Gear Pattern Check!

[TJRD4]

Hoping to get confirmation on my gear pattern for my Dana 35 on my ‘97; new revolution gear carrier and pinion.

My thoughts are the pinion depth is good; backlash and pinion preload are in spec at 7.5 thou and 15 in-lbs (6-10 thou; 12-16 in-lbs). The pattern is fairly centered toe to heel. Ideally I could decrease backlash a bit and move the drive pattern more towards the toe.

Appreciate the help. Thanks.

 

[hosejockey61]

Hoping to get confirmation on my gear pattern for my Dana 35 on my ‘97; new revolution gear carrier and pinion.

My thoughts are the pinion depth is good; backlash and pinion preload are in spec at 7.5 thou and 15 in-lbs (6-10 thou; 12-16 in-lbs). The pattern is fairly centered toe to heel. Ideally I could decrease backlash a bit and move the drive pattern more towards the toe.

Appreciate the help. Thanks. View attachment 673922View attachment 673923

Pinion depth is too shallow. See the flat line, almost upside down triangle? Classic shallow.

Describe to me your setting up of pinion preload. Do you have the crush sleeve in while you're checking it?

Why do you think you need to put the pattern more to the toe?

 

[TJRD4]

So long story short, I was getting a better pattern before, more of the oval shaped you described in your video, then buttoned it all up months ago. I had to finish up the rear brakes I’m converting, ZJ discs from the junk yard, and ran a pattern to check things out. It seemed like the crush sleeve eliminator took up a bit of slack between the pinion shims.

Thinking back to how I set it up; I believe I had the CSE installed with more shims and would snug it all up with a standard non eccentric nut. I then changed the number of shims , torqued the standard nut to 217 ft lbs and rechecked the preload. Once I got the correct preload I switched to the stover.

I know uou mentioned in your video that not every pattern will look perfectly oval or be the same drive/coast. Here were the patterns prior to doing the crush sleeve I think.

 

[hosejockey61]

So long story short, I was getting a better pattern before, more of the oval shaped you described in your video, then buttoned it all up months ago. I had to finish up the rear brakes I’m converting, ZJ discs from the junk yard, and ran a pattern to check things out. It seemed like the crush sleeve eliminator took up a bit of slack between the pinion shims.

Thinking back to how I set it up; I believe I had the CSE installed with more shims and would snug it all up with a standard non eccentric nut. I then changed the number of shims , torqued the standard nut to 217 ft lbs and rechecked the preload. Once I got the correct preload I switched to the stover.

I know uou mentioned in your video that not every pattern will look perfectly oval or be the same drive/coast. Here were the patterns prior to doing the crush sleeve I think. View attachment 673997View attachment 673998

Your previous patterns don't matter now. Your current pattern does. If there were no depth changes from your previous pattern to your current pattern, then you didn't have something tightened up all the way. Also, you will be surprised how much a pattern can change based on how tight you tighten the pinion nut. I used to chase my tail when I was learning. Now, I decide what my final torque value is going to be and stick with it throughout the process. So if it's at 200 ft/lbs, I use that same number during setup so as to remain as consistent as possible. Obviously that's when using shims, but when using a crush sleeve, I try to get the spec the same during setup. If I can get 20 in/lbs pinion preload, I try to finish it with 20 if that makes sense.

I think you need to pull your pinion out and look at your shims to make sure you didn't squeeze any of them out. If they are good, set it at 200 and run a pattern. If needed, adjust depth until it's good, again using 200 as your torque value for consistency.

 

[TJRD4]

I think I understand. I’ll check everything out, torque to 200 ftlbs and rerun. If the pattern looks the same I’ll add a few thou (?) to increase pinion depth until the pattern is more oval and centered.

Since I partially filled the diff I’ll drain out the clean oil and clean off the ring/ pinion.

Same process as before then with rechecking or adjusting the backlash as needed after changing pinion depth.

If pinion depth changes, I’ll also need to adjust the cse shims for preload too I think and likely need to remove/replace the pinion seal? If I try to measure preload with the seal installed it’ll be artificially high; correct?

 

[hosejockey61]

I think I understand. I’ll check everything out, torque to 200 ftlbs and rerun. If the pattern looks the same I’ll add a few thou (?) to increase pinion depth until the pattern is more oval and centered.

Since I partially filled the diff I’ll drain out the clean oil and clean off the ring/ pinion.

Same process as before then with rechecking or adjusting the backlash as needed after changing pinion depth.

If pinion depth changes, I’ll also need to adjust the cse shims for preload too I think and likely need to remove/replace the pinion seal? If I try to measure preload with the seal installed it’ll be artificially high; correct?

You're still setting up gears so everything is in play. If you already installed the seal, then yeah, it'll need to be pulled. You might be able to pull it and reinstall it with it in, but you'll most likely damage it along the way.

Did you send the gears through a break in cycle already?

 

[TJRD4]

Thanks for all your help. I’ll post in a week or so when I can get to the project.

No miles on the TJ yet; been busy with all the other bits on the build. Just finished rebuilding the engine.

 

[TJRD4]

Thanks for all your help. I’ll post in a week or so when I can get to the project.

No miles on the TJ yet; been busy with all the other bits on the build. Just finished rebuilding the engine.

@hosejockey61

Ran a as is pattern after I got the rear driveshaft removed and the gears all cleaned up. I’m thinking the consensus will still be the pinion is too shallow.

What do you recc starting with to add? Pics shoukd be drive side first, then 2 coast pics.

 

[hosejockey61]

Definitely shallow. I think it's somewhere between 5-10. Start with whatever you can make in that range and let's take a look.

Don't forget to give us your backlash. If you aren't in backlash spec, don't bother running a pattern.

 

[TJRD4]

Definitely shallow. I think it's somewhere between 5-10. Start with whatever you can make in that range and let's take a look.

Don't forget to give us your backlash. If you aren't in backlash spec, don't bother running a pattern.

Backlash 7 thou (6-10 thou spec), added 10 thou to the pinion depth, torqued my used test eccentric nut and cse solid spacer/shims to the 215 ftlbs. I’ll have to adjust the cse shims a bit but that won’t affect the pinion depth. First pic drive pattern, second is coast.

 

[hosejockey61]

I think you're still about 2-3 thou shallow

 

[TJRD4]

Dana 35 rear, after adding about 2.7 thou to pinion depth, backlash at 6 thou (spec 6-10), preload with cse hard to adjust with available shims but around 10-11 in-lbs CW, about 9-10 CCW in-lbs (spec 12-16 in-lbs). Have a new crush sleeve so may use that instead of the shims… what do you think? Drive first, coast second. I can certainly adjust the backlash more towards the middle of the spec if needed but out of time to tinker today. Thanks again.

 

[hosejockey61]

Don't add a crush sleeve until final set up.

You are now 1-2 thou deep. One more adjustment and you're there.

 

[TJRD4]

Ok so maybe here it is. Took out a 10 thou shim and replace it with a 5 and 3 thou. So should be about a net -2 thou from the last pattern. Backlash is 7 thou so I’m much happier with that. Tried a few combinations of the CSE shims for pinion preload and no good combos; either too high or stuck at 10 in-lbs. I think I’ll just use the crush sleeve and be done with it once we confirm the pattern. First pic is drive, second is coast.

 

[hosejockey61]

Yeah that looks fine. I would say you're still one thou deep but I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze. I wouldn't have a problem running that.

 

[TJRD4]

Awesome! Yeah it was a bit of chasing my tail trying to find the right shim combinations for the pinion as well.

Would you recc just going with the crush sleeve and being done with it rather than messing with the CSE solid shims?

 

[hosejockey61]

Awesome! Yeah it was a bit of chasing my tail trying to find the right shim combinations for the pinion as well.

Would you recc just going with the crush sleeve and being done with it rather than messing with the CSE solid shims?

If you can't find a combination to get you to the 16-20 in/lbs range, then yes.

 

[TJRD4]

Think I got it all put together and had no issues with the crush sleeve. Still got the 7 thou backlash, in spec pinion preload and I don’t think the pattern changed. First pic drive, second coast. Thanks again for all your help. Glad to have this one done.