I-6 coming back to Jeep!

To a point. You're talking the old skool Mercedes philosophy- that they've long since lost touch with. As much as new cars cost, I don't think its unreasonable to expect quality. Unrealistic, probably. Unreasonable, Hell no! A quality automobile wouldn't cost any more than the crap they're turning out now *IF* they'd dump the fucking "technology" and put the money towards basic longevity. But the sad fact is that nobody gives a damn about reliability, longevity, or even affordability now. Its all about the smartphone!

I think vehicles in general are as reliable and lasting as they've ever been. And I think gasoline tdi engines are still at least as good as most of what we could get in the 90s. I just don't like that auto repair costs have skyrocketed since the 90s, and with high repair costs I expected lower repair incidence.

The sticker price inflation we've seen over the past 20 years has been caused primarily by the advent of 0%, 84 month financing because the typical new car buyer is too dumb to look past the monthly payment. Some of that cost increase has gone to overall increased longevity, but unfortunately the bulk of it has gone into added tech that nobody asked for and has brought us to a point where the overwhelming majority of quality and reliability issues (and warranty claims) are electronic/infotainment related.
 
If they can fit that 392 Hemi in there without enlarging the engine bay (or did they?) then this thing should fit no problem I would think.
You sure about that? That 392 Hemi is a big sucker. I don’t actually know the measurements so I can’t compare, I just know it’s pretty big. We will see though! Either way it’s time for a new engine option.
I’ve had the I6 and the Hemi side by side, and the I6 is a good bit longer.

When I went into the Hemi swap, I thought I would have plenty of room for the Hemi since the I6 is longer, but that was not the case. The shape of the firewall allows the narrow I6 to be mounted much further back than the much wider Hemi. It was a challenge leaving enough room for the fan. But, the location did allow for a longer driveline.

It will be interesting to see if this new I6 will fit into the JL, or if they wait for the JM…
 
I’ve had the I6 and the Hemi side by side, and the I6 is a good bit longer.

When I went into the Hemi swap, I thought I would have plenty of room for the Hemi since the I6 is longer, but that was not the case. The shape of the firewall allows the narrow I6 to be mounted much further back than the much wider Hemi. It was a challenge leaving enough room for the fan. But, the location did allow for a longer driveline.

It will be interesting to see if this new I6 will fit into the JL, or if they wait fir the JM…

You have the 392? I ask because I thought the 5.7 was a bit smaller than the 392. In any case, it will be interesting to see what they do. I have to imagine they'll find a way for it to fit without having to redo a bunch of things.
 
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My dad had a 1981 Blazer his company gave him as a work truck. He had the transmission replaced three times in 60k miles, 90% of that was Highway driving.
I had a 91 1500 with a 700R4 that I had rebuilt four times in five years. Even our TJs have constant problems and pets failures.

We had a 2009 Kia Sorento that my son is now driving. It has over 250k on it and still going strong. 🤷🏼‍♂️
Yep. The 700R4 was the biggest pile of garbage of a transmission GM ever made. I can't imagine how they designed that piece of crap after the fantastic TH 400.
 
I think vehicles in general are as reliable and lasting as they've ever been. And I think gasoline tdi engines are still at least as good as most of what we could get in the 90s. I just don't like that auto repair costs have skyrocketed since the 90s, and with high repair costs I expected lower repair incidence.

The sticker price inflation we've seen over the past 20 years has been caused primarily by the advent of 0%, 84 month financing because the typical new car buyer is too dumb to look past the monthly payment. Some of that cost increase has gone to overall increased longevity, but unfortunately the bulk of it has gone into added tech that nobody asked for and has brought us to a point where the overwhelming majority of quality and reliability issues (and warranty claims) are electronic/infotainment related.
WORD. {INSERT RANT HERE}
 
You have the 392? I ask because I thought the 5.7 was a bit smaller than the 392. In any case, it will be interesting to see what they do. I have to imagine they'll find a way for it to fit without having to redo a bunch of things.
Mine started out as an ‘06 Ram 5.7 Hemi, bored and stroked to about 400 - although I still refer to it as a 392 for the cool factor (at least in my mind🙂).

I’m not positive, but I believe the block sizes are similar. The difference between the new Gen IV 392‘s and the Gen III 5.7’s (my Ram version anyway) is the configuration and location of the accessories and throttle body. I don’t believe you can get the Gen IV into a TJ without modifying the frame for clearance.
 
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I think vehicles in general are as reliable and lasting as they've ever been. And I think gasoline tdi engines are still at least as good as most of what we could get in the 90s. I just don't like that auto repair costs have skyrocketed since the 90s, and with high repair costs I expected lower repair incidence.

The sticker price inflation we've seen over the past 20 years has been caused primarily by the advent of 0%, 84 month financing because the typical new car buyer is too dumb to look past the monthly payment. Some of that cost increase has gone to overall increased longevity, but unfortunately the bulk of it has gone into added tech that nobody asked for and has brought us to a point where the overwhelming majority of quality and reliability issues (and warranty claims) are electronic/infotainment related.
My purchase of a TJ was driven by the desire to have something that was more mechanical than electronic that I could mostly work on myself. I've never been much of a car guy and most of my shade tree mechanic-ing has been limited to oil changes, brakes, batteries, and the occasional alternator and starter. I've done more work on my 97 SE than I've done on any other vehicle I've ever owned. That has been a big motivator for me to start doing work on my 2004 Ram. It's still fairly simple compared to the newer cars and if I can do it myself then I'm not stuck with a $125/hour shop bill for repairs and maintenance.
 
I’ve had the I6 and the Hemi side by side, and the I6 is a good bit longer.

When I went into the Hemi swap, I thought I would have plenty of room for the Hemi since the I6 is longer, but that was not the case. The shape of the firewall allows the narrow I6 to be mounted much further back than the much wider Hemi. It was a challenge leaving enough room for the fan. But, the location did allow for a longer driveline.

It will be interesting to see if this new I6 will fit into the JL, or if they wait for the JM…
I6 are hard to package in modern vehicle proportions. The only way BMW pulled off the relatively short hood for the E90 was by tucking half of the engine back under the cowl.

WP_20160115_16_36_21_Pro.jpg


Which is why removing the cabin air filter is a step in replacing the spark plugs.

WP_20160115_14_04_24_Pro.jpg


😒
 
The shape of the firewall allows the narrow I6 to be mounted much further back than the much wider Hemi.

Big trucks years ago started running the I6 engines farther back into the firewall. The quest for higher fuel mileage and shorter hoods has the engine intruding into the cab. A lot less leg room now. I cant stretch my legs out anymore. Need to air up the seat and lean forward to see my hood now.
20201001_045840.jpg
 
I’ve had the I6 and the Hemi side by side, and the I6 is a good bit longer.

When I went into the Hemi swap, I thought I would have plenty of room for the Hemi since the I6 is longer, but that was not the case. The shape of the firewall allows the narrow I6 to be mounted much further back than the much wider Hemi. It was a challenge leaving enough room for the fan. But, the location did allow for a longer driveline.

It will be interesting to see if this new I6 will fit into the JL, or if they wait for the JM…

My prediction is that the engine will go into other vehicles first, and then jeep will get it for the next generation (and they will advertise the hell out of a wrangler going back to it's "roots" with perhaps some direct design nods to the TJ :))
 
These problems shouldn't exist, nor should any reputable company ship a product where it does. But such is today's world. "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it."
Things like that in automotive industry or any other manufacturing are not mistakes or done because the engineers don't know any better. Its a combination of "good enough" versus cost and planned obsolescence.
 
I can tell there's a lot of job shop type experience here and a lot of that stuff does go on. The quality produced by the university system is not what it once was, for sure. I had a roommate once who was in many of my classes...knew how to study and get good grades (often better than me), but couldn't engineer his way out of a paper bag. Programmers have gotten lazy because they have so much hardware headroom that they can afford to be, and worst case if the screw up they just roll it and the 100 other bugs discovered that week into a patch that gets installed automatically the next Tuesday. There's no skin in the game and mediocrity is tolerated, even expected.

Having spent some years as a product and system design engineer in volume equipment manufacturing for a company that spent millions, if not billions modeling it's entire product design process after automotive manufacturers like Toyota, I can tell you automotive manufacturing exists in a completely different universe. They have this thing called warranty claims that can sink a project in a hurry, and if a real quality issue escapes they could have half a million or more problems out there before they even know about it. No single part makes it to launch without going through multiple reviews by cross functional teams or designers, mfg engineers, and "independent" reviewers not on the project to provide a critical eye outside of groupthink. And usually those are senior engineers that know a thing or two. A system like an engine would include multiple independent subject matter experts all the way up to the chief engineer at the company whose close to retirement and as salty as they come and won't hesitate to send a young design engineer out of a review meeting sobbing as they question every life choice that led up to that day.

So an engineer just screwing something up by a lack of fundamentals being the explanation for why gasoline tdi engines still haven't matched traditional gas engines in terms of maintenance and longevity is preposterous. They might let something small slip (like painting frames before the welds have cooled off enough), but when it comes to powertrain, they've put it through so much testing and data analysis that they know exactly what they're doing and putting out an engine that needs a timing chain every 80k miles or starts blowing itself up once the lowest-bidder sensors have drifted or the owner uses oil that isn't at the very latest API standard is DELIBERATE. They've had engineering, marketing, and finance all in a room together consciously making a decision that this balance is what's most profitable for the shareholders, because product cost, sale price, and expected warranty claims are balanced and optimized to paint the best possible picture on the next quarterly and annual reports. They've arrived at that conclusion based on a list of thousands of things that could go wrong, with each line understood, prioritized, and either addressed or deemed an acceptable risk. That's where most of the misses occur...not in design fundamentals but in miscalculating where the right balance is in whether a known issue needs to be solved or whether it will most often wait to show up until the warranty has expired.
Great insight ! This reminds me of Ford being aware of the Pinto explosive /fire situation. Due to improper assembly and design issues people would die in Pintos. Ford literally ran the numbers on the number of rear end collisions, how many would result in fires ,
how many folks get burned or die in the collisions, how many would sue Ford, then how many would win in court and what would the awards be. Ford decided to " let it ride " and let people try to win in court rather than spend $ 3.00 per Pinto to correct the problem. Such is the profit margin business model. :sneaky:
 
What are the cylinder walls coated with?
Steel. It's a plasma arc melting a steel wire and spraying it onto the cylinder where the impact velocity flattens the droplets at the very instant they solidify. It was invented in 2009 and Ford was the first to use it.
 
What's truly amazing about this news, is how hypocritical a lot of Jeep people are. We hear it all the time as to how Jeep stopped being a TRUE jeep with the deletion of the I-6 for a V-6. I see almost daily across forums how Jeep folk would only purchase a new Jeep if it had an I-6 in it. We can show with the replies in this post that they are ingenuous about that, and that they really aren't capable or willing to allow their vehicle to evolve to be continuously better than the vehicle they are emotionally bonded to.

Look, I get it... in 1990 my dad ordered a YJ new with a carburetor on the 242 I-6 solely because he wanted the ability to be able to rebuild the fuel system on the trail... that Jeep saw only a couple hundred miles of offroading in the 2 years he owned it... My 2020 JT has seen twice as many offroad miles in the same amount of time, and is far more capable that the YJ ever could be. The TJ isn't any better than the new Jeeps either... It amazes me how such a primitive vehicle cannot operate without the computer, and with the lack of support now for the computer, how long until the TJs are relegated as relics?

I really look forward to seeing what this new I-6 can do, and how it's integrated into the current vehicles. There are rumors and unconfirmed reports that it will be in production in the 2023 MY Gladiator, and RAM line. If they brought back the Gator Green in 2024 MY with the I-6 I could be tempted to trade in my current JT...
 
What's truly amazing about this news, is how hypocritical a lot of Jeep people are. We hear it all the time as to how Jeep stopped being a TRUE jeep with the deletion of the I-6 for a V-6. I see almost daily across forums how Jeep folk would only purchase a new Jeep if it had an I-6 in it. We can show with the replies in this post that they are ingenuous about that, and that they really aren't capable or willing to allow their vehicle to evolve to be continuously better than the vehicle they are emotionally bonded to.

Look, I get it... in 1990 my dad ordered a YJ new with a carburetor on the 242 I-6 solely because he wanted the ability to be able to rebuild the fuel system on the trail... that Jeep saw only a couple hundred miles of offroading in the 2 years he owned it... My 2020 JT has seen twice as many offroad miles in the same amount of time, and is far more capable that the YJ ever could be. The TJ isn't any better than the new Jeeps either... It amazes me how such a primitive vehicle cannot operate without the computer, and with the lack of support now for the computer, how long until the TJs are relegated as relics?

I really look forward to seeing what this new I-6 can do, and how it's integrated into the current vehicles. There are rumors and unconfirmed reports that it will be in production in the 2023 MY Gladiator, and RAM line. If they brought back the Gator Green in 2024 MY with the I-6 I could be tempted to trade in my current JT...

FWIW, though the I-6 is far and away my favorite engine configuration in any vehicle, the move away from the I6 isn't what turns me off of newer Jeeps. I hate the styling of the JK and the JL just isn't old enough to fall into what I'm willing to spend on a hobby vehicle yet. I could see myself having a JL sometime around 2040, if Mopar is still supporting it better than they do the TJ. I'll be in my mid 50s by then, and who knows whether my offroading has gotten more or less intense at that age...though if inability to get parts is why I wouldn't have my LJ at that point, I might be pissed off at Jeep at driving a SAS'd, Coyote swapped 2025 Bronco instead.
 
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FWIW, though the I-6 is far and away my favorite engine configuration in any vehicle, the move away from the I6 isn't what turns me off of newer Jeeps. I hate the styling of the JK and the JL just isn't old enough to fall into what I'm willing to spend on a hobby vehicle yet. I could see myself having a JL sometime around 2040, if Mopar is still supporting it better than they do the TJ. I'll be in my mid 50s by then, and who knows whether my offroading has gotten more or less intense at that age...though if inability to get parts is why I wouldn't have my LJ at that point, I might be pissed off at Jeep at driving a SAS'd, Coyote swapped 2025 Bronco instead.
Too big, touchscreen in dash, too much "technology".
 
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