EV thread

[Paradiddle]

Of every vehicle I've ever owned, NOTHING beats the drivability of the German lineup.
Even some of my older 2000's era's BMW's would out-drive most modern Japanese/US vehicles on the road now.
Dependability isn't as shabby as the world would make you believe either (on par with US manufacturers), as long as you keep on top of maintenance.

It's the lack of knowledge around the systems/maintenance that makes people shy away. The German engineering is completely different from what would/can be seen on a Japanese/US vehicle. I think this is a large reason why people are genuinely scared/anxious to own & work on German vehicles.

Not to mention the cost of maintenance if you must find a shop to work on them.
Euro shops are few/far between, and they know it, and that is reflected in the maintenance costs.

With that being said, I think every manufacturer could stand to take some reliability notes from the Japanese market.
There's just something about Toyota, Lexus, Infiniti, Nissan, Honda that can't be replicated in terms of reliability. It's pretty mind-blowing to see.

Honestly, I have not much good to say about the American car manufacturing market.
It's so hit or miss in terms of reliability I don't even think it belongs in the discussion.

Very good friend has been a mechanic for VW for 20 years. Dealership guy, certified by VW, master etc etc.

He said in his opinion they are the most over engineered vehicles on the market. Hates the way the German's do it. Over complex, over engineered, etc. He much prefers working on American cars (including his wifes Jeep)

 

[Zorba]

5 over!!! HAHAHAH. You will get murdered on the highways here in California. I would certain pit your slow ass to get around you.

Zorba is a 90 year old Amish man trapped in a late 40's body with the dancing habits of a 24 year old Egyptian. I LOVE IT!

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You're definitely FULL of "Taradiddle". I'm a California native. So what's next in your dick measuring contest? Go back into your mother's basement, little man.

 

[zachpeakee]

Very good friend has been a mechanic for VW for 20 years. Dealership guy, certified by VW, master etc etc.

He said in his opinion they are the most over engineered vehicles on the market. Hates the way the German's do it. Over complex, over engineered, etc. He much prefers working on American cars (including his wifes Jeep)

Well, that is something I will agree with him on.
They ARE over-engineered, and way more difficult to work on than expected.

Of the multiple BMW's and VW's i've owned (and still own) this statement is truth.

However, that is also partially the reason why they are just so damn nice to drive.

 

[Paradiddle]

Well, that is something I will agree with him on.
They ARE over-engineered, and way more difficult to work on than expected.

Of the multiple BMW's and VW's i've owned (and still own) this statement is truth.

However, that is also partially the reason why they are just so damn nice to drive.

They are amazing machines. Like most things German.

 

[Zorba]

That's why I love my old Mercedes - but I wouldn't own a new one. If I were absolutely forced to buy a new, "modern" car, it would be Japanese. I hate saying that, but the Japanese know how to do electronics, the Germans don't. The Japanese make very well engineered transportation appliances. The Germans make automobiles. Mercedes has lost their way as far as I'm concerned, and I wouldn't own a VW on a bet - they're NOTORIOUS for strange and wonderful electrical/electronic problems. Yea, they're nice, we had a '96 Passat TDI, wonderful engine and drive train, body was OK, rest of it was crap.

 

[Rickyd]

That's why I love my old Mercedes - but I wouldn't own a new one. If I were absolutely forced to buy a new, "modern" car, it would be Japanese. I hate saying that, but the Japanese know how to do electronics, the Germans don't. The Japanese make very well engineered transportation appliances. The Germans make automobiles. Mercedes has lost their way as far as I'm concerned, and I wouldn't own a VW on a bet - they're NOTORIOUS for strange and wonderful electrical/electronic problems. Yea, they're nice, we had a '96 Passat TDI, wonderful engine and drive train, body was OK, rest of it was crap.

I had an 85 300d once apon a time.that fire breathing turdbodiesel was too much for me. Back tires ain't cheap!


I'd love to put an om617 in a cj with really low gears.then use it as a dedicated ranch rig though. Simple,thrifty on fuel and fuel it with red from the farm tank.

 

[Zorba]

I had an 85 300d once apon a time.that fire breathing turdbodiesel was too much for me. Back tires ain't cheap!


I'd love to put an om617 in a cj with really low gears.then use it as a dedicated ranch rig though. Simple,thrifty on fuel and fuel it with red from the farm tank.

Its been done - there was one for sale on the other side of the state from me, I thought briefly about going to look at it. I understand that it isn't an easy swap.

 

[Rickyd]

Its been done - there was one for sale on the other side of the state from me, I thought briefly about going to look at it. I understand that it isn't an easy swap.

Yeah,takes a different oil pan and welder to go with the pricy and suspect adapters

 

[Zorba]

Yeah,takes a different oil pan and welder to go with the pricey and suspect adapters

Something like that. The OEM upper/lower oil pan apparently just won't fit a Jeep frame without a huge amount of fabrication. *shrug*

 

[CreepinDeth]

Very good friend has been a mechanic for VW for 20 years. Dealership guy, certified by VW, master etc etc.

He said in his opinion they are the most over engineered vehicles on the market. Hates the way the German's do it. Over complex, over engineered, etc. He much prefers working on American cars (including his wifes Jeep)

I have the same opinion
I will NEVER own a German sheissevagen

Cost to gain isnt there, and its 100% status symbol BS with their luxury divisions. My sister owns a new MBZ premium SUV and the basic maintenance is 5-7x the cost.

Ive owned several Lexus and they are built waaaaay better

 

[Apparition]

I have the same opinion
I will NEVER own a German sheissevagen

Cost to gain isnt there, and its 100% status symbol BS with their luxury divisions. My sister owns a new MBZ premium SUV and the basic maintenance is 5-7x the cost.

Ive owned several Lexus and they are built waaaaay better

Ordered a new BMW several years ago. It will be the last. I can’t name a single thing I liked about it.

 

[Zorba]

Ive owned several Lexus and they are built waaaaay better

Lexus is what ruined Mercedes, or at least contributed to their downfall. Idiot Americans thought that a re-badged Toyota that was styled like a Mercedes (at the time) with American market luxury crap *was* a Mercedes. Hardly. But Mercedes felt obligated to add all the bullshit gadgets that they had "largely" avoided hitherto in order to compete. Unfortunately, they were probably correct what with increasing American effeteness. They don't do gadgets and electronics well, they never have. About that same time, they changed their historic focus as an engineering driven company to a bean counter driven company. The results were NOT good.

Don't get me wrong; Lexus, like every other Toyota, is a good car. It isn't a Mercedes by any means, but as painful as it is to admit this, I'd buy a Lexus before I'd buy a Mercedes - the Japs know their gadgets and electronics. Mercedes is lost and has been for decades. I also got burned by my VW experience, never again!

 

[BlueC]

Ordered a new BMW several years ago. It will be the last. I can’t name a single thing I liked about it.

My uncle did the same thing because my aunt wanted one. 3 years and 40,000 miles later, he was done with it and got less than 1/3 of what he originally paid for it. It's probably been gone 5 years now, and he still bitches about that BMW now and then.

 

[Apparition]

My uncle did the same thing because my aunt wanted one. 3 years and 40,000 miles later, he was done with it and got less than 1/3 of what he originally paid for it. It's probably been gone 5 years now, and he still bitches about that BMW now and then.

Great buying experience though even had hors doeuvres. All maintenance was covered for first 40,000 miles too.

 

[Zorba]

My uncle did the same thing because my aunt wanted one. 3 years and 40,000 miles later, he was done with it and got less than 1/3 of what he originally paid for it. It's probably been gone 5 years now, and he still bitches about that BMW now and then.

That's the gist of my VW story, although we got 96K out of it before we dumped it. Its been gone 19 years now, and I still bitch about it when the subject comes up. I've never owned a BMW, the only one that ever really attracted me was the Z3. The Z4 didn't look anywhere near as nice to my eye.

 

[BlueC]

All maintenance was covered for first 40,000 miles too.

I don't remember it costing him much in repairs, but I do remember it being a high maintenance car, always in and out of the shop for something, and something happened with a turbo pretty early on. The real kick-in-the-nuts that he won't forget or let go was the resale value, or lack there of, of the car.

 

[BlueC]

I've never owned a BMW

I haven't owned one, but friends and family have, and all have had the same basic experience. They seem to be rather high maintenance, especially the newer models, and paying someone to work on one, well you have to pay a "luxury tax".

 

[cliffish]

I had an 85 300d once apon a time.that fire breathing turdbodiesel was too much for me. Back tires ain't cheap!


I'd love to put an om617 in a cj with really low gears.then use it as a dedicated ranch rig though. Simple,thrifty on fuel and fuel it with red from the farm tank.

I had a 77 300D, non turbo, 5 cylinder 0-60 in 24.8 seconds (yes I timed it) but man that thing pulled my mothers horse trailer loaded with 2 horses back then. We even flew to the factory in Germany to pick it up and spent 4 weeks touring 13 countries in Europe before shipping it back to NY.

 

[Rickyd]

I had a 77 300D, non turbo, 5 cylinder 0-60 in 24.8 seconds (yes I timed it) but man that thing pulled my mothers horse trailer loaded with 2 horses back then. We even flew to the factory in Germany to pick it up and spent 4 weeks touring 13 countries in Europe before shipping it back to NY.

It wasn't a bad car,i just had a hard time not comparing it to a 500+ hp duramax

 

[Paradiddle]

I haven't owned one, but friends and family have, and all have had the same basic experience. They seem to be rather high maintenance, especially the newer models, and paying someone to work on one, well you have to pay a "luxury tax".

I had a 540M back in the early 90's. Great driving car, amazing looking interior (all orange gauges - looked like a submarine) fast as balls, great fit and finish.

First "service" bill was beyond eye opening. It went down the road for a WJ.