Looking for 4.6 stroker engine feedback

FIFY.

It's a pet peeve of mine that many lump cam issues in with the parts that make a stroker.

I addressed this in the same post if you read a bit further.

if someone was really worried they could put their stock cam and lifters back into a rebuilt and or stroked 4.0l. Add a ported big valve head for better flow

Don’t believe you want big ported heads for a turbo to come on where we want it to on the straight six. Same for larger collector tubes since you want velocity. I’d prefer my turbo come on sooner so it’s noticeably helpful in the mid range as well as the upper range..

Nitrided cams are supposed to solve the cam lobe issue. But finding quality lifters is still a problem.

That’s the hope, but I haven’t seen if that case hardening process has solved the issue.

I asked about lifters above, do we know that the lifters are causing problems?
 
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FIFY.

It's a pet peeve of mine that many lump cam issues in with the parts that make a stroker.

if someone was really worried they could put their stock cam and lifters back into a rebuilt and or stroked 4.0l. Add a ported big valve head for better flow

Nitrided cams are supposed to solve the cam lobe issue. But finding quality lifters is still a problem.

Do you absolutely have to change lifters if you install a new cam? I know its ideal to break them in together, but can you break a new cam into an old set of lifters?
 
Do you absolutely have to change lifters if you install a new cam? I know its ideal to break them in together, but can you break a new cam into an old set of lifters?

I’ve looked into this since I’ve had a random lifter tick issue on startup.

From what I read, you should change the lifters if you change the cam.

And it’s recommended to change the cam if you change the lifters, but there’s debate on if it’s as necessary.

I didn’t feel confident enough in only changing the lifters so I left it alone. A lifter will randomly tick on startup but hasn’t done it in a few months. It’s very easy to shut the vehicle off and then turn it back on if it happens, so I’ll likely leave it alone until it’s time for a full rebuild.
 
Lucas sells a zinc additive

Stay away from additives like that, they tend to not blend into the oils, counteract the additive packages in those oils, and mix ratios are usually happenstance at best. ZDDP above about 1800-2000 PPM becomes corrosive. If you want a higher ZDDP oil, buy it that way.
 
Nitrided cams are supposed to solve the cam lobe issue. But finding quality lifters is still a problem.

I fat fingered the send button before discussing more about nitriding.

I’ve seen folks say a nitrided cam can still fail since only a thin outer layer is hardened and the core of the cast iron’s hardness is lowered in the process. That layer can vary as well.

It seems like it would work as long as the hardened layer is thick enough that it will never be worn through. I’d happily pay extra to folks who do proper QC on something like this.
 
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Do you absolutely have to change lifters if you install a new cam? I know its ideal to break them in together, but can you break a new cam into an old set of lifters?

From what I've been taught, it depends, and really it's a gamble. I've heard of guys polishing old lifter faces so that they can mate to a new/different cam.

A lifter will randomly tick on startup but hasn’t done it in a few months. It’s very easy to shut the vehicle off and then turn it back on if it happens, so I’ll likely leave it alone until it’s time for a full rebuild.

It's probably just leaking down and needs a few seconds to pump up. Will it go away without killing and restarting?
 
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Stay away from additives like that, they tend to not blend into the oils, counteract the additive packages in those oils, and mix ratios are usually happenstance at best. ZDDP above about 1800-2000 PPM becomes corrosive. If you want a higher ZDDP oil, buy it that way.

Good to know. My Redline 5w-30 comes with more ZDDP in it. FWIW, they said their oil won’t cause any issues with the engine or cats.
 
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It's probably just leaking down and needs a few second to pump up. Will it go away without killing and restarting?

That’s what I’ve concluded as well since it’s been like this since I purchased it.

I don’t let it run since it sounds like a big no no when it happens. But it goes away when I restart it after waiting a few seconds. It hasn’t happened nearly as often since I changed the oil pump that fit extremely loosely with its pickup tube. Could be unrelated, but maybe not if oil was falling back into the sump or simply not pumping enough on startup.

It’s the typical startup tick we read about that can happen three times in two days and then only once every 3-6 months. No issues when I’m driving under any load.
 
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@BlueC you are a great person to ask about hardening the cam lobes.

If you were choosing a cam for longevity, what processes would you want the cam to have gone through?

In unrelated projects, we had our parts through hardened to a specific hardness. But, I assume case hardening is better for this application to prevent deformation of the rest of the cam.
 
@BlueC you are a great person to ask about hardening the cam lobes.

You must have me mixed up with someone else. I'm just a weekend hot rod-gearhead. If I was to give an opinion on making a flat tappet last, the first thing I'd recommend is the lightest spring pressure possible and the right oil. After that, I'm as lost as anyone else. I've heard/read about nitrided cams being warped, and I've heard of new lifters coming out of the box with a perfectly flat face, which is a QC issue and will wipe a lobe. I guess my second suggestion would be to check your parts before installing, or maybe that should be first.
 
Dang you’ve had your rig all this time?!

Yea man, how many newish 4.0L builds have we seen fail when reading the forum. Some workers can build a stroker equally as bad as they can build a stock 4.0L.

I always figured your engine had stiffer springs and an aggressive cam based on how choppy and awesome the stroker sounded.

Yep. Bought it right after I got to my first permanent duty station and have had it ever since. And I do have stiff LS springs and a nitrided cam all spec'd by Russ. I will report back on the longevity of that particular setup in the next couple of months as I currently have a small but noticable tapping noise and need to pull the head anyways for an Edelbrock upgrade.

BTW, hit the whoopties on Mason Rd today doing 80 (pissing off the wife but making the kids happy) just past Hass Cider Mill 🤓
 
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I addressed this in the same post if you read a bit further.



Don’t believe you want big ported heads for a turbo to come on where we want it to on the straight six. Same for larger collector tubes since you want velocity. I’d prefer my turbo come on sooner so it’s noticeably helpful in the mid range as well as the upper range..



That’s the hope, but I haven’t seen if that case hardening process has solved the issue.

I asked about lifters above, do we know that the lifters are causing problems?

I wasn't accusing you of thinking that about strokers. Just addressing the first sentence😉

The part about a big valve head was to address having a stock cam but wanting more airflow.either for a stroker or otherwise. With a turbo idk? Maybe jezza would have something to say about that?

The lifters i don't have any links but i do remember seeing pics of new lifters ground to the wrong shape and with other poor tolerances. Hylift johnson was one of the few remaining decent companies. But who knows. They are probably bankrupt or made in china like every other industry now

I've read all that same stuff about nitrided cams. I checked mine in several places to make sure it was straight. 🤞
 
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Do you absolutely have to change lifters if you install a new cam? I know its ideal to break them in together, but can you break a new cam into an old set of lifters?

As far as i know it is old cam/old good lifters on same lobes,old cam/new lifters, or new/new.

Old lifters don't wear into a new cam or different lobes well or at all
 
Don’t believe you want big ported heads for a turbo to come on where we want it to on the straight six. Same for larger collector tubes since you want velocity. I’d prefer my turbo come on sooner so it’s noticeably helpful in the mid range as well as the upper range..

the way russ explained stock vs stroker to me was by comparing small and big block motors. A big cam,port or valve for a small block will only be adequate for a big block.he was disappointed in me when i insisted on going with a smaller cam than @SkylinesSuck . I probably wouldn't have lost much off idle torque and would have had impressive wot gains. But hey i can still do a big valve ported head and larger cam later!

When i compare stroker 280 ci valve,port and cam size to lets say the 289 in my old mustang it really is a lot of flow to be asking of the amc per cylinder. I imagine a turbo 4.0l could benefit from more air too. Cooler egts and power? I know exhaust volume from chamber to turbine can affect spool up. Doesn't mean flow is bad though right?
 
Yep. Bought it right after I got to my first permanent duty station and have had it ever since. And I do have stiff LS springs and a nitrided cam all spec'd by Russ. I will report back on the longevity of that particular setup in the next couple of months as I currently have a small but noticable tapping noise and need to pull the head anyways for an Edelbrock upgrade.

This hits hard because our timelines are similar. Can't imagine how attached I'd be to my rig if I had it that long. Sounds good on the engine, your input could be super valuable to folks.

BTW, hit the whoopties on Mason Rd today doing 80 (pissing off the wife but making the kids happy) just past Hass Cider Mill 🤓

lol Love it man...I bet your kiddos loved that! 80 mph right there in a TJ would have made me as happy too. On that note, did you take them to Cedar Point? If so, how is it these days?

You gotta get a video of running it at the Norwalk Raceway.
 
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The part about a big valve head was to address having a stock cam but wanting more airflow.either for a stroker or otherwise. With a turbo idk? Maybe jezza would have something to say about that?

Jezza likely knows a good amount about this topic. I believe he said something about a 300hp build being a good balance for power and reliability. He would know since he's been pushing things I haven't seen others push things.

Also, if you make a legit boosted stroker, you then need to address the transmission. The second I think about this, it reminds me to leave things alone...whether that's a stroker or a boosted 4.0L.

Turbos also scare people off due to the belief that it will make the engine unreliable, so I understand where you are coming from.

The lifters i don't have any links but i do remember seeing pics of new lifters ground to the wrong shape and with other poor tolerances. Hylift johnson was one of the few remaining decent companies. But who knows. They are probably bankrupt or made in china like every other industry now

Over the winter, I read that currently offered lifters are pretty much all made in the same place these days. Not sure if it's true, but it wouldn't surprise me. Reviews aren't great on any of the brands RA carries.

the way russ explained stock vs stroker to me was by comparing small and big block motors. A big cam,port or valve for a small block will only be adequate for a big block.he was disappointed in me when i insisted on going with a smaller cam than @SkylinesSuck . I probably wouldn't have lost much off idle torque and would have had impressive wot gains. But hey i can still do a big valve ported head and larger cam later!

I would have gone with the smaller cam as well if it meant my build would be more reliable. Is that why you went smaller? I assume that his disappointment was based on him thinking that if you go with a smaller cam, then why do some of the other stuff you chose.

When i compare stroker 280 ci valve,port and cam size to lets say the 289 in my old mustang it really is a lot of flow to be asking of the amc per cylinder. I imagine a turbo 4.0l could benefit from more air too. Cooler egts and power? I know exhaust volume from chamber to turbine can affect spool up. Doesn't mean flow is bad though right?

My EGTs stay in a nice range, so I'll likely sell the gauge when I install the slate gray interior.

Most of what I read stated that cooler EGTs mean slower flowing gasses for spooling up the turbo. Many guys wrap their exhausts to keep the heat in so things will flow faster. I wrapped things to lower the under hood temps for IATs more than to help the gasses flow faster, but flow is no problem since the piping goes from from 2.5" to 3" after the downpipe.

I'm not disappointed in my power and don't seem to have problematic heat issues. For that reason, I likely won't change things when I'm happy with the power and reliability of this package.

Years ago now, there was member who built a stroker to pair with his Banks Turbo...and ported things to add more flow. He later mocked himself for thinking he knew more than Gale Banks because Banks said their kit was built for a stock motor. He said that his stroker didn't perform well with the turbo, and he sold the turbo since he had just dropped $$$$ on the stroker. Bummer all the way around except for the member who now runs his turbo in the NE.

We know Jezza is running his turbo with a stroker. I haven't directly asked him if he'd suggest doing a turbo, stroker, or turbo'd stroker. That said, I wouldn't trust the 42RLE to stay happy with a turbo'd stroker. Would a manual hold up better?
 
Jezza likely knows a good amount about this topic. I believe he said something about a 300hp build being a good balance for power and reliability. He would know since he's been pushing things I haven't seen others push things.

Also, if you make a legit boosted stroker, you then need to address the transmission. The second I think about this, it reminds me to leave things alone...whether that's a stroker or a boosted 4.0L.

Turbos also scare people off due to the belief that it will make the engine unreliable, so I understand where you are coming from.



Over the winter, I read that currently offered lifters are pretty much all made in the same place these days. Not sure if it's true, but it wouldn't surprise me. Reviews aren't great on any of the brands RA carries.



I would have gone with the smaller cam as well if it meant my build would be more reliable. Is that why you went smaller? I assume that his disappointment was based on him thinking that if you go with a smaller cam, then why do some of the other stuff you chose.



My EGTs stay in a nice range, so I'll likely sell the gauge when I install the slate gray interior.

Most of what I read stated that cooler EGTs mean slower flowing gasses for spooling up the turbo. Many guys wrap their exhausts to keep the heat in so things will flow faster. I wrapped things to lower the under hood temps for IATs more than to help the gasses flow faster, but flow is no problem since the piping goes from from 2.5" to 3" after the downpipe.

I'm not disappointed in my power and don't seem to have problematic heat issues. For that reason, I likely won't change things when I'm happy with the power and reliability of this package.

Years ago now, there was member who built a stroker to pair with his Banks Turbo...and ported things to add more flow. He later mocked himself for thinking he knew more than Gale Banks because Banks said their kit was built for a stock motor. He said that his stroker didn't perform well with the turbo, and he sold the turbo since he had just dropped $$$$ on the stroker. Bummer all the way around except for the member who now runs his turbo in the NE.

We know Jezza is running his turbo with a stroker. I haven't directly asked him if he'd suggest doing a turbo, stroker, or turbo'd stroker. That said, I wouldn't trust the 42RLE to stay happy with a turbo'd stroker. Would a manual hold up better?

I went with a smaller cam for reliabilities sake and because i wanted lots of low end power. I wound up insisting on russ's smaller(but not as small as stock) custom ground nitrided cam because of cam failure worries. It still runs great,but I'll wonder what an LS valve head ported by russ and his largest cam are like until i do it!

I think a turbo would be awesome. If i hadn't had an extremely abused 4.0l with a warped head from overheating and mud in the engine i probably would have tried that instead.
I don't know anything about gasoline turbo motors and their egts. Only diesels and how a race tune needs the air to go with it or egts will melt heads and pistons. I need an eagle eye on egts when pushing it.

Transmission wise if you really wanted to get serious the dodge 727 can be used. Or the th400 from amc v8s(same bell pattern as the 6cyl) Then there are adapters for chevy and probably other bell patterns to use whatever auto or manual you want to shower with money,lol.

The choice for me to run a stroker was partially for emissions testing.if i really wanted high power I'd get a friend with a machine shop to help me build an LS with turbos.but then again i wouldn't put it in a tj...
 
I'll wonder what an LS valve head ported by russ and his largest cam are like until i do it!

This is the first time I’ve ever heard of this.

I think a turbo would be awesome. If i hadn't had an extremely abused 4.0l with a warped head from overheating and mud in the engine i probably would have tried that instead.

Dang, sorry to hear about the engine going down. How did you get mud in there?

I don't know anything about gasoline turbo motors and their egts. Only diesels and how a race tune needs the air to go with it or egts will melt heads and pistons. I need an eagle eye on egts when pushing it.

From what I read, they aren't as critical for gas engines and many/most gas folks don’t track egts. I tracked EGTs and the A/F ratio in order to ensure everything ran right and so I could learn.

Transmission wise if you really wanted to get serious the dodge 727 can be used. Or the th400 from amc v8s(same bell pattern as the 6cyl) Then there are adapters for chevy and probably other bell patterns to use whatever auto or manual you want to shower with money,lol.

I’m staying away from all of that talk lol. If someone like Jezza offered a turn key auto option like that then I’d consider it. But, I’ll be shocked if he ever offers something like that since he’s likely got better things to do.

The choice for me to run a stroker was partially for emissions testing.if i really wanted high power I'd get a friend with a machine shop to help me build an LS with turbos.but then again i wouldn't put it in a tj...

Yea, save that for a vehicle that can make more use of it. Imagine idling a 450 hp engine all day in 1st while scanning for mule deer.

The emissions aspect is a good reason for adding hidden stroker parts in order to get more power. That was a big reason that I was looking into them.
 
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I currently have one of Russ's kits sitting in my garage. It's going to be my winter project. I went with his nitrided cams. It's actually the comp cam designed for the eddy head and springs. I am probably going to go with a lighter spring though.
I probably should have asked Russ if he checks the cams for straightness after the process, which now has me a little worried.
When machine shops nitride a crank, they always check it afterwards.
Too bad no one makes a billet roller retrofit for the 4.0.