Frame rust

[jodomcfrodo]

If someone sold my son a death trap, you'd best believe I'd do whatever I could within the law to claw back some of the money if my attempts to do it nicely failed. Just because you wouldn't do that doesn't make those who would assholes.

If it was my son, it wouldn't be that someone sold him a death trap, it'd be that he bought a death trap. Personal responsibility. The photos show clear and obvious rust that, even if covered by undercoating, should've been found before purchase.

And yes, going up and down the block, throwing out letters calling a neighbor a crook and a liar does make you an asshole. Especially since the seller has absolutely no legal obligation to pay the buyer a cent and there is also no proof that the seller knew a thing about the rust before the sale.

At the end of the day, the only hope the OP has is that the seller has a bit of decency, because he doesn't have any legal obligation to provide any sort of support post sale.

 

[sahara2000]

I'm going to go ahead and play Devil's advocate, here. The sellers were the second owners. There is every possibility that they were not the ones who had the undercoating applied to the frame. In fact, undercoating has to be fairly old, if I'm not mistaken, to become brittle enough to actually fracture and chip off of what it's adhered to. Fresh stuff (as-in, just applied to help sell the vehicle) will typically still be softer and pliable, and will adhere to itself. Even if the rust underneath is flaking, the gummy properties of the undercoating will help it adhere to itself, and not result in the clean breaks that I'm seeing in the pictures.

This is all just conjecture on my part. I am in no way defending a dishonorable act by a dishonorable seller. I am only trying to propose that there is he possibility that they truly had no knowledge of the damage. Where it goes from there is anybody's guess.

Best of luck to you and your son. I hope it all works out for you in the end.

Fair enough...good points all. Of course, the second owner on a 21 year old Jeep could mean anything in terms of how long they've had it. Not to parse the tea leaves too much, but a seller who advertises that they've done a lot of upgrades and added new parts strikes me as someone who has had the Jeep long enough to do those things...and long enough for the undercoating to get brittle. Also, the jeep came with an off road jack, so you could make the argument that they know enough about jeeps to see the signs of frame rot and be honest with the seller. It's not like this was a soccer mom's mall crawler that the seller never even looked underneath.

 

[sahara2000]

If it was my son, it wouldn't be that someone sold him a death trap, it'd be that he bought a death trap. Personal responsibility. The photos show clear and obvious rust that, even if covered by undercoating, should've been found before purchase.

And yes, going up and down the block, throwing out letters calling a neighbor a crook and a liar does make you an asshole. Especially since the seller has absolutely no legal obligation to pay the buyer a cent and there is also no proof that the seller knew a thing about the rust before the sale.

At the end of the day, the only hope the OP has is that the seller has a bit of decency, because he doesn't have any legal obligation to provide any sort of support post sale.

No one, literally no one, has argued in this thread that the buyer was at zero fault for not checking the frame more thoroughly. But it's an antagonist/dick move on your part to name call others who are commiserating with the inexperienced teen kid who bought this thing.

But you and I are done talking because it's beginning to distract from the point of this thread. Peace.

 

[jodomcfrodo]

No one, literally no one, has argued in this thread that the buyer was at zero fault for not checking the frame more thoroughly. But it's an antagonist/dick move on your part to name call others who are commiserating with the inexperienced teen kid who bought this thing.

But you and I are done talking because it's beginning to distract from the point of this thread. Peace.

Everything I have said is hypothetical. I have called no one an asshole, just said what actions would make someone an asshole.

Obviously everyone can sympathize with a teen who bought a death trap unknowingly. But at the end of the day it is a good life lesson to learn. A jeep was inspected and bought. Hopefully the seller has enough decency to understand the situation, but he is not legally obligated to do anything to remedy that situation.

 

[Squatch]

Fair enough...good points all. Of course, the second owner on a 21 year old Jeep could mean anything in terms of how long they've had it. Not to parse the tea leaves too much, but a seller who advertises that they've done a lot of upgrades and added new parts strikes me as someone who has had the Jeep long enough to do those things...and long enough for the undercoating to get brittle. Also, the jeep came with an off road jack, so you could make the argument that they know enough about jeeps to see the signs of frame rot and be honest with the seller. It's not like this was a soccer mom's mall crawler that the seller never even looked underneath.

I can see your point, and even agree with you on it. Unfortunately, only the seller knows the absolute truth. Just remember, though, working at McDonald's doesn't make you a chef. The "upgrades" done could be all cosmetic (image), and have little to no relationship to the suspension and/or anything associated with the frame. Everyone has different interpretations of what their mechanical skills are, and what an upgrade is. New shocks and brakes might be an upgrade to the seller.

Again, I have no dog in this fight. And the truth is, either one of us could be correct in the things we've mentioned. Unfortunately, the buyer is the one having to deal with a less than enviable situation, and all any of us can do is offer them some advice on how to view it. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out, and I do hope the OP keeps us updated.

 

[Squatch]

Btw, @sahara2000, that's a beautiful looking rig in your avatar!

 

[eastbloc]

Buyer should have known better.
Seller should have not been such a low life pile of shit.

In buyers defense, not all of us deal with shit like this on daily bases.
In sellers defense, who knows, he probably never even drove it.

I can recognize a sneaky little shit with ulterior motives from just few minutes of observing their behavior.
Some don't, but none of use were there, so anything against seller, from anyone other than OP, goes out the window.

Very often than not, sellers of the vehicles know what the fuck is going on. And that not just limited to vehicles, simply dedicate a week on local craigslist adds, just for shits and giggles... will be amazed how many fuck twats are pawning shit for gold, with all sort of war stories as a cherry on top.
This seller didn't do himself any favors with this ad. Either he/she is full of shit, or just another retired local buy low-sell high entrepreneur who is full of shit.

What ever it is, dont start shit with each other over some hypothetical assumptions. OP asked for an advise, stick to it.
Never fails, in every forums bunch of clowns start beefing over some he-she-it, and then another group of " the law is, and legality that..." clowns join in to complete the circus.

 

[Rubicon88]

You won't get anything from the seller nor should you.

That sucks as an answer but I can tell you there are far too many variables to try abd hold someone accountable financially for this.
The seller may not have known. They very well could've been under the impression it was perfectly satisfactory and perhaps bought it themselves in said fashion.

Looking at the undercoating I can guarantee you that is several years old. Not 1 or even 2. I'd say that is approximately 5 years or more. Maybe even 10.

Now..your $3900 quote seems a bit strong. There are saf t caps out there that can make that repair if you're a good welder...much easier than rebuilding the frame from scratch.

If you bought the components I'd bet someone in your area thats good with welding would help you out for a lot less than 4k

P.s.

Even if you could take them to court and won a ruling. Good luck getting your money.

It bothers me to say that negative shit to you...apologies...but it's the cold hard truth. Sadly


Good luck

 

[Rubicon88]

Man I would love to stomp a mud hole in that dude

Spit beech nut in that dude's eye?

 

[hardtailpan]

In Massachusetts, if you buy a vehicle which will not pass inspection, it can be returned to the seller (yes, even private party) for a full refund. There is a time limit, maybe 30 days, I'm not sure. That being said, they can refuse and you'd need to take them to court. Even then, if you get a judgement in your favor good luck collecting the money. I don't know if any of this applies to you, but no one has mentioned the possibility yet so I figured I'd throw it out there.

Sorry this happened, but it happens. Assuming you cannot recover any money, you basically have three choices: Sell it as is (with disclosure), part it out or fix it. Fixing it will let you drive it safely. Whether or not you will be able to enjoy the vehicle is something you will have to decide. It may leave a bad taste in your mouth. Also, you will not recover your money from fixing it.

If you have the ability to part it out, depending on what options it has, this may be a better route, though a lot more work on your part. This depends heavily on options. If it was a Rubi, this would be the way to go, but with the price paid I seriously doubt it is.

You could try to sell it as is, but the problem here is that it is simply not worth very much with a bad frame, which of course you would disclose. Some people (me included) wouldn't even consider it as it is nothing more to me than a parts vehicle at this point.

If it were me, I would first contact the seller to see if they would work with me. Maybe split the cost of the frame repair, or in the perfect situation, take the vehicle back for a full refund. I would also check if where you live has a lemon law like the one I mentioned above that you could discuss with the PO. If this proves fruitless, I wouldn't take them to court, I would just move on....at least that's what I like to think I'd do

Good luck, let us know how it works out, or doesn't.

Edited to add: Some people mentioned above that the PO might not have known how bad the frame was. In all of the TJs I looked before I bought mine, I ran into this quite a bit. Many people simply do not look under their vehicles, and even if they did, wouldn't know what they were looking at. If it was covered with undercoating, it is unlikely the PO would've taken a hammer to the frame to test it. Other than enthusiasts who have dealt with stuff like this time and time again, your average person doesn't give frame rust a lot of thought. That being said, I also ran into a couple VERY unscrupulous sellers that I would've loved to monkey stomp into the ground, but they were much more rare than the ignorant ones.

 

[Mich2020]

Unless you have it in writing that it is "rust free" it will be hard the prove that the seller said it was rust free. The seller could deny that he said that it was rust free. You will spend more in legal fees that the value of the repair. This is one of those life lessons sadly.

 

[Hopper]

My Jeep had the same issue with Rust. Your Son will learn from this. You can be the example for him to learn from.
I was able to find a guy to weld the new sections in. I cut the old sections out and he welded them in, saved a bit of money. Although I said I would love to Stomp this fella I certainly wasnt suggesting you do that. Get mad, blow off some steam, then go fix your Jeep with or without the Sellers help. Good luck!!!

 

[Artsifrtsi]

Most private sales are no implied warranty, and seller is not liable... some states you might be able to get around that.

I know it's pricey, but in that situation I'd opt for frame replacement, but then only if the rest of the Jeep was in great condition too. It would be a great lesson, both in closely inspecting before you buy, and allowing him to touch every portion of the Jeep to replace. You might even be able to find a used frame in good enough condition less than the new one below...

https://www.quadratec.com/p/throttl...MI3omWzunF7AIVRNyGCh0OoQZDEAQYBiABEgKpV_D_BwE

 

[TWiG01]

Someone mentioned Safe-T-cap and that is probably going to be your cheapest route. Usually the top of frame rails are in good enough condition for the safe t caps to be welded on. Liquid iron industries in Berlin, NJ does great work and I’d be willing to bet it’d be cheaper than $3900.

 

[JEEPCJTJ]

This thread seems to have turned into something similar to the giant social medias with almost everyone being right while almost everyone is wrong. Maybe not exactly, but pretty damn close.

Anyway, @3605debra has a son who bought a pretty good looking Jeep with a rusty frame and she's looking for some help here. Unfortunately we can't really help regarding NJ laws specifically but we did offer some suggestions that may help if we're all lucky. If not, the only other thing we can do is help her to help him to get it fixed properly at the cheapest price possible. If I lived near them, had room to work on it and I was still able to weld good, I'd just tell her to send him and his Jeep over if they won't "buy it back".

Since I don't live there, can't really weld good like I used to (yet) and I mentioned those "giant social medias", I was going to make a semi-smart-ass reference to using GoFundMe but decided not to. That decision changed after I googled GoFundMe and here's what ended up at the top of google: Had my guitar smashed while busking... which ended up with him getting 10 times what the guitar cost in about 23 hours so maybe it would help. Heck, I might try it now to pay for some welding classes.

 

[Fonz54]

Hello! My son recently purchased a 1999 Wrangler TJ for $6,000. He was told at the time of purchase as well as in the ad that it didn’t have any frame rust. It was undercoated. However, now 2 weeks later he noticed that the undercoating was peeling and when he looked closer and peeled more of the undercoating off it was very bad. I’ve included pictures of a portion of the frame. Is there anything he can do to get any money from seller? It was taken to a Jeep frame repair shop and got a quote of $3,900.

View attachment 197465

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I have not read every posting in this thread and I may be repeating what others have said, but by all means do not allow you son to continue to drive this TJ with the frame in that condition. I can only imagine what we have not seen that is still covered by undercoating. Park it until such time that the chassis is replaced or repaired.

 

[Rubicon88]

Fair enough...good points all. Of course, the second owner on a 21 year old Jeep could mean anything in terms of how long they've had it. Not to parse the tea leaves too much, but a seller who advertises that they've done a lot of upgrades and added new parts strikes me as someone who has had the Jeep long enough to do those things...and long enough for the undercoating to get brittle. Also, the jeep came with an off road jack, so you could make the argument that they know enough about jeeps to see the signs of frame rot and be honest with the seller. It's not like this was a soccer mom's mall crawler that the seller never even looked underneath.

See this is what people just don't get.

I've been down this road in a similar argument about wheel spacers.....

I can 101 percent tell you there are many people out there that simply grab keys, open door, abd drive. They love the look, and even the ride and drive. The very same people have nary a clue about maintaining a vehicle. We see it everyday at the shop. They don't even know the open end of a combination wrench. I'm not being sarcastic nor far fetched.

You can't hold people accountable for being uneducated. Just because they know wgat a high lift jack is doesn't mean shit.

Again you'd be amazed at some of the rigs we see and the amount of accessories installed yet their off roading prowess is their 2RC stone driveway and mechanical ability is operating a zip tie.

The only thing you could do here is touch base with the seller and bring the issue up. Perhaps they might be upset for not knowing about it and help to make it right.

Good luck