I get why people are buying $50K+ new Wranglers

[RustyAutoholicGuy]

This hit me last night while I was trying to figure out everything I needed to do to wrap up my build on my diesel swapped TJ. I've wanted a diesel Wrangler ever since I got my Diesel Liberty back in 2014, that Jeep really changed my understanding of torque vs horsepower. I'm not saying diesel is the best style of engine for everyone, there are times where you want to have horsepower when you are wheelings, I just not that type of driver.

So just out of curiosity I went to Jeep's site last night and built what would be my ideal Wrangler just to see how expensive it would be and while it is expensive it wasn't as much money as I thought it would be.

Looking at that price compared to what I paid for all my Jeeps I've gotten in the last 4 years and especially for the amount of money I've dumped into my diesel swap which I'm now on my second driveline setup, I could have very easily spent a little bit more money and just gotten a new diesel Wrangler JL and my family could have easily fit in it as well.

My kids are really getting too big for my LJ and after how long I've been building my TJ, I'm no longer sure what I'm going to be doing with my LJ. I still absolutely detest the NSG370 6-speed manual, that transmission makes no sense to me at all.

I don't know, I think the lack of wheeling I've done over the last 2½ years is really catching up to me now and I'm still having to do so much to my TJ to get it finished isn't helping either.

Point being I get why people are not getting TJs and going with JL instead. I won't sell my TJ, too much work when into it and I really think it's the perfect size for the type of wheeling I do, especially for where I live as well. With that said though if I was just getting into a Wrangler and I knew I wanted a diesel, I would not have gotten a TJ, I would have gotten a diesel JL instead.

-Grant

 

[Apparition]

Have you driven one?

 

[RMETeeJay]

I get wanting a diesel (I also had a CRD KJ), but I wouldn't buy a vehicle I intended to actually wheel with that long of a wheelbase.

 

[JEEPCJTJ]

For almost 15 years I had no understanding of the 4 door Wranglers. After the last few months of putting our 20 lb dog into the back seat of the wife's 2 door JK (that my never be very far off road), I kinda wish her's was a 4 door. Of course bigger dogs and kids need even more room.

I've always liked diesel engines. I've never had a truck with one but I've owned several VW's. Before the TDI they were fairly slow but I never had a problem with one. I taught my daughter to drive a stick shift in a diesel Rabbit Truck and as much as she didn't want to bother she never stalled the engine, even starting out on a hill. Unfortunately my last ever diesel VW, a TDI with an automatic, gave me several problems, ALL of them either electrical or electronic.

With those types of problems, which I've also experienced in several other vehicles built after 1995, I'm not sure I'll ever buy something new again.

I'm not telling anyone what to buy or not buy. You can buy whatever works for you today, just make sure you keep what you'll still love once the kids are driving around on their own.

 

[cliffish]

IDK but at $62K out the door here in NY, I would have a very hard time doing that. The most expensive vehicle I ever bought was $34K and that was my wife's 1 yo Benz. I could afford the rig but could not stomach those payments for 5 years.

 

[SvtLdr]

Question for you @RustyAutoholicGuy. If you were to proceed with buying your "ideal Wrangler" shown above, would you wheel it the same way you would your current Jeeps? Would your style of wheeling change because of the age/ price of the vehicle?

 

[DaveF]

I've wheeled with a few of those 60k Jeeps out of the factory, they all come back with > 20k in upgrades down the road to handle the trail... so you're really looking at 80k or more if you want to do any real wheeling it seems.

And then you get to gatekeepers where the 4 doors spend 20 minutes trying to get through without scraping, or breaking a window or some such, I've even seen them have to back through one.... but my LJ can drive through in 30 seconds due to size...

I get the desire for new/easy, but new/easy isn't always better. For light wheeling in open areas, overlanding.... or to just use as an SUV etc... sure the newer ones with more interior space would be good, but they are just too big for me.

 

[InOmaha]

How does the diesel do with all the emissions stuff on it? The normal gas recirc stuff but you even have to add urea.

 

[Zorba]

For almost 15 years I had no understanding of the 4 door Wranglers. After the last few months of putting our 20 lb dog into the back seat of the wife's 2 door JK (that my never be very far off road), I kinda wish her's was a 4 door. Of course bigger dogs and kids need even more room.

I've always liked diesel engines. I've never had a truck with one but I've owned several VW's. Before the TDI they were fairly slow but I never had a problem with one. I taught my daughter to drive a stick shift in a diesel Rabbit Truck and as much as she didn't want to bother she never stalled the engine, even starting out on a hill. Unfortunately my last ever diesel VW, a TDI with an automatic, gave me several problems, ALL of them either electrical or electronic.

With those types of problems, which I've also experienced in several other vehicles built after 1995, I'm not sure I'll ever buy something new again.

I'm not telling anyone what to buy or not buy. You can buy whatever works for you today, just make sure you keep what you'll still love once the kids are driving around on their own.

I could have written this.

'96 Passat TDI. WONDERFUL engine, nice (manual) tranny. All sorts of electric/electronic problems. Like you, I'm pretty much "done" with new vehicles, and I've been accused of being the reincarnation of ol' Rudolf himself as I really don't see the point of fooling around with inefficient, torqueless gasoline engines - although there are a few that have earned my respect, the 4.0 being one of them.

 

[RustyAutoholicGuy]

Have you driven one?

Not yet, though I'm hoping to drive one soon.

I get wanting a diesel (I also had a CRD KJ), but I wouldn't buy a vehicle I intended to actually wheel with that long of a wheelbase.

I would buy it just as a family vehicle that I could take my family wheeling and overlanding with. Again if I was just getting into Wranglers this would be a very tempting option.

For almost 15 years I had no understanding of the 4 door Wranglers. After the last few months of putting our 20 lb dog into the back seat of the wife's 2 door JK (that my never be very far off road), I kinda wish her's was a 4 door. Of course bigger dogs and kids need even more room.

I've always liked diesel engines. I've never had a truck with one but I've owned several VW's. Before the TDI they were fairly slow but I never had a problem with one. I taught my daughter to drive a stick shift in a diesel Rabbit Truck and as much as she didn't want to bother she never stalled the engine, even starting out on a hill. Unfortunately my last ever diesel VW, a TDI with an automatic, gave me several problems, ALL of them either electrical or electronic.

With those types of problems, which I've also experienced in several other vehicles built after 1995, I'm not sure I'll ever buy something new again.

I'm not telling anyone what to buy or not buy. You can buy whatever works for you today, just make sure you keep what you'll still love once the kids are driving around on their own.

Yeah my track record with TDIs is less than stellar, though I've driven several other TDIs owned by other people that were fantastic, the one I bought I should have walked away from when I got to the dealership but that is story for another day!

I also agree with you as well, having two kids, dogs and having to load groceries and what not, a 4 door makes life so much easier. I like the 4 door Wrangler, I've been trying to get one at a good deal for the last few years, I ended up with an LJ which works but with my kids getting older and bigger, having two more doors would be plus for sure!

IDK but at $62K out the door here in NY, I would have a very hard time doing that. The most expensive vehicle I ever bought was $34K and that was my wife's 1 yo Benz. I could afford the rig but could not stomach those payments for 5 years.

I would put a good portion of that cost down with cash, but yeah the payments would not be great for the first few years.

Question for you @RustyAutoholicGuy. If you were to proceed with buying your "ideal Wrangler" shown above, would you wheel it the same way you would your current Jeeps? Would your style of wheeling change because of the age/ price of the vehicle?

There would be a few things I would not do for sure, just because of the sheer size of the JL Wrangler however my thing really is overlanding and camping, which in many aspects.

One positive is my wife really loves the newer 4 door Wranglers, she is not the biggest fan of my TJ because of the two doors, so it would also mean more adventures and trips with my wife which would be a plus.

I've wheeled with a few of those 60k Jeeps out of the factory, they all come back with > 20k in upgrades down the road to handle the trail... so you're really looking at 80k or more if you want to do any real wheeling it seems.

And then you get to gatekeepers where the 4 doors spend 20 minutes trying to get through without scraping, or breaking a window or some such, I've even seen them have to back through one.... but my LJ can drive through in 30 seconds due to size...

I get the desire for new/easy, but new/easy isn't always better. For light wheeling in open areas, overlanding.... or to just use as an SUV etc... sure the newer ones with more interior space would be good, but they are just too big for me.

You bring up a good point. I would take this JL Wrangler to Moab and not think twice about, though I've never been been so maybe that would change once I got there.

I would really view this as a family vehicle that I could take the entire family on some "light" wheeling and overlanding while being comfortable and have enough room for everything I would want to bring with me.

Honestly at some point I see myself getting a diesel Gladiator. Having a truck where I live would be really helpful though I would not get a Rubicon model, I would just get a the lowest end model that would let me have a diesel engine with leather interior.

I would be able to tow my TJ and my CJ-2A with it while also doing the truck things I would need to do with WHILE also having enough room for my wife and kids.

-Grant

 

[RustyAutoholicGuy]

How does the diesel do with all the emissions stuff on it? The normal gas recirc stuff but you even have to add urea.

I'm guessing you mean the DEF fluid, that doesn't bother me, I have a rather unique few point on diesels, I like them as clean and efficient as possible. I still hate the dieselgate crap Volkswagen caused, that is going to hurt diesels for a long time.

I could have written this.

'96 Passat TDI. WONDERFUL engine, nice (manual) tranny. All sorts of electric/electronic problems. Like you, I'm pretty much "done" with new vehicles, and I've been accused of being the reincarnation of ol' Rudolf himself as I really don't see the point of fooling around with inefficient, torqueless gasoline engines - although there are a few that have earned my respect, the 4.0 being one of them.

Yeah if I were to go with a TDI setup in a Jeep, I would go with the ALH from 1998?~2004? (I don't remember the exact years) and go completely mechanical with the setup so there was no computer. Plenty of power and torque, with several upgrades and none of the headaches of the ECU/VAG stuff from Volkswagen.

It's why I love my Kubota so much, purely mechanically light weight diesel, the only real downside with my Kubota is the low RPM limit of 3300rpm.

-Grant

 

[zebra12]

I tried to talk my wife into a JLUR. Kids thought it was cool, but the boss wasn't having it. Hopefully, the Bronco has a nicer ride.

 

[Apparition]

Looking forward to your thoughts after driving one.

 

[RWerksman]

I was big on diesel vehicles for the longest time. As I get older, and look at them more though, I've changed my mind. The cost to benefit ration just isn't there.

Specifically with the JLUR, the Pentastar engine is so good (I've had two now, including in my current Gladiator Rubicon) why even bother? More range, a bit more grunt, and just being a bit different?

 

[RustyAutoholicGuy]

Looking forward to your thoughts after driving one.

Yeah I'm going to test drive the Gladiator and the Wrangler next month, I know my wife wants me to get the Gladiator. For my purpose, the Gladiator makes a lot of sense on paper though I really want the Wrangler, I just like the way it looks. With that said the Gladiator's utility for my particular need has it's purpose, especially considering I have a TJ and CJ-2a already. I could tow my TJ and CJ-2A with a Gladiator as well which would be great as well.

I was big on diesel vehicles for the longest time. As I get older, and look at them more though, I've changed my mind. The cost to benefit ration just isn't there.

Specifically with the JLUR, the Pentastar engine is so good (I've had two now, including in my current Gladiator Rubicon) why even bother? More range, a bit more grunt, and just being a bit different?

I would still pick the diesel, personal preference, I do like the better fuel economy and lower torque band, yes it's heavier and it cost more money up front, but I usually keep Jeeps for a very long time, with the cost of diesel in my area combined with the better fuel economy, I would make up the that cost though I'm not too worried about that it either.

Regardless of cost though, I just like diesel better, the low end torque is thing, I have driven a Pentastar 3.6 before and it's a good motor, but I like the feel and pull of a diesel engine better.

-Grant

 

[DaveF]

Honestly at some point I see myself getting a diesel Gladiator. Having a truck where I live would be really helpful though I would not get a Rubicon model, I would just get a the lowest end model that would let me have a diesel engine with leather interior.

I would be able to tow my TJ and my CJ-2A with it while also doing the truck things I would need to do with WHILE also having enough room for my wife and kids.

-Grant

Personally, I wouldn't use a Gladiator to tow a Jeep, unless maybe you're flat towing... 7k tow rating = Jeep at say 4500+ lbs and trailer at 2k lbs... you're right at that limit. Guessing like most light trucks to actually tow more than like 5500 you also need to deal with weight distributing hitch as well, which also adds weight. Light trucks just can't tow 6-7k lbs safely for long distance IMO (weight, wheel base, etc). Better to get at least a half ton full size for that. That's why I traded in my Canyon for a larger truck after doing the research.

 

[DaveF]

I'm guessing you mean the DEF fluid,

"DEF fluid" LOL this always triggers me, it's like saying "Diesel Exhaust fluid fluid", or in my IT world, NIC Card = network interface card card.

maybe it's just me though

 

[Zorba]

I would still pick the diesel, personal preference, I do like the better fuel economy and lower torque band, yes it's heavier and it cost more money up front, but I usually keep Jeeps for a very long time, with the cost of diesel in my area combined with the better fuel economy, I would make up the that cost though I'm not too worried about that it either.

Regardless of cost though, I just like diesel better, the low end torque is thing, I have driven a Pentastar 3.6 before and it's a good motor, but I like the feel and pull of a diesel engine better.

-Grant

I do too. To me, a diesel is just more driveable, although most are best with more gears due to the narrow torque band. Something about low speed torque just does it for me. That's why I drive a 36 year old Mercedes!

 

[RustyAutoholicGuy]

Personally, I wouldn't use a Gladiator to tow a Jeep, unless maybe you're flat towing... 7k tow rating = Jeep at say 4500+ lbs and trailer at 2k lbs... you're right at that limit. Guessing like most light trucks to actually tow more than like 5500 you also need to deal with weight distributing hitch as well, which also adds weight. Light trucks just can't tow 6-7k lbs safely for long distance IMO (weight, wheel base, etc). Better to get at least a half ton full size for that. That's why I traded in my Canyon for a larger truck after doing the research.

Those are some good points on towing and I've done long tows before as well. I would get an aluminum trailer for the Gladiator to reduce weight and my Jeep is not that heavy, I've built it light on purpose so I'm well below that weight limit, also I would not primarily towing my TJ, more on a "crap I broke something" the Gladiator could do it. I would mostly be towing my CJ-2A which will be something like 2200lbs when I'm done with it so the tow rating of 7K is going to be well within my requirements just fine.

"DEF fluid" LOL this always triggers me, it's like saying "Diesel Exhaust fluid fluid", or in my IT world, NIC Card = network interface card card.

maybe it's just me though

Yeah good point, its the same thing when people say ATM machine

I do too. To me, a diesel is just more driveable, although most are best with more gears due to the narrow torque band. Something about low speed torque just does it for me. That's why I drive a 36 year old Mercedes!

Exactly, it's why I went with a Ford 6r80 6-speed automatic in my TJ Wrangler, granny low first gear with two overdrive gears so I have a good torque band for 50 ~ 63mph and then another gear for 65mph+

-Grant

 

[Apparition]

Personally, I wouldn't use a Gladiator to tow a Jeep, unless maybe you're flat towing... 7k tow rating = Jeep at say 4500+ lbs and trailer at 2k lbs... you're right at that limit. Guessing like most light trucks to actually tow more than like 5500 you also need to deal with weight distributing hitch as well, which also adds weight. Light trucks just can't tow 6-7k lbs safely for long distance IMO (weight, wheel base, etc). Better to get at least a half ton full size for that. That's why I traded in my Canyon for a larger truck after doing the research.

And you can get the half ton for less money.