Full Tuck or Super 35 and Locker?

[JMT]

$2931 to do the rear only, for a new Dana 44, 35-Spline, 4.56 gears, E-Locker, and ancillary stuff, sticking with drum brakes.

https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-16588364-dana-489-tj-rear-bolt-in-axle-assembly-35-spline.html

It would probably be another $800 at least to up the gears in the front

 

[JeepNWilly]

Do some shopping around. Back when I did mine David Johnson from North Ridge 4x4 beat everyone.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Ok, here's a good case in point. @JeepNWilly vs @StG58. One against, one for. But really, @JeepNWilly is against the Dana 35, not the Super35, though he is against polishing that turd up. But from all I read the Super35 with 30 spline shafts is stronger than the Dana 44. So, what's a man to do? ~75% of the off-road Jeep world hates the 35 period, the others do minor trails or say the Super 35 is a valid ticket. If I could do the Dana 44 for close to the same as the Super35, I'd do it, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere close.

Those who don't believe a Dana 35 with a good quality (!) Super 35 kit like from Revolution Gear installed is up to running 35's on tough trails are simply clueless. Forum member mrblaine had a hand in designing the original Super 35 kit with Superior Axle and bears witness to it handily surviving some of the toughest trails in the country which are in Johnson Valley, his primary wheeling and product testing area.

There will always some, Billy-badass types who who repeat rumors and old-wive's tales to appear knowledgeable without knowing if they're true or not. They read it on the internet so they figure it must be true, right?

 

[StG58]

@JMT, I'm not against the Dana 44. It's a valid upgrade. I just don't think it's needed all the time.

 

[JMT]

Those who don't believe a Dana 35 with a good quality (!) Super 35 kit like from Revolution Gear installed is up to running 35's on tough trails are simply clueless. Forum member mrblaine had a hand in designing the original Super 35 kit with Superior Axle and bears witness to it handily surviving some of the toughest trails in the country which are in Johnson Valley, his primary wheeling and product testing area.

There will always some, Billy-badass types who who repeat rumors and old-wive's tales to appear knowledgeable without knowing if they're true or not. They read it on the internet so they figure it must be true, right?

Everything's not true on the internet? Oh man, I'm in trouble!

 

[JeepNWilly]

@JMT, I'm not against the Dana 44. It's a valid upgrade. I just don't think it's needed all the time.

I completely agree with you that they are not needed all the time and depending on what you plan on doing. For me an axle/locker purchase was going to be a one time thing, I did not want to have go back and upgrade it again at a later time. Some hardcore wheelers build Dana 60's but for me that was just to extreme and out of my reach so I opted for the strongest axle I could afford.

 

[JMT]

I completely agree with you that they are not needed all the time and depending on what you plan on doing. For me an axle/locker purchase was going to be a one time thing, I did not want to have go back and upgrade it again at a later time. Some hardcore wheelers build Dana 60's but for me that was just to extreme and out of my reach so I opted for the strongest axle I could afford.

I guess that's why I keep coming back to the Super35. I think its more than sufficient for my current and possible plans. I'd max out at 35's, and if it will run those comfortably in Johnson Valley, then that's good enough for me. Thanks for your opinions and insight...

 

[bobthetj03]

If you were still on 31's, I would have voted for the TT.

 

[JMT]

If you were still on 31's, I would have voted for the TT.

I always find that statement interesting.

 

[bobthetj03]

I always find that statement interesting.

Why's that?

 

[JMT]

Why's that?

I don't know, it's sort of saying, when you do a build and you get to 31's, you should at that time do the TT. Of course, most people don't, but if you did it could result in repeating a mod if you want to go on to 33's or more, since you'd probably need another rear driveshaft, assuming it would be too short with additional suspension lift.

Also, what's the performance comparison between a TJ on 31's with a TT and a TJ on 33's without a TT? It depends on the amount of Tuck, as far as clearance goes, but as far as obstacle size goes, 33's are superior. What other factors might come into play if you put the two head to head following the same lines, et al?

 

[4speedhandler]

im not here to get into it with anyone but the math is pretty simple that a larger axle will have more gear on gear engagement between the pinion and ring gears. For some a super 35 may be worth it, at least from my understanding of physics i would personally go with something bigger just to distribute the load over a larger area and not risk damage down the road due to having too small of teeth on the ring/pinion and therefore not enough contact. Funny enough though a ford 9" with its hypoid distance different than that of most dana axles has more engagement surface area than a standard dana 60. So for my current build i have a custom 9" in the garage waiting on more funds to swap it in.

 

[bobthetj03]

I don't know, it's sort of saying, when you do a build and you get to 31's, you should at that time do the TT. Of course, most people don't, but if you did it could result in repeating a mod if you want to go on to 33's or more, since you'd probably need another rear driveshaft, assuming it would be too short with additional suspension lift.

Also, what's the performance comparison between a TJ on 31's with a TT and a TJ on 33's without a TT? It depends on the amount of Tuck, as far as clearance goes, but as far as obstacle size goes, 33's are superior. What other factors might come into play if you put the two head to head following the same lines, et al?

I suppose you could pose a debate for either mod. Guess it depends on where you wheel. I got hung up on my belly wheeling stuff like this

If my belly was up 2", vs. 2" bigger tire, IMO, I would have had better luck getting thru certain obstacles. As far as needing drive shafts with a TT, unless you're going completely flat I don't think you'd need longer ones, but I could be wrong there.
If I were on 31's following you on 33's, I probably pick my own lines vs. following yours. Not that your lines are bad or anything.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

im not here to get into it with anyone but the math is pretty simple that a larger axle will have more gear on gear engagement between the pinion and ring gears. For some a super 35 may be worth it, at least from my understanding of physics i would personally go with something bigger just to distribute the load over a larger area and not risk damage down the road due to having too small of teeth on the ring/pinion and therefore not enough contact. Funny enough though a ford 9" with its hypoid distance different than that of most dana axles has more engagement surface area than a standard dana 60. So for my current build i have a custom 9" in the garage waiting on more funds to swap it in.

And a Dana 60 is bigger than a Dana 44, does that then make the Dana 44 unworthy? Of course not, for those running tires and trails the Dana 44 is up to. Going bigger always appeals to Jeepers but there comes a point where it becomes unnecessarily/excessively big.

The bottom line is this... for those who have wheeled and know Johnson Valley (and there are not many who have personal experience there), they understand just how tough the area is. It's home to King of the Hammers and it's a favorite playground for those with the biggest/baddest built 4x4 vehicles. For those trails that can be done with 35" tires, and that includes trails that are absolutely unbelievably tough for even 35's, the Super 35 has been well proven to hold up just fine. The Super 35's 30 spline alloy 4340 chromoly shafts are significantly stronger than a Dana 44's 30 spline carbon steel shafts. And the gears hold up fine with 35's on those trails. Trails I have broken twice on. Not to mention the TJ's Dana 35 is using the same axle tubes that the TJ's Dana 44 does. Cut from the exact same tube stock.

And not to further mention that a good quality Super 35 kit like from Revolution Gear replaces the Dana 35's carrier and spider/side gears with a full case locker.

Johnson Valley has become a testing ground due to its high degree of difficulty. So if a Super 35 kit has been proven out there, it has been proven beyond the need to prove it any more. And for those who claim it's not worthy, they just don't know what they're saying. They're just repeating the same tired BULLSHIT that tends to get repeated by those who just don't know when they're repeating bullshit.

I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm not running a Super 35.... I'm running twin Dana 44 axles with chromoly 4340 axle shafts... all US origin stuff. But I do know the Super 35 is up to it, it's a worthy upgrade that is up to what anyone in this forum would run. And 99.9% of all other wheelers running 35's too.

 

[4speedhandler]

im not saying its not worthy im just saying there are better options out there. such as options that from the factory aren't c-clip, options that start with 30 spline and are then upgraded even further, options that displace the load over more area on larger gear teeth. Look at the dana 30 it only goes down to 4.88 gears because then the teeth get too small and can start to shear, same thing can be expected to happen on a dana 35 when you make the axle shafts substantially stronger than the ring and pinion can readily support. Sure it may work for some people, but there's a reason Chrysler went bigger on the new gen 44's and eventually did away with the 35 altogether, probably because theres an entire website dedicated to destroyed dana 35's. But ya know, i guess physics doesn't really play into wheeling at all so i may be completely wrong on all of this.
http://www.billhughes.com/dana35c/

 

[JeepNWilly]

@4speedhandler man great link. Those pics brings back some good memories on my Dana 35 carnage LOL.

 

[JeepNWilly]

The area you wheel also will have a lot do with the stress we put on the axles. Out west it tends to be very dry where here in the east it is very wet, muddy and slippery as hell. We cannot always just simply crawl over rocks. Many times we have to essentially give it the hammer lol.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

im not saying its not worthy im just saying there are better options out there. such as options that from the factory aren't c-clip, options that start with 30 spline and are then upgraded even further, options that displace the load over more area on larger gear teeth. Look at the dana 30 it only goes down to 4.88 gears because then the teeth get too small and can start to shear, same thing can be expected to happen on a dana 35 when you make the axle shafts substantially stronger than the ring and pinion can readily support. Sure it may work for some people, but there's a reason Chrysler went bigger on the new gen 44's and eventually did away with the 35 altogether, probably because theres an entire website dedicated to destroyed dana 35's. But ya know, i guess physics doesn't really play into wheeling at all so i may be completely wrong on all of this.
http://www.billhughes.com/dana35c/

FIrst, a c-clip design does not weaken the axle. The c-clip itself sees little stress with it being positioned inside the carrier. Even the Ford 8.8 has a c-clip. Which is why c-clip eliminator kits were eventually eliminated after people realized the c-clip did nothing to make anything weaker. Next, 5.13 is well proven in the Dana 30, it's available from gear manufacturers like RGA and Yukon. You're trying to come up with reasons it doesn't work but years of the Super 35 being a popular and reliable upgrade just blows your theories to hell. You're just repeating stuff you've read. And I've known Bill Hughes for years, his website showing all the busted stock factory 27 spline Dana 35 axle shafts have nothing to do with the 4340 30 spline chromoly shafts that come in a Super 35 kit. I contributed some of those photos on his site.

Sorry to be so blunt but baseless inaccurate comments like yours about the Super 35 come from those who know nothing about it and have no personal experience.

 

[JamesAndTheSahara]

Everyone’s got an opinion so I’ll input mine. I was in a situation like you a while ago and had to make a choice. I’d put the money towards buying a stock tj dana 44 and putting a lunchbox locker up front or doing the TT now. Personally didn’t want to do a TT before my axle swap but its coming up on my list.

 

[Fouledplugs]

Sure it may work for some people, but there's a reason Chrysler went bigger on the new gen 44's and eventually did away with the 35 altogether, probably because theres an entire website dedicated to destroyed dana 35's. But ya know, i guess physics doesn't really play into wheeling at all so i may be completely wrong on all of this.
http://www.billhughes.com/dana35c/

Very valid point. It would be way cheaper for Jeep to continue the use of the Dana 35 in theory, yet Jeep got away from the old as dirt theory that the Dana 35 is a “axle that is good enough.”

Its kind of like saying there is nothing wrong with carburetors, sure the carb does the job and does it well, but fuel injection is leap years better all around. Sure its a little more expensive but it pays you back dividends in the long term.

I vote for the Dana 44. Not bashing the Dana 35. Its great for a stock Jeep and can be built to accommodate bigger tires. I just like the piece of mind an AFTERMARKET Dana 44 brings to the table.