You're probably right - although it should be possible to build a car for that price or less - but nobody will and few would buy it other than weirdos like me.
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- Thread starter Apparition
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You're probably right - although it should be possible to build a car for that price or less - but nobody will and few would buy it other than weirdos like me.
Apparition
Sand Hollow '26 beginner trails in the books
Original poster
Supporting Member
Ride of the Month Winner
Which means they could be built/sold for under $15K if they got rid of the bullshit. But they won't.
By bullshit do you mean a radio, air conditioning, power locks and windows, keyless entry, and power steering?
I'm confused at the 'bullshit' part.
If I'm paying $20,000 for a BRAND NEW MODERN 2024 vehicle, I want every ounce of modern 'bullshit' they'll give me.
Heat my ass-cheeks, my steering wheel, and keep my soda cold at the same time.
or, just don't buy a modern 2024 vehicle.
Problem solved.
And the the average new car price is $48K. Always thought my first new vehicle would be a Jeep Wrangler, but it's looking more like a used Lexus GX460 now. I don't think I can stomach spending $52K for a new wrangler.
Definitely keeping it longer smooths out the edges of paying for new, if I'm buying used it'll compress the timeline to a purchase maybe every 7 years instead of 10, seems like a wash cost-wise.
Really two things always kept me from buying slightly used, first there's been very little difference in price between those and new, at least for Japanese cars, so the savings have never been significant enough to warrant it for me. This doesn't so much apply if you're looking at Chevys & such where the value drops like a rock. Also, this issue has gotten far worse since the world flipped on its ass a few years ago, in a lot of cases slightly used came with a slightly higher price than new... I still roll through the local Honda dealership lot periodically to keep my finger on the pulse of what's happening with them, their 'certified pre-owned' cars, generally 3 years old with 36k+/- miles, are still being listed at damn near original msrp, it's absurd. I don't know what they're actually getting for them however.
Second thing is any small savings I might get doesn't trump loss of part/all of the warranty and maybe more importantly lemon law protections. There is an element of risk buying any car, new or used, that it'll be a shitbucket but if I pull that unlucky straw I want every remedy possible including getting out of it altogether with no out of pocket losses.
definitely the days of car lots packed with cars in the low 20s are gone, but there are still some in the higher 20s. Median price means nothing to me other than half the jackasses on the planet spend more than that. In all my years of buying low 20s cars the median price was probably still over 30k.
I think the bullshit part he may be referring to is the 25 inch i-Phone integrated Dave & Busters level infotainment touchscreen mounted on the dash along with 8 cameras, warning sensors, eye-sight & other such systems that overload vehicles these days.
I don't think you'll have to worry about getting any of this in a $20,000 brand new vehicle.
Oh trust me, I'm not buying anything new ever again unless they simply STOP forcing this effete crap onto people who do NOT want it. I don't want to buy it, I don't want to deal with it, I don't want to maintain it, and I don't want to pay for it (AGAIN!) when it breaks which it will. Obsolete in 5 years, broken in 10, and unrepairable at any price in 15. No thank you. I'll just keep my old junk running - my car is in the shop today getting some pressed in front end bushing replaced. At 337K.
Unfortunately, this isn't entirely true. It is impossible to the best of my knowledge to buy a vehicle without a damn touchscreen "infotainment" system that is wired so deep into the car that its impossible to get rid of. Partial exception is (apparently) Mazda who still uses screens, just not touch screens which is a minor improvement.
But yea, I don't want power anything, computerized anything, leather seats or other effete crap. The only touch screen I'll accept is on a $150 Garmin GPS which isn't wired into the car and can be tossed and replaced cheaply and quickly should it fail - which I have had to do that once. Touch screen makes some sense on such a device, it sure as Hell doesn't to operate the HVAC or the radio.
Do you anti tech guys have the same vitriol for your cell phone? Or is it price driven angst?
You will soon find out @Zorba views on those....
HAHAHAHA.
I'm sure he's using a steam/coal powered computer and converting the noise from striking sticks together to type his response
Apparition
Sand Hollow '26 beginner trails in the books
Original poster
Supporting Member
Ride of the Month Winner
In my particular case I'm not anti-tech, it has its place, I just don't want my car all shitted up with a bunch of nonsense I don't need, want, & will never use, so the only purpose it would serve is to complicate the operation and require me to bring it back to the dealership for problems.
First couple minutes of this video expresses perfectly the variety of angst I'd rather avoid:
The fact that they tack on ten or more grand to the price to cover all this added horseshit certainly makes it worse.
'05Train
TJ Enthusiast
I enjoy driving. I enjoy shifting. In 40~ish years of driving, to include sitting for hours on end in DC area rush hour traffic, I've never felt the need for an automatic transmission. I learned to drive in a car that had no mirror on the passenger side. It had '70s tires, steering, and brakes. Somehow, with an open diff out back and a 15 year-old behind the wheel, I could pilot that thing through any weather that was thrown at me. I could manually roll down the window, turn up the radio, use the lighter for a Marlboro, and shift, all at the same time. It was 12 years from the time I first started driving until I owned a car with air conditioning....3 years after that that I got something with power windows.
All the crap I have to deal with in my work vehicle makes me less safe. Having a vehicle slam on the brakes, or violently shake the seat when it doesn't understand what the driver is doing is massively unsafe.
I think this is my only hang-up with this logic.
Using highly technologically advanced modern tech, to explain how much modern tech sucks.
But hey, to each their own I suppose!
I do want to say, I DO understand the issue with having 'too much' tech in a vehicle.
However, I DON'T understand the issue with basic 2024 technology in a 2024 vehicle.
I own both a TJ AND a 2024 VW SUV w/ every bell & whistle available, and love them both accordingly.
I think this is my only hang-up with this logic.
Using highly technologically advanced modern tech, to explain how much modern tech sucks.
But hey, to each their own I suppose!
I do want to say, I DO understand the issue with having 'too much' tech in a vehicle.
However, I DON'T understand the issue with basic 2024 technology in a 2024 vehicle.
I own both a TJ AND a 2024 VW SUV w/ every bell & whistle available, and love them both accordingly.
I agree. I would murder you if you took my AC seats away....
You guys haven't been here very long.
I wrote computer software to evaluate power plant performance back in the 90s. I still dabble in it on my Debian linux laptop. But the tech in my wife's new car is annoying as hell.
Every time I start the car I have to disable some of the steering lane assist crap. Some of our lanes are not well marked and if it can't see the paint it beeps or trys to center you between lanes. I-80 east of here is too narrow and the lane assist freaks out. Or worse pushes me closer to the large semi riding the line.
I'm no luddite. I use technology for personal gain and to make my life easier. I would take a big off button for all the tech on my new car if they aren't going to let the car sense my key and leave off what I've previously turned off.
You confuse heated seats or power windows with the car taking over and driving unsafely all you want. You'd be wrong.
And remember, all those fancy gadgets people use were developed and programmed by geezers. Unless you think programming started 5-10 years ago. Most cell users are no different than a person who learned to use a remote to watch TV. Download and app and push some buttons. My mom can use a cell phone and she was born in 1947.
I wrote computer software to evaluate power plant performance back in the 90s. I still dabble in it on my Debian linux laptop. But the tech in my wife's new car is annoying as hell.
Every time I start the car I have to disable some of the steering lane assist crap. Some of our lanes are not well marked and if it can't see the paint it beeps or trys to center you between lanes. I-80 east of here is too narrow and the lane assist freaks out. Or worse pushes me closer to the large semi riding the line.
I'm no luddite. I use technology for personal gain and to make my life easier. I would take a big off button for all the tech on my new car if they aren't going to let the car sense my key and leave off what I've previously turned off.
You confuse heated seats or power windows with the car taking over and driving unsafely all you want. You'd be wrong.
And remember, all those fancy gadgets people use were developed and programmed by geezers. Unless you think programming started 5-10 years ago. Most cell users are no different than a person who learned to use a remote to watch TV. Download and app and push some buttons. My mom can use a cell phone and she was born in 1947.
I think this is my only hang-up with this logic.
Using highly technologically advanced modern tech, to explain how much modern tech sucks.
But hey, to each their own I suppose!
I think you're missing the point. While I am in fact typing this reply on my desktop computer, if it shits the bed I can still drive my car to work tomorrow. If the overly complicated computer in my car shits the bed I've got an actual problem (see above video).
But then again I'm a simple bastard, I have always (and still) see cars as transportation, not entertainment, at least the daily driver variety. It's primary function for me is getting me there and back, not watching a movie while driving.
Sports cars, Jeeps, Harleys & such, whole different ballgame, I'll only own them for fun only, no reliance on them for daily business...
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