First post for the new guy: Suspension advice and help needed

D

DCarson

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Joined
Dec 26, 2018
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Location
Lillington, NC
OK, I have been watching here and reading diligently over the Christmas vacation as I finally have some time to tinker on boy child's (really mine but he doesn't know it yet) jeep. We bought it about a year ago with 103k miles on it for 6k. 2001 with 2.5L. So, it has handled like trying to drive one of those rear steer flat carts at Sam's Club. So, my mission over Christmas was to try to figure out how to tighten her up a little so driving it would not require preloading with ibuprofen for the white knuckle arthritis that I have been experiencing.

So, I have questions. Oh, I have lots of questions....

First, I am learning all sorts of stuff from searching all the threads. It appears that I have either 2 or 2.5" of suspension lift, and 1" of body lift. I am currently running 33/12.5/15 Duratracs that are getting close to replacement. So, I checked all of the ball joints and components on the front suspension from some videos I found on either this board or the wrangler forum. Everything seemed good at the axles and forks and ball joints. When I was doing that steering test feeling for clunks in the front steering, I could feel the very slightest of bumps right where the Pitman arm connects to the drag link (I think that is what it is called). No other bumps or clunks anywhere when turning the wheel back and forth. No movement in the ball joints doing that shovel test I saw on the videos. I did have this movement in the Pitman arm connection that is in the video. Is this enough to be a problem? In the video I saw the buy did not have a set of channel locks big enough to show what he was looking for.

Also, have a question about the shocks. I have normally first been suspect of shocks with other vehicles but have also never owned a jeep. Is this movement excessive. I am not putting a lot of effort into rocking the jeep in this video.


I am just trying to trouble shoot this as much as possible. I did do an alignment and was 1/16" toe in based on the instructions I have found online.

Where do I go from here.

Rear suspension is next focus. Here are some pictures of what I have going on. Not even sure of everything I am looking at, but trying to learn. Thanks in advance for all the help. And, my apologies for all the aggravation I will probably create.
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Welcome to the forum! First off, I might suggest you check out this thread, I'm sure your wife will love you for it: How can I fix a harsh ride on my Jeep Wrangler TJ?

Anyways, that looks like the Rough Country 2.5" lift kit.

The Rough Country shocks are shit... literally shit. You'd get a better ride from a pogo stick. If you check out that thread I linked to above, you'll see the recommendation for which shocks ride really, really good, as well as a number of other things you can do to make your Wrangler go from riding like a tank, to riding like a Cadillac (or as close to one as you'll get in a Wrangler at least).

If that was my Jeep with 103k miles and no maintenance history of when things were last replaced, I would start doing preventative maintenance just because everything is overdue to be changed anyways. Regardless of condition, I would replace the ball joints, tie rod ends, shocks (with a better shock like Rancho RS5000X shocks), bushings, etc.

All of that stuff is cheap to do and pretty easy to replace. You'll then know when the last time it was all done was, and you'll give that thing a new lease on life.

The Rough Country springs are fine, it's the shocks that are widely well known as being garbage (even right out of the box).
 
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It looks like you are also missing the top bump stop cups and bumpers. As you read through you will learn bump stops are key. Also, welcome everyone on here is great and offer great advice.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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The noise in your shock video is not normal. Chances are the shocks have bottomed out from having no bump stops, and are damaged. RC shocks suck anyway, no big loss.
 
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Energy suspension 2.9101R (red) for bump stops. Front and rear are the same. Available in black as well.

Bump stop replacement cups are available as well.
 
OK, so any videos you know of for replacing those bump stops and cups? I guess I will be getting online and spending some more money pretty quick.

Any particular tools that are necessary for these types of projects that I need to get also? Did I see some tori fittings on some of the other pictures on the forum? I hate to get halfway through something and realize I do not have the right tool for the job and then either have to drive somewhere to try to find it, or wait two days for Amazon.
 
You’ll likely need a Torx 55 for the sway bar. Other than that normal ratchet and sockets.

Get some jounce bumpers. They just press into the bumpstop cups. If you lube them up, when you’re installing new shocks, you can squeeze them through the springs and use a crowbar to exert the pressure you need to pop them up into the cup.
 
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What exactly are you trying to fix? Is there some weird handling characteristic that is giving you the "white knucle" experience. You mentioned rear steer...If you are truly getting rear steer, you need to look at the rear control arms. Look for cracks in the bushings. Also...this is something that a LOT of people that install lifts in their driveway don't know (I didn't either), the control arm bolts need to be loosened and retightened at ride height with the weight of the vehicle on them. Not doing that will prematurely wear the bushing material. Your lift looks like its been on there a while, so its possible it was installed and the bushings were not allowed to recenter to their new ride height. They will need to be replaced. You can get a full replacement set of factory arms for about 200 bucks (Crown) or go aftermarket and get something with Johnny Joints or Metalcloak Duroflex. That will run about 1200.

You should also replace your draglink. That Tie Rod end you showed in the video is pretty shot.

I'm going to disagree with Chris on replacing all the front end components if you've checked them and they're good. I'm still running the factory ball joints on the knuckles at 138,000 miles. Factory hubs too. I have replacements, ready to go, but until they are bad, I'm going to leave them.
 
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Most cheapo shocks are not designed to run "upside down" as yours are presently mounted and they may not be working at all. I can't say for sure if the Rough Country can run inverted but most can't due to valve design. Toss em and spring for Rancho RS5000X's, best shock out there for TJ's, and mount them with the rod up, not down, like yours are.
 
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We need a tally for the OP.

1) jounce bumpers
2) drag link
3) tie rod ends (I’d just do the ZJ Tie Rod Conversion)
4) shocks (Rancho 5000x; rod up) part no.’s 55239 and 55241
5) check control arm bushings and loosen bolts to recenter while on the ground under full load. Replace with Crown if needed
6) bump stop cups (they look rotted) and new longer bolts for 1.5-2” bump stop extensions
7) I’d go to 32’s when I got new tires at that lift height
 
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OK, thanks everybody, Great information here. I am putting together the list. Quick question...... I see where the standard height of the tj is 12" front and 8" rear. Where exactly do I measure to see what amount of lift I have to make sure I am ordering the right shocks? I think 2.5" based off measurements and what Chris said, but I want to make absolutely certain before ordering.

And second, If I am going to start my first project of replacing shocks, and putting in the bump stops and cups, while I have things disassembled to that point, what all else should I go ahead and replace at that time since I am that deep into it?
 
Ranger_b0b said:
What exactly are you trying to fix? Is there some weird handling characteristic that is giving you the "white knucle" experience. You mentioned rear steer...If you are truly getting rear steer, you need to look at the rear control arms. Look for cracks in the bushings. Also...this is something that a LOT of people that install lifts in their driveway don't know (I didn't either), the control arm bolts need to be loosened and retightened at ride height with the weight of the vehicle on them. Not doing that will prematurely wear the bushing material. Your lift looks like its been on there a while, so its possible it was installed and the bushings were not allowed to recenter to their new ride height. They will need to be replaced. You can get a full replacement set of factory arms for about 200 bucks (Crown) or go aftermarket and get something with Johnny Joints or Metalcloak Duroflex. That will run about 1200.

You should also replace your draglink. That Tie Rod end you showed in the video is pretty shot.

I'm going to disagree with Chris on replacing all the front end components if you've checked them and they're good. I'm still running the factory ball joints on the knuckles at 138,000 miles. Factory hubs too. I have replacements, ready to go, but until they are bad, I'm going to leave them.
Click to expand...


Ranger,
I really have zero experience level so not sure. I want the jeep to handle so that it does not feel like it is swaying all over the road. I do not get any o the death wobble that I keep hearing about, but it just sways. Going into curves almost feels like it is swaying from the rear and a little sketchy. The 16 yo boy child is driving this. Good thing is, it keeps him from driving fast, the bad thing is, it just does not feel stable. I want it to feel stable and safe on the road and feel like I am in control. Not like I am just along for the ride. Wish I knew how to explain it better. If you fly, it feels like an uncoordinated turn where I am getting punchy on the rudder.

So, you also mentioned rear control arms, is there a test of some sort that I can do to tell they need replacement or if the business are bad? When I am up under the jeep, blind trying to lead here, it looks like all that stuff is possibly the original stuff, even the shocks. I am thinking maybe the rear just got neglected.

Thanks again for all the help. Oh, and by the way, people at work tell me my emails are too long and I just need to get to the damn point. Guessing my posts are like that too. But I appreciate the help!
 
Measure from the bottom steel spring plate to the top of the spring itself, do not include the rubber isolater. Anything beyond 12 & 8 is the lift height.

Replacing jounce cups & bumpers, and shocks can be done without replacing anything else, unless you plan to replace springs also.
 
JMT said:
We need a tally for the OP.

1) jounce bumpers
2) drag link
3) tie rod ends (I’d just do the ZJ Tie Rod Conversion)
4) shocks (Rancho 5000x; rod up) part no.’s 55239 and 55241
5) check control arm bushings and loosen bolts to recenter while on the ground under full load. Replace with Crown if needed
6) bump stop cups (they look rotted) and new longer bolts for 1.5-2” bump stop extensions
7) I’d go to 32’s when I got new tires at that lift height
Click to expand...


Well there goes Christmas!! LOL, honestly, I am a boat guy, so I guess this really is not that bad of a list in comparison to what I am accustomed to. And I get to use this more.

So, quick questions on this. The bump stop cups and longer bolts, I read earlier these are 3/8" bolts. Any specific length? Are jounce bumpers and bump stops the same thing? Does the new drag link come with the piece that connects it to the pitman arm?

Now, to search for the ZJ tie rod conversion threads....
 
glwood said:
Measure from the bottom steel spring plate to the top of the spring itself, do not include the rubber isolater. Anything beyond 12 & 8 is the lift height.

Replacing jounce cups & bumpers, and shocks can be done without replacing anything else, unless you plan to replace springs also.
Click to expand...


Thanks GL
the other replacement stuff I was thinking of is those things that you should just go ahead and do while you have something torn apart. Watching a video though, it doesn't look like it tear in too deep. Thanks for the response.
 
DCarson said:
Ranger,
I really have zero experience level so not sure. I want the jeep to handle so that it does not feel like it is swaying all over the road. I do not get any o the death wobble that I keep hearing about, but it just sways. Going into curves almost feels like it is swaying from the rear and a little sketchy. The 16 yo boy child is driving this. Good thing is, it keeps him from driving fast, the bad thing is, it just does not feel stable. I want it to feel stable and safe on the road and feel like I am in control. Not like I am just along for the ride. Wish I knew how to explain it better. If you fly, it feels like an uncoordinated turn where I am getting punchy on the rudder.

So, you also mentioned rear control arms, is there a test of some sort that I can do to tell they need replacement or if the business are bad? When I am up under the jeep, blind trying to lead here, it looks like all that stuff is possibly the original stuff, even the shocks. I am thinking maybe the rear just got neglected.

Thanks again for all the help. Oh, and by the way, people at work tell me my emails are too long and I just need to get to the damn point. Guessing my posts are like that too. But I appreciate the help!
Click to expand...


No problem. Jeeps are not the best driving vehicles on the road, but they should feel controlled. I don't fly, so I don't know what you meant by "punchy on the rudder." Regarding checking the control arm bushings, you might be able to crawl around under the jeep and get a glimpse of them. If they are cracked or bulging in any way, its time to replace them. Better yet, pull an arm off the jeep and take a look. If they look cracked, they are bad. You can get replacement bushings, but they are a real pain to change, and the arms are so inexpensive, I'd recommend just changing the whole arm.

I can tell from your picture the rear shocks were replaced with the front...the factory shocks were black, and had plastic covers over the shafts.

Are you just trying to keep the road manners as good as possible for your boy? If so, I honestly would just spring for a new set of control arms, all the way around. Rubber degrades over time and they are inexpensive enough that it would be good piece of mind for me.

https://www.4wd.com/p/control-arm-kit/_/R-BKMN-CAK13

I've seen them on Amazon too, but my search skills must be lacking this morning...

Also, how long does the body move after you wiggle it like you were in the video you posted? It should stop moving when you stop pushing. Maybe not instantly but it should return to center very quickly...That is a good test for shock damping ability.
 
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