Help with wiring schematic for auxiliary reverse lights

machoheadgames said:
You don't need a diode and you don't need two switches.

use a 5 pin relay:

86 - hooked to reverse trigger
85 - ground
30 - goes to lights
87 - ignition power (can also be constant, won't make a difference since it will only be used in reverse and the Jeep has to be key-on for reverse to work)
87A - power goes to your switch, then out the switch to 87A. Decide whether you want that constant or ignition power.

This way the switch will turn on the lights immediately, but if the switch is not on, putting the jeep in reverse will trigger the relay to kick them on instead.

The only downside is they will come on in reverse all the time with no way to disable them, but I'm fine with that. Don't spend enough time in reverse to be concerned.
Click to expand...

@machoheadgames is this the relay you're suggesting I use?

I'm fine with the reverse aux lights coming on EVERY time I select reverse. Like you said, I'm not spending that much time in reverse and if there is someone behind me, I want them to see me.

And, Yay or Nay on the diode? If yay, what do I need to buy?
 
MikekiM said:
@machoheadgames is this the relay you're suggesting I use?

I'm fine with the reverse aux lights coming on EVERY time I select reverse. Like you said, I'm not spending that much time in reverse and if there is someone behind me, I want them to see me.

And, Yay or Nay on the diode? If yay, what do I need to buy?
Click to expand...
That relay will work fine. I usually buy Bosch brand but anything 5 pin with an 87 and 87A pin each will work. Yes, lights will be on every time you select reverse no matter what unless you unplugged the relay or the lights. As long as you're good with that, go for it.

No diode needed at all if you hook it up the way I suggested, which is the reason for the 5 pin relay. Diodes would be needed if you were using a 4 pin relay and merging two power sources together and didn't want them to backfeed one another (for example, splicing the reverse light output and the switch output into one so that either can trigger the relay) - the purpose of the diodes would be for the switch power to not send power up the reverse circuit, and the reverse circuit to not send power back to the switch. Diodes are like electrical check valves and keep electricity flowing one way.
 
MikekiM said:
Just stuck on how I want to proceed with the switches.
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The rear wiper and washer switch is a single six pin connector with constant on for wiper and momentary on for wash. With the right relays, that might work.

Also, the goldcoast (GC) aftermarket OEM style switches can be made to light up. You could solder in a bulb, or use the internals from a stock switch. The toggle front can be switched from GC to stock. The swivels on the GC style switch are the same size, while the swivels on the OEM switch are two different sizes. The smaller hole on the OEM switch base will have to be drilled out to a slightly larger size to use the GC style toggle front. I have also used internals from wiper/washer switches to repair overheated fog switches.

One other thing, be careful when taking apart the switches. Sometimes the springs like to go flying.

gc switch 3.jpg


SWITCH SWIVEL 1.jpg
 
machoheadgames said:
That relay will work fine. I usually buy Bosch brand but anything 5 pin with an 87 and 87A pin each will work. Yes, lights will be on every time you select reverse no matter what unless you unplugged the relay or the lights. As long as you're good with that, go for it.

No diode needed at all if you hook it up the way I suggested, which is the reason for the 5 pin relay. Diodes would be needed if you were using a 4 pin relay and merging two power sources together and didn't want them to backfeed one another (for example, splicing the reverse light output and the switch output into one so that either can trigger the relay) - the purpose of the diodes would be for the switch power to not send power up the reverse circuit, and the reverse circuit to not send power back to the switch. Diodes are like electrical check valves and keep electricity flowing one way.
Click to expand...

Thank you again.
The five pin relay will operate like a four pin if 87a is left disconnected, correct?

drivincar67 said:
The rear wiper and washer switch is a single six pin connector with constant on for wiper and momentary on for wash. With the right relays, that might work.

Also, the goldcoast (GC) aftermarket OEM style switches can be made to light up. You could solder in a bulb, or use the internals from a stock switch. The toggle front can be switched from GC to stock. The swivels on the GC style switch are the same size, while the swivels on the OEM switch are two different sizes. The smaller hole on the OEM switch base will have to be drilled out to a slightly larger size to use the GC style toggle front. I have also used internals from wiper/washer switches to repair overheated fog switches.

One other thing, be careful when taking apart the switches. Sometimes the springs like to go flying.

View attachment 291897

View attachment 291912
Click to expand...

Using the rear wiper/washer switch... interesting. I have to noodle that a bit. The rear defroster switch is a momentary switch.. maybe five minute delay (haven't timed it). I don't anticipate turning on the rear aux lights for extended periods, so maybe that is an option. Tap the switch if I need the rear aux lights knowing they will power off after the pre-determined time. Although, now that I think about it, the delay timer is likely external to the switch..

I haven't pulled the sample GC switch apart.. yet.

You're suggesting an OE switch, like the fog switch, could be retrofitted with the front toggle of the GC switch (with the understanding that the hole on the OE switch might need to be clearanced to accept the larger pins on the GC switch). Do I understand correctly?

Any further info you can share on soldering the LED behind the GC toggle? I have a ton of LEDs I could use and it would be less expensive to modify the GC switch than to buy an OE fog switch AND a donor GC switch..
 
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MikekiM said:
Thank you again.
The five pin relay will operate like a four pin if 87a is left disconnected, correct?
Click to expand...
Yes, although in your case with the function you're wanting, you wouldn't want to do that. But yes, a 4 pin relay is typically a 5 pin without 87A. The 87A that 5 pin relays add is a direct connection to 30 when the relay is not energized. So this is useful for a switch application where the power gets stopped at the switch, then you just flip the switch and the power goes into 87A and out 30 to the lights. Then when in reverse, the reverse circuit triggers the relay which connects 87 to 30 like a normal 4 pin operation.
 
machoheadgames said:
Yes, although in your case with the function you're wanting, you wouldn't want to do that. But yes, a 4 pin relay is typically a 5 pin without 87A. The 87A that 5 pin relays add is a direct connection to 30 when the relay is not energized. So this is useful for a switch application where the power gets stopped at the switch, then you just flip the switch and the power goes into 87A and out 30 to the lights. Then when in reverse, the reverse circuit triggers the relay which connects 87 to 30 like a normal 4 pin operation.
Click to expand...
Understood. Thanks.

The five pin would be for the aux reverse, but I need another three or four relays.. Front lights, compressor etc. Easier to buy a five pack of five pin and only use four pins. maybe...
 
MikekiM said:
Understood. Thanks.

The five pin would be for the aux reverse, but I need another three or four relays.. Front lights, compressor etc. Easier to buy a five pack of five pin and only use four pins. maybe...
Click to expand...
Gotcha, yes if you need simple triggered applications for other items, a 5 pin will work perfectly for each and the same as a 4 pin would, generally. Just use 86/85/30/87 and you'll be good.

I usually run 5 pins for all of my needs because I don't find that many 4 pins. Even the factory used a lot of unnecessary 5 pins for 4 pin applications. 5 pins are unnecessary most of the time but are more popular to find.
 
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MikekiM said:
You're suggesting an OE switch, like the fog switch, could be retrofitted with the front toggle of the GC switch (with the understanding that the hole on the OE switch might need to be clearanced to accept the larger pins on the GC switch). Do I understand correctly?
Click to expand...
Yes.
MikekiM said:
Any further info you can share on soldering the LED behind the GC toggle? I have a ton of LEDs I could use and it would be less expensive to modify the GC switch than to buy an OE fog switch AND a donor GC switch..
Click to expand...
Forum member electricwizards posted how to do just that: https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/electricwizards-2000-tj-sport-build.14165/post-336835
MikekiM said:
Using the rear wiper/washer switch... interesting. I have to noodle that a bit. The rear defroster switch is a momentary switch.. maybe five minute delay (haven't timed it).
Click to expand...
The momentary defroster switch sends a signal to a timer relay in the instrument cluster. You could of course wire one to a relay of your choosing.
Sorry to be so late posting back but I have been out of town most of the day.
 
machoheadgames said:
Gotcha, yes if you need simple triggered applications for other items, a 5 pin will work perfectly for each and the same as a 4 pin would, generally. Just use 86/85/30/87 and you'll be good.

I usually run 5 pins for all of my needs because I don't find that many 4 pins. Even the factory used a lot of unnecessary 5 pins for 4 pin applications. 5 pins are unnecessary most of the time but are more popular to find.
Click to expand...
Perfect... I've ordered a five pack.

I have another few questions if you would kindly indulge...

This setup is for bumper mounted reverse lights. I would like the relays mounted together at the front near the distribution block I am adding. That means I have to make a run from pin 30 on the relay to the back with 12v power to the LEDs. I can pick up a ground from the relay in the engine bay and will find another out back from the LED lights.

The power to the rear is a long run. What gauge wire should I use to avoid any load loss? Where best to pick up the reverse trigger for pin 86? At a reverse light? If so, that can be a light gauge wire from the tail light to the relay, correct?

@drivincar67 thank you for the link. That's a great build thread. The mod looks easy enough...
 
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MikekiM said:
Perfect... I've ordered a five pack.

I have another few questions if you would kindly indulge...

This setup is for bumper mounted reverse lights. I would like the relays mounted together at the front near the distribution block I am adding. That means I have to make a run from pin 30 on the relay to the back with 12v power to the LEDs. I can pick up a ground from the relay in the engine bay and will find another out back from the LED lights.

The power to the rear is a long run. What gauge wire should I use to avoid any load loss? Where best to pick up the reverse trigger for pin 86? At a reverse light? If so, that can be a light gauge wire from the tail light to the relay, correct?

@drivincar67 thank you for the link. That's a great build thread. The mod looks easy enough...
Click to expand...
What lights will you be using? I used some 2.3A each rigids and they supplied 16AWG. I’d probably use 16 although 18 could likely handle it fine.

For splicing into the backup wiring I believe typically on your 2000, the backup circuit runs from the transmission switch (PNP on auto, reverse switch on manual) up into the engine harness and then transfers into the body harness to go out the cab and down the left side down to the tail lights. If so, you could find that loom in the cab, follow it out to the engine bay and tap in somewhere there so you don’t have to run a wire all the way from tail lights up into the relay and then another wire all the way back down. You’ll still have to do the power wire regardless (and ground probably) but would eliminate a long reverse wire run. If you don’t mind doing the work then you could use the tail light location just fine.
 
machoheadgames said:
What lights will you be using? I used some 2.3A each rigids and they supplied 16AWG. I’d probably use 16 although 18 could likely handle it fine.

For splicing into the backup wiring I believe typically on your 2000, the backup circuit runs from the transmission switch (PNP on auto, reverse switch on manual) up into the engine harness and then transfers into the body harness to go out the cab and down the left side down to the tail lights. If so, you could find that loom in the cab, follow it out to the engine bay and tap in somewhere there so you don’t have to run a wire all the way from tail lights up into the relay and then another wire all the way back down. You’ll still have to do the power wire regardless (and ground probably) but would eliminate a long reverse wire run. If you don’t mind doing the work then you could use the tail light location just fine.
Click to expand...
Going to use one of the following...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GR23FGJ/?tag=wranglerorg-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J5AAX5S/?tag=wranglerorg-20
 
MikekiM said:
I couldn't find it either.

I'll have dig around for the backup circuit.
Thank you!!
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There’s usually a big square plug above the engine on the firewall, those usually transfer over engine wiring to the body so they can get to the PCM or gauges or whatever. I would figure out what color you’re looking for and check that plug, it’s probably in there.
 
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@MikekiM

Two years later, I think I'm finally about to install some aux reverse lights.

How did you end up running your wires from the relay to the reverse lights? Under the tub and somehow tucked away from trouble, or inside the tub under the 'lip' where the tub meets the top?
 
SSTJ said:
@MikekiM

Two years later, I think I'm finally about to install some aux reverse lights.

How did you end up running your wires from the relay to the reverse lights? Under the tub and somehow tucked away from trouble, or inside the tub under the 'lip' where the tub meets the top?
Click to expand...

I ran mine zip tied to the factory harness along the inside of the tub on the driver's side.
 
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SSTJ said:
@MikekiM

Two years later, I think I'm finally about to install some aux reverse lights.

How did you end up running your wires from the relay to the reverse lights? Under the tub and somehow tucked away from trouble, or inside the tub under the 'lip' where the tub meets the top?
Click to expand...
C.J. Roberts said:
I ran mine zip tied to the factory harness along the inside of the tub on the driver's side.
Click to expand...
I have two sets of aux reverse lights.. one under the rear bumper using the gas tank mounting bolts and a second set on the removable Bestop cargo basket.

The sheathed harness for the under bumper set runs out of the Auxbeam relay panel mounted on the passenger side radiator support, along the firewall above the PCM, down and into the passenger side frame rail exiting at the rear just in front of the passenger side rear bumper mount and terminates with a waterproof quick disconnect.

The sheathed harness for the basket mounted lights runs from the Auxbeam relay panel through the firewall, down along the tub on the passenger side above the jack rods, up to and mounted under the belt rail and terminates at a four pin waterproof quick disconnect that sits under the carpet behind the roll bar when not in use and connects to the harness on the basket when that's installed. I ran this one in the tub because it's bundled with another aux light harness that feeds the LED lights illuminating under the Bestop Instatrunk and another that is mounted under the cargo basket illuminating the tailgate table. Both of those are controlled by a pin switch mounted in the tailgate surround with an override switch so I can turn them off when the tailgate is open but lights aren't needed. I pulled dedicated constant hot power from the Painless Performance CirKit panel that adds additional switched and un-switched circuits.
 
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My driver side is already a bit crowded with the OEM reverse wiring hardness, plus my CB coax. If I do passenger side, it may be time to drill a new hole under the battery tray.
 
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