Metalcloak Duroflex control arms?

[mrblaine]

I was planning on getting new control arms to replace my X-flex R.C. arms. I don't know that I really need to as I haven't had any issue with them, but it is on the list. I was pretty set on Savvy arms or Currie arms, but I just watched Metalcloakd videos on the joints and I have to say they are impressive. I question the durability though.

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How do you like knowing that they start their videos off with an intentional lie and that's the misalignment angle of the Currie JJ? When they first hopped on JF, the first thing they said over and over is they weren't trying to compete with the Proven Currie Joint. What's one of the first things in the videos? A comparison to Currie. Which by the way is the wrong question. The question is NOT who has the most, the question is how much is needed? When is the last time you saw anyone say their travel was limited by a Currie JJ? If you don't know, I'll tell you. NEVER.

 

[mrblaine]

They introduced the joint in 2010.

I'm not sure I believe that.

 

[mrblaine]

Innovation and competition keeps all these companies designing the best products they can. In all my research into the Duroflex joint I found one thread on maybe Jeepforum where a DF had failed, and was promptly replaced by MetalCloak. They seem to stand behind their product, and if a fault is found, correct it promptly. Again my experience here is from numerous forums and FB groups. They've been around now since '09 and doing suspension parts since 2010, so hardly the new guy on the block. Not trying to come off as a fanboy here, since I have limited Jeeping time with their product. I could have easily gone with Curries solution and been just as happy. I have Curries Correctlync on my LJ now and its a stout and well built piece. I just don't understand where all the dislike of MC comes from here?

The dislike comes from all the bullshit they use to mislead the ignorant. Do you know why you don't use 4130 in a track bar? The cost is too high for the marginal increase in strength over normal 1018 or similar. Do you know why you use 4130 in a trackbar? You use it if you are trying to sucker in the ignorant by making it seem you have something that is cool that really isn't.

Do you know how to change the results on their shake table to get the exact results you are after? Just change the length of the connecting rod. Longer makes the impulse higher. Why isn't the stock bushing compared?

Why does misalignment angle matter if everyone else's joints have enough? It doesn't and the only way you can increase MA is to narrow the body or make it smaller in diameter and if you narrow the body, you reduce the bushing area if you decrease the diameter, you increase wear.

If you put the RE label on their trackbar, no one would buy it because it's the same RE bullshit that's been around forever. Put MC on it and somehow that makes a bushing at one end and a heim at the other special? Give me a break.

Do you know why they don't use a Duroflex joint in the trackbar like Currie does the JJ? Instant DW and the joint can't handle the constant travel.

Do I need to go on?

 

[JeepZilla380]

You can, and I appreciate the info, even if I’m somewhat lost. I’ll try to play along though.

Trackbar wise, if they are using 4130, and it’s stronger than 1018 or similar, MCs trackbar comes in at a lower price than most of the competition with great clearance at the diffs. Seems the top recommended trackbars across the forums are Currie, JKs and MC.

Misalignment wise, I loved the thread here on useable articulation. If MC has 4% more flex than a JJ, not sure that really falls into usable range. Again I’m not flexing as much as some of the rock crawlers do.

I’ll go see if I can Google up Gerald’s FB post. Should be entertaining. I will say I just installed Savvy’s 241 TC shifter and that might be the thing I’m most impressed with of my recent purchases.

Thanks for sharing!


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[Chris]

I emailed Matson from Metalcloak months ago. I asked him very politely what their reasoning was behind the crappy heim joint on the track bar. He read my message, got back to me to tell me he was sick and he'd get back to me when he was feeling better, but months past and I never heard back.

Maybe he just forgot, but given how many times I emailed him (I even PM'd him on this forum, which he is a member of), I'm assuming he just didn't want to explain it.

I'm still looking for an explanation as to why their front track bar uses a heim joint, which according to many has prematurely failed (typically with less than 10k miles on it).

Can you replace it easy enough? Sure. However, that doesn't change the fact that it seems to be a bad design to begin with.

 

[jjvw]

...

Trackbar wise, if they are using 4130, and it’s stronger than 1018 or similar, MCs trackbar comes in at a lower price than most of the competition with great clearance at the diffs. Seems the top recommended trackbars across the forums are Currie, JKs and MC.

Most of the recommendations for MC's track bar come from the reduced amount of required bump stop and the cost. That's what drew me in. I still say it is a good option for lower lifts requiring less than 2" if bump stop for things other than the track bar.

I may be wrong, but I recall there being some tricks to running the Currie TB with less than 2". If so, then cost becomes the only meaningful obstacle.

If MC used a better quality longer lasting rod end like FK, then the cost difference between them and Currie would diminish.

Misalignment wise, I loved the thread here on useable articulation. If MC has 4% more flex than a JJ, not sure that really falls into usable range. Again I’m not flexing as much as some of the rock crawlers do.

My rear suspension is near the reasonable limit of what stock axles and wheelbase can do. The JJ is not even close limiting the articulation. More would not be useful for anything.

I’ll go see if I can Google up Gerald’s FB post. Should be entertaining.
...

I'm no good at FB. It would be interesting to see that exchange.

2003 Rubicon

 

[JeepZilla380]

Most of the recommendations for MC's track bar come from the reduced amount of required bump stop and the cost. That's what drew me in. I still say it is a good option for lower lifts requiring less than 2" if bump stop for things other than the track bar.

I may be wrong, but I recall there being some tricks to running the Currie TB with less than 2". If so, then cost becomes the only meaningful obstacle.

If MC used a better quality longer lasting rod end like FK, then the cost difference between them and Currie would diminish.


My rear suspension is near the reasonable limit of what stock axles and wheelbase can do. The JJ is not even close limiting the articulation. More would not be useful for anything.



I'm no good at FB. It would be interesting to see that exchange.

2003 Rubicon

I was at 3 inches of lift when I added the MC trackbar a few years back, and at 3.5 now. When we adjusted the front trackbar the heim seemed just as tight as when we installed it, but I don’t put a ton of mileage or wear on my Jeep as I’d like to. Just googling now I still see this TB recommended a lot and plenty of threads on heim replacements. Also one claiming their is a Currie JJ that fits it too, didn’t see a price though. Something to watch over time I guess.

Still Googling for the Gerald post on FB, if I find a link I’ll post it up.




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[bobthetj03]

Was wondering if anyone has used these control arms, interesting concept.

Going to replace all my lower control arms and keep coming back to these.

I've had them on the front for 3 years.

 

[JeepZilla380]

I emailed Matson from Metalcloak months ago. I asked him very politely what their reasoning was behind the crappy heim joint on the track bar. He read my message, got back to me to tell me he was sick and he'd get back to me when he was feeling better, but months past and I never heard back.

Maybe he just forgot, but given how many times I emailed him (I even PM'd him on this forum, which he is a member of), I'm assuming he just didn't want to explain it.

I'm still looking for an explanation as to why their front track bar uses a heim joint, which according to many has prematurely failed (typically with less than 10k miles on it).

Can you replace it easy enough? Sure. However, that doesn't change the fact that it seems to be a bad design to begin with.

Might be an interesting question to ask over on their FB group, they seem to be pretty active there.


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[jjvw]

Mine is a daily and I'm one of those who discovered that the MC supplied heim was beginning to have slop at 10k miles. That was at least 10k miles ago. I haven't yet put in the free replacement.

I was told that this wear is not normal. My suspicion is that most don't know that it is happening because it isn't immediately noticable unless there is no load on the rod end. I found the slop while I was putting in new front control arms.

2003 Rubicon

 

[mrblaine]

You can, and I appreciate the info, even if I’m somewhat lost. I’ll try to play along though.

Trackbar wise, if they are using 4130, and it’s stronger than 1018 or similar, MCs trackbar comes in at a lower price than most of the competition with great clearance at the diffs. Seems the top recommended trackbars across the forums are Currie, JKs and MC.

The reason to use 4130 is if you are going to heat treat and get some serious toughness out of it. If you heat treat something, you brag to the world about it because of the expense and hassle it takes to do so. If you aren't going to heat treat it, the marginal increase in strength is not worth the not so marginal increase in cost. You only do it to fool folks that don't know any better. But again, if you put RE's name on it, it's the same ole same ole because at the end of the day, it's still a rod end on one end and a bushing on the other to keep it from flopping around.

We ordered a chassis kit for my helper. I know the engineer and when given the choice of 4130 or typical DOM, I asked him what I already knew, it is worth it if we aren't going the HT it and he said absolutely not.

 

[mrblaine]

Mine is a daily and I'm one of those who discovered that the MC supplied heim was beginning to have slop at 10k miles. That was at least 10k miles ago. I haven't yet put in the free replacement.

I was told that this is not normal. My suspicion is that most don't know that it is happening because it isn't immediately noticable unless there is no load on the rod end.

2003 Rubicon

As you said, unless you are tossing in a FK or similar at 50 bucks a pop, they wear and most don't catch it. It's like there is a gap in history that got forgotten. RE trackbars sucked for many reasons but the main one is you knew that you were going to replace the rod end, it was just a matter of time and someone else comes along with the same crap design and now it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

But all of that said, let's delve for a moment into what constitutes a suspension link and why the joints matter.
A suspension link is anything with a joint on each end that connects the axle to the chassis to control what the axle is doing under the rig. TJ's are 5 link set ups with 4 control arms and a track bar.

If you subscribe to the theory that there is a noticeable difference in NVH transmission between isolated and non isolated joints like the Currie and Rod Ends, and then you use that "theory" to promote your products as superior due to a squishy isolation element, how do you look your customers in the eye with a straight face and tell them they "need" your joint to have the best reduction of NVH possible and then use the exact opposite of your philosophy to construct a trackbar?

How?