I think it might be important to note your current relationship with MetalCloak and what abuse situation you put that joint in...
That's also a $5 part to swap out...
Metalcloak vs Currie / Savvy control arms
- Thread starter Farmergreg
- Start date
I think it might be important to note your current relationship with MetalCloak and what abuse situation you put that joint in...
That's also a $5 part to swap out...
No pissing contest here. Just keeping it real. JJ's are awesome sir!
For the record, the JJ pictured is 5 years old, has roughly 60k miles of 90% daily driver duty and 10% mild to moderate trail abuse. That was the right lower at the frame end. Not exactly sure what happened to cause the bushing half to wad up like that. That was the only problem I've had with them. Otherwise the JJ's worked like a champ, and surely would go another 60k miles of trouble free service.
Oh, and the new bushing kit, washers and snap ring was $22. If you're going to replace one 5 year old bushing half, you might as well replace the other bushing half too, right?
I'm a Jonny Joint guy. Mine probably have 30k miles with one greasing early on. They are still quiet and tight.
I don't believe there is any perceptable difference in ride quality between the two. JJ are more robust by their very design.
I don't believe there is any perceptable difference in ride quality between the two. JJ are more robust by their very design.
OP
Nothing is bulletproof, The phrase : "He could knock the horn off an anvil with a pillow" comes to mind!
Good discussion here.
I was worried about road feedback and learned that they're both joints are similar.
Also thought JJ's might need to be greased frequently such as everytime you crossed water.
No doubt the JJ is the proven design.
Real,question.
Are JJs DOT approves in all states?
I though I had read someplace they were not.
I have no idea though, thought I’d ask.
Are JJs DOT approves in all states?
I though I had read someplace they were not.
I have no idea though, thought I’d ask.
What would the DOT have to do with JJ's? The only issue I could fathom is local ordinances regarding modified vehicles.
I thought I read the DOT specified No heim style joints on highway vehicles. I could be mistaken.
Total failure of a heim type joint could be catastrophic.
Total failure of a heim type joint could be catastrophic.
Never heard of it personally. Surely if that was the case it would be all over the interwebz.
Johnny Joints are not Heim joints.
Heims are metal to metal with some having nothing more than a thin teflon coating inside. There's nothing inside a Heim joint to absorb shock and vibration because, again, they are metal to metal. Heims are not rebuildable either... once they develop wear they must be replaced.
Totally different animals.
Here's one good writeup from www.claytonoffroad.com...
"Johnny Joints
Heims are metal to metal with some having nothing more than a thin teflon coating inside. There's nothing inside a Heim joint to absorb shock and vibration because, again, they are metal to metal. Heims are not rebuildable either... once they develop wear they must be replaced.
Totally different animals.
Here's one good writeup from www.claytonoffroad.com...
"Johnny Joints
- Hands down these are the most reliable articulating joints on the market and provide years of service with minor maintenance. Service parts are readily available, fairly inexpensive, about $8 per joint and only require a set of snap ring pliers and a vice to change. The advantages of a Johnny joint vs. a heim joint are in its actual design. A heim joint has a metal outer race, usually some sort of Teflon coating, and then a metal spherical center ball. First problem is when a heim joint wears out, you have to replace the entire heim joint which is much more costly then simply rebuilding the joint at $8 a piece. Second problem is that heim joints don’t come with any grease fittings. They rely on that Teflon coating, and once that wears out and starts to squeak, there is not much you can do. A Johnny joint comes with a grease fitting, which allows you to grease the joint eliminating any squeaks or noises. And most importantly a heim joint doesn’t absorb any impact. It is metal on metal, so any bump in the road, or bolder field offroad, you are going to feel more of the impact. A johnny joint is similar however that metal spherical ball is encased in a high density "tough 88" urethane that allows for some give."
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For what it's worth, Heim joints are used extensively in the street rod world. There are quite a few manufacturers selling them, and in 30+ years of reading street rod type magazines, I have never once read anything regarding Heim joints not being 50-state legal (or all 57 states, if you're Barrack Obama...).
I definitely have many times. The DOT doesn't care but there are states that will fail a vehicle in a safety inspection if it has heim joints in some locations like the steering system.
Kind of like beadlock wheels. The DOT doesn't approve or certify wheels, they simply don't care about bead lock wheels, they are fine with them. But some states including Utah and New Jersey have laws on the books that specifically ban beadlocks. Fortunately they're legal in most states including where I live.
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Hmmm...Well, if you have read it, then I stand corrected. Perhaps I've read stuff on rear suspensions, then? I honestly don't know how I would have missed that. Maybe the ads and such stated the DOT approval, and that's where I surmised its legality, not considering the exact application.
Anyway, thanks for setting me straight on that. I'm going to read up on that, now. You've piqued my interest...
"Rod end bearings (heim joints) are used all over your chassis, steering and suspension. Common uses include control rods, steering linkage, and tie rods. With so many different uses, it's no wonder Speedway Motors stocks a huge supply of heim joints for race cars or street cars. Whether you're looking for aluminum or chromoly, male or female, we can help by providing rod end bearings from the biggest names in the business, like AFCO Rod Ends, QA1 Rod Ends, Rod End Supply, and FK Rod Ends. Check out our Heim Joint Buyer's Guide if you need help selecting the right heim for the job."
Regarding Heim joints:
The above is an ad from one of the largest distributers of street rod parts around. Things like this could easily lead someone (such as myself, sadly) down the wrong path as to where they can be used. Once @Jerry Bransford pointed out his observations, I looked into it. It would seem that there are states where their use is illegal in certain applications. Living in a state that does not do safety inspections, I have never experienced it, nor was I even aware of it. Turns out that if I pull up the actual product description, some do have a disclaimer regarding this very issue. Hmmm...
Interestingly enough, when I searched for information on the matter, most everything I came up with related to off-roading and 4X4 applications, versus street use. I had to delve quite deeply into it before finding a street rod article on the subject. Now, maybe that has something to do with my recent history of searches on my computer (I don't know how such things work), or maybe the street rod world dodges the issue, somehow? I would think the latter unlikely, but as this entire subject has pointed out, I've been wrong before! :facepalm:
Anyway, I just wanted to share this with anyone who cares. I do appreciate learning something new, even if it means I was wrong about what I thought I knew.
Regarding Heim joints:
The above is an ad from one of the largest distributers of street rod parts around. Things like this could easily lead someone (such as myself, sadly) down the wrong path as to where they can be used. Once @Jerry Bransford pointed out his observations, I looked into it. It would seem that there are states where their use is illegal in certain applications. Living in a state that does not do safety inspections, I have never experienced it, nor was I even aware of it. Turns out that if I pull up the actual product description, some do have a disclaimer regarding this very issue. Hmmm...
Interestingly enough, when I searched for information on the matter, most everything I came up with related to off-roading and 4X4 applications, versus street use. I had to delve quite deeply into it before finding a street rod article on the subject. Now, maybe that has something to do with my recent history of searches on my computer (I don't know how such things work), or maybe the street rod world dodges the issue, somehow? I would think the latter unlikely, but as this entire subject has pointed out, I've been wrong before! :facepalm:
Anyway, I just wanted to share this with anyone who cares. I do appreciate learning something new, even if it means I was wrong about what I thought I knew.
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@Jerry Bransford — always the best pitch-man — makes me wish I had actually given you those fenders you asked for back in 2009.
As I've stated before, on many different forums, Currie is an outstanding company — without legacy companies like Currie out there making quality products, there wouldn't be an industry that companies like ours get to enjoy — the Duroflex Joint just represents a new way of looking at Flex Joints... a way that (we like to think ;-) inspired several other manufacturers to evolve their joint designs or concepts... namely, that you can have all the flex while also absorbing all the thousands of micro-vibrations that physically wear down the moving parts of a typical ball and cup style flex joint... the same wear that becomes the source of most NVH issues.
Either way, Currie or Metalcloak, you will enjoy your choice. BTW, Jerry is right about the double adjustable option. I am personally a "set it and forget it" type of guy. I first put on the TJ Single Adjustable Duroflex Short Arms on my personal '98 Sport back in '13 and haven't touched them since. :thumbup:
Just for the record... there is no "relationship" between MetalCloak and @bobthetj03... he is simply a long time customer that I appreciated chatting with so decided to send him the new Duroflex Bushings to upgrade the arms that he currently has 30,000+ miles on.
There is no agreement or any quid-pro-quo — I never requested that he do any posting about the product with the community. Anything he chooses to share about his experience with the Duroflex Kevlar bushings is purely based on his personal desire to share with this outstanding group of enthusiasts. :thumbup:
Thank you! I'm just a dude, posing as another dude who cares, pretending to be a dude that knows something, but really is another dude that doesn't know shit. Right @Rob5589?
ErikOffroad
TJ Enthusiast
I’m bringing back this old thread because I’m in the market for control arms. I know that control arms can be set and forget, but im being in the process of building my Jeep. I would have them set once for the original install. I would have to reset them again after I do a sye and tummy tuck. I would also have to reset them one last time if I go from a 3 inch spring to a 4 inch spring. The price being not too much apart would a aluminum double adjustable control arm be worth the extra money. Also i was interested in hearing how people liked the metalCloak arms being 7 months later since the last installment on this thread.
I guess my interests would be the metalCloak aluminum ones vs. savvy aluminum ones vs. metalCloak original or the ones from Currie.
I guess my interests would be the metalCloak aluminum ones vs. savvy aluminum ones vs. metalCloak original or the ones from Currie.
Yep, double adjustables for the uppers for sure would be worth it.
Savvy aluminum with the JJ's can't be beat.
MC with duroflex, the jury is still out.
This gets to be a debate sometimes, but I think I've properly caricatured it. I personally wouldn't hesitate on the MC if I found them for a rock bottom deal, but I'd prefer Savvy
Just came across this thread again and thought I'd put in this slightly off topic word of warning. I just placed an order for 8 new currie control arms today to replace my 3 year old, 34,000 mile ones. Would've gone with Savvy arms but unfortunately they're busy with KOH and I don't have time to wait the typical Savvy shipping times. Here are the two issues that I ran into with my Currie arms.
Firstly, my adjustable arms weren't assembled with anti seize and are almost completely locked up. They can't be adjusted anymore. This is not Currie fault. Just make sure to assemble with plenty of anti seize. My Jeep hasn't seen any salt in the time since my arms were installed but it has seen a lot of wet winter roads (they don't use salt in Wyoming) and water holes (I try to stay out of mud as much as possible). Seems like that was enough to lock them up.
Secondly, my Johnny Joints are pretty much locked up as well. Unfortunately I listened to the hype about Johnny Joints not needing much grease instead of using an ounce of critical thinking. I only greased them 3 times in the past three years. Don't think that you can get by greasing them every once in a while. They need grease regularly (every time you go off-road and at every oil change).
That being said I'm replacing my locked up Currie arms with the same exact Currie arms. I still think the arms are a great product but they need to be assembled correctly and taken care of regularly in order for them to last (that can be said for any arm you purchase).
Firstly, my adjustable arms weren't assembled with anti seize and are almost completely locked up. They can't be adjusted anymore. This is not Currie fault. Just make sure to assemble with plenty of anti seize. My Jeep hasn't seen any salt in the time since my arms were installed but it has seen a lot of wet winter roads (they don't use salt in Wyoming) and water holes (I try to stay out of mud as much as possible). Seems like that was enough to lock them up.
Secondly, my Johnny Joints are pretty much locked up as well. Unfortunately I listened to the hype about Johnny Joints not needing much grease instead of using an ounce of critical thinking. I only greased them 3 times in the past three years. Don't think that you can get by greasing them every once in a while. They need grease regularly (every time you go off-road and at every oil change).
That being said I'm replacing my locked up Currie arms with the same exact Currie arms. I still think the arms are a great product but they need to be assembled correctly and taken care of regularly in order for them to last (that can be said for any arm you purchase).