, so I can't comment on what the angles should be.
 
So I was able to escape from Denver yesterday on a test run to see if my rear drive shaft would explode and create a black hole... I managed to work into the wee hours Saturday night into Sunday with a highway test drive at 5am - which to my surprise yielded no drive-line vibes and perfect alignment! I think I can attribute a lot of that to proper checking and re-checking my work based on all the scary posts on this great website! 2 hours later with 45 minutes of sleep and I was on my way down to the Colorado Springs area for a break-in drive.

I ended up with .5 degree off parallel in the front and .75 degree off parallel in the rear (both measurements are in the direction of the 0-1 degree tolerance). I ended up dropping my transfer case 1/2" with combination of grade 8 and 5 hardware (5 for the washers doing the spacing, 8 for the bolt and washers holding the T-case up and squishing the spacers). This may or may not have been necessary but it made me feel more comfortable about the static rear driveshaft angle. Only on acceleration or constant uphill slugging do I feel any form of harmonic vibration that correlates to the drive-line rpms. I just go a gear high when possible to reduce the higher available torque from minute drive-pedal angle changes. This tends to make the drive-line hum reduce in intensity.

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For those that bash into stuff and lay the rear down on the gas tank a lot- I have a 2000 wrangler and I'm wondering if I should consider upgrading the gas tank skid pronto before Moab? I came down on it pretty hard a few times yesterday but it seems to actually be pretty tough - I read a few posts on this site that talk about Jeep upgrading the gas tank skid to a more HD solution sometime around 1999 or 2000. Is there any way to verify if I have the more HD gas tank skid - and if so should I be fine to beat it up a little more or am I at risk of denting it and damaging the oversize tank I have? (original owner spec'd this jeep to have the +5gal option so it sounds like it's a little bigger than the stock tanks).

Other than that - it seems that the rear lower control arm mounts and the front bumper are the lowest hanging fruit for me to bash into. When doing shelf ledges taller than the front bumper it's hard to angle in if the trail doesn't have enough width... and when getting the front wheels up onto the ledge it seems the rear LCA frame mounts are the most prone to get hit when trying to wheel up with the rear wheels. Surprisingly the 1/2" dropped T-Case only hit when falling off a line I tried to hit and had a little too much mud. I have a steering box skid that I will be installing pronto... it's way to convenient to place in harms way on shelves and ledges.

Love the primitive traits of the TJ with the refinement over the older jeeps and XJ's. It's truely a fun jeep to trail ride and has exactly what I wanted after selling my JK - less of an 'electric hand' feel and more mechanical!
 
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For those that bash into stuff and lay the rear down on the gas tank a lot- I have a 2000 wrangler and I'm wondering if I should consider upgrading the gas tank skid pronto before Moab? I came down on it pretty hard a few times yesterday but it seems to actually be pretty tough - I read a few posts on this site that talk about Jeep upgrading the gas tank skid to a more HD solution sometime around 1999 or 2000. Is there any way to verify if I have the more HD gas tank skid - and if so should I be fine to beat it up a little more or am I at risk of denting it and damaging the oversize tank I have? (original owner spec'd this jeep to have the +5gal option so it sounds like it's a little bigger than the stock tanks).

Other than that - it seems that the rear lower control arm mounts and the front bumper are the lowest hanging fruit for me to bash into. When doing shelf ledges taller than the front bumper it's hard to angle in if the trail doesn't have enough width... and when getting the front wheels up onto the ledge it seems the rear LCA frame mounts are the most prone to get hit when trying to wheel up with the rear wheels. Surprisingly the 1/2" dropped T-Case only hit when falling off a line I tried to hit and had a little too much mud. I have a steering box skid that I will be installing pronto... it's way to convenient to place in harms way on shelves and ledges.

Not sure on the gas tank, I got rid of mine years ago. Though if you start running some of CO harder trails an ugraded skid is a good idea. Savvy has one that raises the tank with a body lift. Its incredibly light too. Make your front bumper a stubby, that will give you good approach angles.
 
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In Denver too...downtown so you can imagine that garage space is only a fantasy and really very jealous of your ability to weld... Very cool, look forward to your project.
 
Not sure on the gas tank, I got rid of mine years ago. Though if you start running some of CO harder trails an ugraded skid is a good idea. Savvy has one that raises the tank with a body lift. Its incredibly light too. Make your front bumper a stubby, that will give you good approach angles.

@tworley when you say you got ride of yours years ago did you completely remove the gas tank and go with a smaller inboard fuel cell? I could probably deal with a few less gallons of gas but I do like the idea of being able to drive this all over our great state and not constantly refill haha - I won't be trailering it in the foreseeable future

@GoGeo Thanks sir! I very much enjoy finally being able to take out my welding setup after keeping it in a shipping crate for the last 5 years! The garage was mainly a fantasy for me as well - and the thought of having to settle on a 70's era single car ticky tacky shack in most of the metro area was one that I nearly settled on until I stumbled upon my house in need of gut-level renovation in Littleton!

I have some spicer 5-1310x's on the way to beef up my rear drive shaft and hold me over until I can do a proper tummy tuck + SYE + DCV setup. I was very surprised and relieved to finally test drive my Jeep in 4Lo this weekend. Coming off my JKUR with the 4:1 TC and 4.10 gears on 35s I was scared that the 2.72:1 TC and 3.73 gears on my TJ were gonna be way too high... nope! Mighty I6 and 32in tires keep me in check just fine combined with the lightweight TJ! - I never felt like I couldn't go slow enough.

I now feel plenty comfortable that with a 4.88 regear and some 33.8" tires (285/75R17) I should be doing just fine for a long time with my stock transfer case reduction ratio - plus with the lower axle ratio I might even be able to hit 70 on the highway again! It's just one less thing I have to empty my pockets for and that makes me feel good about acquiring this project car and trying to keep everything on the cheap!
 
@tworley - Nice! I think I'm sold on the Savvy skid for the gas tank based on all the great remarks I've heard on this site. I just ordered a MORE front engine/oil/trans skid on the way right now - looking forward to being rock proof soon.
 
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The garage was mainly a fantasy for me as well - and the thought of having to settle on a 70's era single car ticky tacky shack in most of the metro area was one that I nearly settled on until I stumbled upon my house in need of gut-level renovation in Littleton!

We tried to get into Littleton but couldn’t stomach the updates needed in our price range nor the cheap flips. And ended up in the Ranch (though technically we are “Littleton” somehow)...
 
@rasband which 'Ranch? I am technically in Ken Caryl Ranch somehow... just on the border and all the valley folk like to challenge when we say we're from it haha. The HOA actually isn't all that bad here

Highlands Ranch, we are in the older part on the east side - so bigger trees and no sub-associations. We mostly centered around where we want our kids to grow up/go to school/etc.
 
Managed to get most of the way through the build for Moab and took a moment to step back and appreciate the build thus far.

I just wanted to say I've learned more new maintenance skills on this build than just about any other car project I've ever done! From universal joints to axle bearings, drilling holes places I normally wouldn't, bleeding brakes on a car and finally doing an alignment at 3am and having it turn out so well I actually enjoy driving this jeep down the highway - this has been a great vehicle to really embrace my inner DIY fiend vs. buying 90%+ complete lift kits and taking the vehicle to the garage for simple things.

Some before and afters below:

Side
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Right now I'm on 32" tires (255/75R17) with a 3" spring lift + 1.25" body lift. I plan on keeping the suspension stock for a good while now - I should be able to accommodate the max tire size I want without issue (~34" - 285/75R17).

I ended up throwing in some Spicer 5-1310x universal joints in the rear drive shaft so that it has a fresh fighting chance at it's current lifted drive-line angles.

Spicer 5-1310x u-joints freshly pressed into the stock rear driveshaft
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For the rock rails I was able to customize a set of the $150 eBay ones that normally use the body pucks to sandwich it against the tub and I instead put in 3x 1/2-13 threaded rivet nuts in the tub between the rear two cabin body mounts so that it could be a little more secure. To do this I had to trim them a little bit with the plasma cutter so that they didn't extent as far towards the body mounts. I'm much more comfortable having an extra 3/16" of steel between rocks and the tub now!

Cheap-o rock rail customization collage
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I'll focus on building up a set of axles as cheaply as possible and my goal is 4.88 gears so I can stick with the 2.72:1 NP231 transfer case. A gas tank skid is probably the next thing I'll do - My M.O.R.E. engine oil pan skid is on the way and should be here in a day or so - rounding out my 'Stage 1' build for this vehicle's maiden voyage to Moab.
 
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Any tips on doing the mml? I'm popping mine in sometime when this snow melts.

Get a buddy to come over and help you! Having someone man the floor jack made it a very simple process. It will require minute height adjustments to get everything to fit just right. It's not rocket surgery and you can probably convince them with a free beer or two haha.

I have the I-6 motor and we first loosened the motor mounts themselves. The one bolt is a simple bolt that screws into the frame - you can get that one with an impact from the top. The other bolt is a single ended stud that you'll have to get to under the jeep.

If you go with a simple 1" aluminum block style MML like I did the stud end gets the extension - make sure you attach that one well - I used blue gel lock tite just to be sure. The other side gets a longer replacement bolt - careful not to cross-thread that when you re-install it. You'll be shimmy'ing the engine around a bit to get things to thread cleanly. I did end up cross-threading the driver side one... not too happy about that - 1 of only 2 bolts on the jeep that are x-threaded.
 
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I read a few posts on this site that talk about Jeep upgrading the gas tank skid to a more HD solution sometime around 1999 or 2000. Is there any way to verify if I have the more HD gas tank skid - and if so should I be fine to beat it up a little more or am I at risk of denting it and damaging the oversize tank I have?
As a "For what it's worth" regarding the OE gas tank skids, here is something I've posted before (though it sounds like you'll be going to an aftermarket skid, it does answer your question about original gas tank skids)...


***For those of you who have never had the opportunity to compare the differences between the early OEM gas tank skids ('97 to '02, though there is some debate about the last year of the early style) and the late-model ones, I offer up some pics for you to see. As far as the material thickness goes, my '98's is .075" thick, while the later one is .085" thick. While the .010" difference doesn't seem like much, I can say that the extra stamped "ribs" or channels in the later ones definitely aid in the rigidity of the skid. Also, the one-piece stamping of the later ones is much stronger than the welded-on pieces the earlier ones had. Additionally, the earlier skids are completely open on the driver's side, whereas the later ones encase the fuel tank. I paid $45 for the later one, including the straps.

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Get a buddy to come over and help you! Having someone man the floor jack made it a very simple process. It will require minute height adjustments to get everything to fit just right. It's not rocket surgery and you can probably convince them with a free beer or two haha.

I have the I-6 motor and we first loosened the motor mounts themselves. The one bolt is a simple bolt that screws into the frame - you can get that one with an impact from the top. The other bolt is a single ended stud that you'll have to get to under the jeep.

If you go with a simple 1" aluminum block style MML like I did the stud end gets the extension - make sure you attach that one well - I used blue gel lock tite just to be sure. The other side gets a longer replacement bolt - careful not to cross-thread that when you re-install it. You'll be shimmy'ing the engine around a bit to get things to thread cleanly. I did end up cross-threading the driver side one... not too happy about that - 1 of only 2 bolts on the jeep that are x-threaded.
Good to know it may be a more manageable task in my parking lot than I may be imagining. I've got the 1" MORE mounts so I'm replacing the entire mount. In just waiting for it to stop being so winter. Did you notice much change at the pinion angle after install? I've got adjustable arms but anytime I can leave those alone, is good for me.
 
Good to know it may be a more manageable task in my parking lot than I may be imagining. I've got the 1" MORE mounts so I'm replacing the entire mount. In just waiting for it to stop being so winter. Did you notice much change at the pinion angle after install? I've got adjustable arms but anytime I can leave those alone, is good for me.


I wish I could say that the 1" MML was the golden bullet for the pinion angle but in all honesty it wasnt until I dropped my Tcase 1/2" and then adjusted the rear arms a bunch that I got my pinion angle set.

The MORE mounts look great - I went the cheap route and got a combo 1.25" BL with 1" MML from a guy on Ebay that makes them. My stock motor mounts looked not bad at all and I figured that they would be good for my purposes.

That said, with a helper and the MORE MML mounts - it should save you a few minutes because you won't have to thread the studs on like I did to the stock motor mounts. New parts are always good cheap insurance too!

As a "For what it's worth" regarding the OE gas tank skids, here is something I've posted before (though it sounds like you'll be going to an aftermarket skid, it does answer your question about original gas tank skids)...

Thanks for this write up! It looks like I have the thinner/older version with the drivers side cut out.
 
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@rasband which 'Ranch? I am technically in Ken Caryl Ranch somehow... just on the border and all the valley folk like to challenge when we say we're from it haha. The HOA actually isn't all that bad here

Similar to my situation, one street over is Lakewood but somehow we have a Morrison address, I'll take it though!
 
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I wish I could say that the 1" MML was the golden bullet for the pinion angle but in all honesty it wasnt until I dropped my Tcase 1/2" and then adjusted the rear arms a bunch that I got my pinion angle set.

The MORE mounts look great - I went the cheap route and got a combo 1.25" BL with 1" MML from a guy on Ebay that makes them. My stock motor mounts looked not bad at all and I figured that they would be good for my purposes.

That said, with a helper and the MORE MML mounts - it should save you a few minutes because you won't have to thread the studs on like I did to the stock motor mounts. New parts are always good cheap insurance too!

Good to know! I dont have any pinion angle problems, I have full adjustable arms and Tom Woods shaft that's set up for my 4" lift. I guess to clarify my question, how much in degrees did the MML alter the pinion angle over what it was prior to the mml, if you know that information. Ideally, I raise up about 1 to 2 degrees in the front and lower 1 to 2 degrees in the rear. For me, MMl and BL is to solve for 35" tire clearance and for a future tuck.
 
Good to know! I dont have any pinion angle problems, I have full adjustable arms and Tom Woods shaft that's set up for my 4" lift. I guess to clarify my question, how much in degrees did the MML alter the pinion angle over what it was prior to the mml, if you know that information. Ideally, I raise up about 1 to 2 degrees in the front and lower 1 to 2 degrees in the rear.

It was in the 1 to 2 degree realm from what I remember. I didnt record any before angle measurements on paper unfortunately - the 1" MML was a no brainer for my build because I want to eventually do a tummy tuck and proper SYE/DC setup for the rear for the ultimate TJ setup.
 
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It was in the 1 to 2 degree realm from what I remember. I didnt record any before angle measurements on paper unfortunately - the 1" MML was a no brainer for my build because I want to eventually do a tummy tuck and proper SYE/DC setup for the rear for the ultimate TJ setup.
Any chance you ever make it out to my neck of the woods? We have miles and miles of fun forest roads that are great places to play with your tj and not worry too much about breaking things.