Nashville TJ's Build - Continued

[NashvilleTJ]

I would be interested in hearing your take on buying an off the shelf axle like the Dynatrac ProRoc HP60 to building a junkyard axle after you are finished. I am not looking at it from an "enjoyment" perspective, because some of us just like working in the shop and building an axle is just another project n the shop that gives us something to do (working in the garage keeps me out of the kitchen where I eat everything in the pantry). But more from a value perspective. Not sure how to define value; cost is definitely part of it, but so is final product (comparison of overall strength, overall final clearance obtained, etc...), I would say that availability of parts during and after build would also be a factor.

From reading your build you would have to do all the custom brackets yourself anyway, nothing would be bolt in. But at one time it appears that you did go off the shelf with the Dynatrac, then modded off the shelf, and now are building from junkyard. Think it would be a good perspective to hear. I will most likely be in the market to upgrade my axles in the future and while building my own axles appeals to my "want" to build my own, I also don't want to end up with a big oil tank that not only gets caught on everything but also cost me twice as much and I can't find parts for down the road.

I can give some perspective on that already. One downside to Dynatrac that has hit me before - and is hitting me now - is their use of proprietary parts. The Golden Seal was a good example of that. Now I'm looking at swapping the front rotors to go to 8 lug, and I called them to ask what rotors they use. What they told me is that they build them themselves (no idea if this is true), and I could get them from them for $370 each. A stock rotor off a 1 ton is about $175. My guess is that they use an off the shelf unit, but won't share that info. I'll also need a couple of brackets from them and new cylinders to make everything work, which are also overpriced. But, that is part of the price you pay for the convenience.

I've also had problems getting replacement shafts from them in the past. I've bent two shafts and broken one. A few years ago I broke the chromo shaft I originally got from them, but when I called to get a replacement it was something like $1300 and was going to take 6-8 weeks to get it. It also took almost two weeks to get that answer as I recall. I bought a chromo replacement from ECGS for about $250.

All that having been said, I was very close to pulling the trigger on their new HD60, which would have been close to 8 grand. For me it's not so much about the money (I'm well into six figures in parts on this thing as it sits), but I do enjoy a good project. On the 14 bolt the only thing I'm using from the junkyard is the housing - everything else is getting replaced so it's not a budget build by any means. I'll be at about 4 grand just for the axle when all is said and done. But like you, I enjoy being in the shop. More than that, I take a lot of pride in building things myself. Honestly, for that reason a small part of me has always regretted buying the ProRocks as opposed to building them myself - so maybe I'm playing a little catch up.

One very good thing about the Dynatrac will be its resale value when I sell the thing. The name does add value there.

At the end of the day, I think the shaved 14 bolt with the milled ring gear is only going to give up about a 1/2" in clearance to the Pro-Roc. On 40's I'm good with that. It will also be a good bit stronger, and will hopefully hold up better behind all the ponies. And, it'll be fun. I'm already enjoying the project. We shall see if that lasts...

 

[Wildman]

For me the the BIG reason I went with a HP axle in the rear was for driveline angle. With a LJ you're already a little ahead in driveline length and yours is even longer. But just like you if I continue to break my HP60 I'll have to look at other choices so I'm glad you're doing this build now so I'll have something to copy when or if I get to this point.

Keep it up and I look forward to watching this axle build progress.

 

[gasiorv]

Yeah, I have the same thought with the HP for my TJ when I do upgrade. With his extended wheelbase, he doesn't have the same driveline issues and that stretch not only improves the departure angle and drop off it sure makes that LJ look sweet!

 

[Wildman]

Yeah, I have the same thought with the HP for my TJ when I do upgrade. With his extended wheelbase, he doesn't have the same driveline issues and that stretch not only improves the departure angle and drop off it sure makes that LJ look sweet!

Yes the stretch he did to his LJ makes it look AWESOME and even better with the 40" tires.

I've broken 2 ring gears in my HP60 already once on 35" tires and the second time on 38" tires and that was with a stock 5.2 V-8 so I'm a little worried about how it'll handle the power of my 6.7 V-8 and 37" tires.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Posted this many times elsewhere, but this is what a supercharged I-6, 5.44-1 TCase, and 5.38's does to a dana 60 1.5" chromo semi-float axle shaft...

 

[gasiorv]

I have never seen a shaft sheer that clean. For me, i am happy with the I-6 and don't ever see me looking for more horsepower (of course, never say never). Even when I was a kid and had CJ-5s I preferred the 258 I-6 over the 304 or 360 V8's. I actually wrecked one CJ5 with the 258 and bought another with the 304 and swapped the engines before I ever drove it.

I do love the sound of a nicely tuned V8 though, there is nothing better than that sound. My neighbors wife has a mustang which has been upgraded and has an aftermarket exhaust and I get up to the sound of her leaving every morning. It's actually a manual and she gets on it. Best alarm clock ever!!

 

[NashvilleTJ]

I have never seen a shaft sheer that clean. For me, i am happy with the I-6 and don't ever see me looking for more horsepower (of course, never say never). Even when I was a kid and had CJ-5s I preferred the 258 I-6 over the 304 or 360 V8's. I actually wrecked one CJ5 with the 258 and bought another with the 304 and swapped the engines before I ever drove it.

I do love the sound of a nicely tuned V8 though, there is nothing better than that sound. My neighbors wife has a mustang which has been upgraded and has an aftermarket exhaust and I get up to the sound of her leaving every morning. It's actually a manual and she gets on it. Best alarm clock ever!!

I loved that SC I-6. Most reliable, powerful engine ever. I sometimes regret swapping it out, because the big Hemi can be a little more temperamental at times. But it sure is fun having all that power. And it definitely sounds better.

I often thought that there must have been a flaw in that shaft. Blaine once said it looked like the heat treating was not very deep, but it did break right where it was supposed to - at the necked down diameter right at the splines. It sounded like a rifle when it went off.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Well, I'm running into a wall on the brakes for the 14 bolt - specifically the parking brakes. When I started researching the 14 bolt, it looked like there were a lot of options for drum brake conversions. You may recall that I selected a 99+ version because it had the ribbed case, 3 1/2" tubes and a larger straddle bearing. Well it turned out the only bolt on parking brake solution for that axle is the Eldo calipers with the built in e-brake - and that's not a great solution from everything I'm reading. Still a fallback as a last resort.

I also was not looking specifically for a disk brake 14bolt because the brakes on the one-ton axles are huge and heavy, and would likely overwhelm the front brakes - even with a proportioning valve (at least that was my understanding). Since I figured I'd be swapping the brakes anyway drums were fine, and available.

I'd still like to find a decent drum in hat e-brake option, and I've read that you can get that disk brake setup out of a 2003+ 2500HD Chevy or GMC that may work with a custom bracket. So tomorrow I'm heading back to the salvage yard to take a look at a 2003 2500HD pickup that I found.

Maybe I should have just bought the damn XD60. Oh well, I wanted a project...

 

[Wildman]

Bummer on the brakes. Have you looked at Wilwood? I don't know that they have anything that will work. What about this?

Wilwood Disc Brakes - Forged Dynalite Rear Electronic Parking Brake Kit

 

[Wildman]

Here is a parts list a guy on Pirate used on his 14 Bolt where he used Dodge parts to get a good parking brake system.

1-ton fat ass | Pirate 4x4

 

[Wildman]

BillaVista has some tech on the 14 Bolt

BillaVista.com - Offroad & 4X4 Tech Articles by BillaVista

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Thanks for the info, Rick. I have seen those - and I've digested everything 14 bolt related on BIllaVista's site. I also put together a parts list similar to the one above, but I needed to make sure they would work on the axle I have....

 

[NashvilleTJ]

...So this morning I went and looked at a 2003 2500HD to see if the brake setup would work on the axle I have. The answer was not without cutting off the old mount and building a new custom mount. The mounts for the disk setups are much larger, and in fact are actually crazy beefy:

I've learned a lot about the different versions of the 14 bolt since starting this journey. In addition to the parking brake fiasco, I also learned that the 14 bolts with the slide over drum (the version I originally picked up) is a 65" WMS. Everything I read prior to that said there were only three stock versions: 63", 67", and 70". I was really wanting to do the 67" WMS to match the front - another bit of learning.

So I bought the whole damned axle. 3/4 ton brakes and 67" WMS. Fortunately, I brought along some muscle. That's my son Brady.

Here we go again.

 

[Wildman]

Thanks for the info, Rick. I have seen those - and I've digested everything 14 bolt related on BIllaVista's site. I also put together a parts list similar to the one above, but I needed to make sure they would work on the axle I have....

I figured you had but on the chance you hadn't I figured I'd link them. And the gear setup info on Vista's site was good stuff.

So what year and donor rig is this new axle from?

 

[NashvilleTJ]

I figured you had but on the chance you hadn't I figured I'd link them. And the gear setup info on Vista's site was good stuff.

So what year and donor rig is this new axle from?

2003 Chevy Silverado 2500HD.

 

[Wildman]

So this one came stock with disc brakes. What else it different between it and the other one you purchased?

 

[NashvilleTJ]

So this one came stock with disc brakes. What else it different between it and the other one you purchased?

Other than the mounting bracket for the brakes, and being a little wider, everything else looks the same.

 

[Wildman]

Other than the mounting bracket for the brakes, and being a little wider, everything else looks the same.

So does this solve your brake problems with this? Are these stock brakes going to work or do you have to do something else to them to make them work?

 

[NashvilleTJ]

So does this solve your brake problems with this? Are these stock brakes going to work or do you have to do something else to them to make them work?

If I use these brakes, I think I’ll likely have to use a proportioning valve to keep a good front / rear balance - but I’m learning as I go along here. I’m likely replacing the front calipers as well when I replace the front rotors, and if I do that I will probably go much bigger which should help with the balance. ‘Course, that may create the need for a new master cylinder.

Snowball, snowball, snowball...

 

[Wildman]

Well I guess the one GOOD thing is that they work SO good you need a proportioning valve.