EV thread
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Clean diesel is the answer, but it is a tough sell in the US where diesel is still a dirty word. I believe the clean diesel technology we know today is in it's infancy and the future will bring even cleaner results with minimal technological problems. I belong to a Diesel Technology Forum https://dieselforum.org/advanced-diesel-technology that brings all the latest news and updates to me, but all of this positive clean diesel news is strangely unknown to the vast majority who seem to believe we can keep the supply chain running on electricity.
Diesel has always been the answer as far as I'm concerned - but thanx to GM and VW, they don't do well in America. I'd like to see a Diesel-electric hybrid too.
EV's are far more polluting than ICE vehicles.
Here is a little facts that the Idiots in charge do not talk about:
Then there are the hidden costs, the costs you have to dig a little deeper to find. For example, for each EV auto battery, one must process 25,000 pounds of brine for lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. When it is all added, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust for just ONE battery.
Let's examine the mine at Jiangxi, China. The workers use ammonium sulfate poured into big holes to dissolves the clay. The strong ammonium fumes are very damaging to the lungs of the workers, but that is par for the course for Chinese treatment of laborers. Using a number of other noxious, toxic, cancer-causing chemicals, the sludge is processed to remove the just 0.2% rare metals, with the remaining 99.8% contaminated toxic material being dumped back into the originally created hole. It is stated that, "many of these rare earth mining processes also unleash plumes of sulfur dioxide," a toxic gas, into the atmosphere. Of course people have concerns for aquatic life in nearby rivers and streams.
Then there is all the lithium that you need. One of the places for obtaining vast amounts of lithium is the Atacama Desert in Chile. This area is filled with subterranean aquifers, which are reserves of fresh water. They need lots of brine (salt water) to refine the lithium, but that is no problem, for they have discovered salt water brine below the fresh water aquifers. So in an area where fresh water is precious, they are jeopardizing the fresh water system by drilling through it to get to the needed brine, so we can make our EVs to save the planet. It is stated that there is a weight of evidence, such as "shrinking pasturelands, failing crops, disappearing flora and fauna," that all point to a process of desertification, which is being exacerbated by lithium extraction. It is stated, "the impact of disturbing a 'huge complex hydrological system' is not visible from one day to the next," but the lithium mining and the desertification "are interlinked without any doubt."
Here is a little facts that the Idiots in charge do not talk about:
Then there are the hidden costs, the costs you have to dig a little deeper to find. For example, for each EV auto battery, one must process 25,000 pounds of brine for lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. When it is all added, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust for just ONE battery.
Let's examine the mine at Jiangxi, China. The workers use ammonium sulfate poured into big holes to dissolves the clay. The strong ammonium fumes are very damaging to the lungs of the workers, but that is par for the course for Chinese treatment of laborers. Using a number of other noxious, toxic, cancer-causing chemicals, the sludge is processed to remove the just 0.2% rare metals, with the remaining 99.8% contaminated toxic material being dumped back into the originally created hole. It is stated that, "many of these rare earth mining processes also unleash plumes of sulfur dioxide," a toxic gas, into the atmosphere. Of course people have concerns for aquatic life in nearby rivers and streams.
Then there is all the lithium that you need. One of the places for obtaining vast amounts of lithium is the Atacama Desert in Chile. This area is filled with subterranean aquifers, which are reserves of fresh water. They need lots of brine (salt water) to refine the lithium, but that is no problem, for they have discovered salt water brine below the fresh water aquifers. So in an area where fresh water is precious, they are jeopardizing the fresh water system by drilling through it to get to the needed brine, so we can make our EVs to save the planet. It is stated that there is a weight of evidence, such as "shrinking pasturelands, failing crops, disappearing flora and fauna," that all point to a process of desertification, which is being exacerbated by lithium extraction. It is stated, "the impact of disturbing a 'huge complex hydrological system' is not visible from one day to the next," but the lithium mining and the desertification "are interlinked without any doubt."
OP
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1139533_survey-growing-portion-of-us-shoppers-are-rejecting-evs
Despite strong EV sales growth, the ratio of U.S. car shoppers uninterested in buying an EV is increasing, according to a new J.D. Power survey.
"Top-line metrics on overall EV market share, availability and affordability have been on a long-term upward trend," J.D. Power said in a statement, "but beneath those headline numbers we are starting to see some consumer behaviors that suggest a possible bifurcation of the automotive marketplace."
J.D. Power's data show the number of shoppers "very unlikely" to consider an EV purchase in the next 12 months reached 21% in March. That's up 2% from the month before and the highest "very unlikely" response J.D. Power had ever seen.
EV purchase consideration trends - J.D. Power
Price and charging were the biggest reasons survey respondents rejected EVs. Of those "very unlikely" and "somewhat unlikely" to consider an EV, 49% cited both "lack of charging station availability" and "purchase price" as reasons for their disinterest in EVs. "Limited driving distance per charge" and "time required to charge" were also frequently cited, with 43% and 41% of respondents, respectively, listing them as factors in avoiding an EV purchase.
2023 Hyundai Ioniq 6
On pricing, J.D. Power pointed to the continued confusion over the federal EV tax credit and its tighter requirements, which the firm argues impacts affordability but reduces the number of qualifying EVs. EV prices themselves are also quite volatile at the moment, which could also be dissuading consumers.
On charging, J.D. Power has found in previous studies that customers are much more satisfied with the Tesla Supercharger network, although they've soured a bit with home charging due to surging home electricity prices, mainly in the Northeast.
7-Eleven 7Charge EV fast-charging station
However, it's worth remembering that these findings come in the context of strong EV sales growth. EVs represented 7.3% of all U.S. new-car sales in March, according to J.D. Power. That's down from 8.5% in February, but still a big increase from EVs' 2.6% market share in February 2020.
And while this survey indicates EV holdouts may be digging in their heels, the general attitude toward EVs and EV policy appears remarkably positive. Although the policy itself might be political, polls have repeatedly found that the ideas behind the policy—and EV adoption itself—isn't so partisan.
Despite strong EV sales growth, the ratio of U.S. car shoppers uninterested in buying an EV is increasing, according to a new J.D. Power survey.
"Top-line metrics on overall EV market share, availability and affordability have been on a long-term upward trend," J.D. Power said in a statement, "but beneath those headline numbers we are starting to see some consumer behaviors that suggest a possible bifurcation of the automotive marketplace."
J.D. Power's data show the number of shoppers "very unlikely" to consider an EV purchase in the next 12 months reached 21% in March. That's up 2% from the month before and the highest "very unlikely" response J.D. Power had ever seen.
EV purchase consideration trends - J.D. Power
Price and charging were the biggest reasons survey respondents rejected EVs. Of those "very unlikely" and "somewhat unlikely" to consider an EV, 49% cited both "lack of charging station availability" and "purchase price" as reasons for their disinterest in EVs. "Limited driving distance per charge" and "time required to charge" were also frequently cited, with 43% and 41% of respondents, respectively, listing them as factors in avoiding an EV purchase.
2023 Hyundai Ioniq 6
On pricing, J.D. Power pointed to the continued confusion over the federal EV tax credit and its tighter requirements, which the firm argues impacts affordability but reduces the number of qualifying EVs. EV prices themselves are also quite volatile at the moment, which could also be dissuading consumers.
On charging, J.D. Power has found in previous studies that customers are much more satisfied with the Tesla Supercharger network, although they've soured a bit with home charging due to surging home electricity prices, mainly in the Northeast.
7-Eleven 7Charge EV fast-charging station
However, it's worth remembering that these findings come in the context of strong EV sales growth. EVs represented 7.3% of all U.S. new-car sales in March, according to J.D. Power. That's down from 8.5% in February, but still a big increase from EVs' 2.6% market share in February 2020.
And while this survey indicates EV holdouts may be digging in their heels, the general attitude toward EVs and EV policy appears remarkably positive. Although the policy itself might be political, polls have repeatedly found that the ideas behind the policy—and EV adoption itself—isn't so partisan.
I would be interested in a solar panels net metering setup + plug-in hybrid if they were competitive enough with the gassers, but it's hard to guess if I'd save the 10-15k purchase price difference by using less gas. I'd lean no based on how little I drive.
There is also the logistics of mining all of the resources necessary to meet the present goals. The video is 6 minutes long but very informative. I also included a snapshot of the chart listing what is needed and how long it would take to obtain at recent mining rates. Note that estimates for some are in the thousands of years.
2012 volt. Past few years around 20k/year (long trips each weak) and I was getting 75mpg. Commute changed and it's looking like 12k/y now and much less running on gas.
I'm a bit of a nerd but naw, I don't look at $/mi as doesn't really affect my decisions. What I did was convert charging cost to gas price, to see if it's better to charge or just run on gas. At home it's $0.10/kwh or so, which is about like getting a gallon of gas for a little under $1. A good deal.
I looked at a pay-to-charge station, and using that would be like buying gas at something like $4 or $5 per gallon. No point when gas is 3.xx.
I'm a bit of a nerd but naw, I don't look at $/mi as doesn't really affect my decisions. What I did was convert charging cost to gas price, to see if it's better to charge or just run on gas. At home it's $0.10/kwh or so, which is about like getting a gallon of gas for a little under $1. A good deal.
I looked at a pay-to-charge station, and using that would be like buying gas at something like $4 or $5 per gallon. No point when gas is 3.xx.
OK so my nerdiness kicked in and I did some math. Over ~5 years I've put 100k miles on it, averaging ~76 mpg.
Assuming gas averaged $4/gal.
Adding in electricity costs, while gas was $4 I was effectively paying $2.50. Energy cost total savings of ~$4,000 over the 100K miles.
My commute changed late last year and I'm getting much better mileage now.
Assuming gas averaged $4/gal.
Adding in electricity costs, while gas was $4 I was effectively paying $2.50. Energy cost total savings of ~$4,000 over the 100K miles.
My commute changed late last year and I'm getting much better mileage now.
That is a good average difference. Have you noticed any battery/range degradation over those 5 years? What's your $/kwh where you live? Any solar panels?
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
Robert Bryce at his Substack on May 3 collects some recent information as to Ford:
In March, Ford Motor Company announced that it lost $2.1 billion on its EV business last year. Those losses were double the losses it had on EVs in 2021. As I noted in a video I posted on TikTok on March 23, Ford made 61,575 EVs in 2022. Thus, the company lost about $34,000 on every EV it sold last year. I also noted that the costs of making EVs aren’t falling. Last year, the cost of battery packs for EVs went up by 7%. . . . Indeed, it appears Ford’s 2022 losses were only a warm-up lap. Yesterday afternoon, Ford reported a $722 million loss on its EV business over the first three months of 2023. During that span, Ford sold 10,866 EVs, meaning it lost $66,446 on every EV it sold.
Bryce goes on to quote a JD Power report from May 1: “[M]any new vehicle shoppers are becoming more adamant about their decision to not consider an EV for their next purchase.”
In March, Ford Motor Company announced that it lost $2.1 billion on its EV business last year. Those losses were double the losses it had on EVs in 2021. As I noted in a video I posted on TikTok on March 23, Ford made 61,575 EVs in 2022. Thus, the company lost about $34,000 on every EV it sold last year. I also noted that the costs of making EVs aren’t falling. Last year, the cost of battery packs for EVs went up by 7%. . . . Indeed, it appears Ford’s 2022 losses were only a warm-up lap. Yesterday afternoon, Ford reported a $722 million loss on its EV business over the first three months of 2023. During that span, Ford sold 10,866 EVs, meaning it lost $66,446 on every EV it sold.
Bryce goes on to quote a JD Power report from May 1: “[M]any new vehicle shoppers are becoming more adamant about their decision to not consider an EV for their next purchase.”
And the plot thickens, Warren Buffet has been investing heavily in oil: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...ts-company-has-bet-over-45b-on-the-oil-sector
OP